What about a few S-K cruise missile strikes?

And about how long it would take the S-K strike teams to arrive: How long does it take a Lone Star FRT or Ares Firewatch team to arrive? Lofwyr's got the resources to go and hire a few of those on short notice.

Apparently, to kill a dragon, elect him.

Can't think of a lot of dragons that try to get elected as CEO. Most apparently just walk in and magically own the place, and kick ya' out of the CEO spot without so much as a 'How do you do?'

Not exactly, it involves buying up 50.01% of voting stock before walking in. Then, no one can oppose the claim of CEO and chairdragon.

If i remember correctly, Lofwyr decided that .01% wasn't slap-in-the-face enough, and did it with a full on 60%

and the payment was i cash, right?
iirc, one big lump of gold...

nah, he spent twenty years quietly buying up stock and playing the investor game, using a chunk of his hoarded gold as initial cash. People like to comment that he used a straight chunk of his hoard to buy the stocks wholesale, but that doesn't really make sense, this isn't the nanosecond buyout here, that much stock shifting that fast would have been noticed, and probably countered by Wilhelmina and her friends, making it an epic struggle for control of the corp. Instead, Lofwyr just walked in one day, to the surprise of everyone, and declared himself king and chairdragon. Nobody knew how much he owned until he told them, that kind of secrecy takes time and careful planning, not some grand, gold-filled gesture (though i wouldn't put that last beyond Lofwyr if he felt it served his purposes better).

So, what are the stats for Dragons like in SR4?

The same.

Wait, so they changed the whole system, but left stats the same?
Dragons have quickness instead of agility and reaction?

Ha ha! Ok, similar

So really, they got a bit of a boost as far as SR4's generally lower attributes are concerned.

Right, they are more powerful than ever.

The way I see it, dragons and other immortals are significantly less powerful than in SR3 since the new edition took away karma pool, their universal get out of jail free card.

Wow, good point. You have just dealt a great blow to the "OMG DRAGONS ARE UNKILLABLE AND THIS IS WHY!" crowd.

Uh, they may have removed the karma pool, but they added in the "you're fucked clause."

Rolled a bunch of successes when attacking a dragon? Whoopsie-doodle, the great dragon just used his special ability to make you reroll all those successes.

Sure he used edge, and he only has a finite amount of it... but are you going to live long enough to watch him run out of edge? Probably not.

Sigh, I miss the good old days of completely arbitrary threat ratings.

Player: "No, I'm asking how many dice you're gonna roll."

Gm: "And I'm asking you how many we got!"

The way I see it a Great Dragon is an enemy that should be impossible to kill for groups of PCs. It is unfluffy.

Killing Adult Dragons is a different story. It could be done. With a lot of carefull and secret planning. And unconventional thinking. The direct approach will most likely not work. Because the Dragon will be prepared for it. One thing can't be represented by the rules: All Dragons are creatures of great cunning. They survived millenias. Most of them have a whole fragging lot of experience with stupid people wanting to kill them. They survived. Every single wannabe dragonslayer of the past. Actually they had an appointment for dinner with a lot of these guys...

Yes, but things change. It is one thing to deal with a pesky knight and similar stuff, but a whole different thing to deal with modern technology, or even the the SR4 tech. Or just some old-fashioned massive explosion.
IMHO, the only thing keeping Dragons alive are their helpers and ressources - stats don't matter when the entire building gets vaporised, f.e.

A pesky knight that was able to use magical powers that were much stronger than everything seen in the sixth world. Powerfull spellcasters in the times of the last scourge have been absolutely able to use powers similar to modern day weapons of mass destruction. An archer-adept's arrows are not less dangerous to a dragon than an AA missile.

It's not like "pesky knight" in Earthdawn meant "delusional Catholic minor nobility," like it does IRL. Take a look at some high-Circle ED stuff, and you'll see the sort of power these half-assed Adepts and spellcasters in Shadowrun have dreams about.

All I can remember about Warrior adepts was that they could turn their skin into bark at Circle 1, and they were good at fighting.

Absolutely. ED was near the high peak of the magic flow, so the adepts/spellcasters wher able to do things and develop talents/spells that are impossible in the 6th world (but will be one day, when the magic flow is high enough). Just think of spells like "city in a bottle" or "call forth the army of decay" or random talents above 10th circle.

Oh yes. My group's players always cry out in pain when they remember the end of our Barsaive at War campaign. My Nethermancer used the situation to his absolute benefit. ^^ First I arranged the battle at sky point to cause massive numbers of unnecessary deaths. And after that I used my freshly summoned army of decay to support queen Twiceborn and her horror masters, turning Barsaive from Skypoint to Throal in a kingdom of the dead.

Dragons live in a much safer world by now.

That comes close to our nethermancer's wet dream. Luckily he was killed by a theran cavalry charge some months before the battle of Triumph.

I played ED. Compared to modern contemporary weapons of mass destruction - not some AA missile - those are small fry.

120mm MBT cannon shooting penetrators or HEAT.

A tanker full of home-made explosives, Oklahoma-Style.

A passenger/freight airliner with a full tank on a collision course with a building. Augmented with explosives if neccessary.

FAE bombs.

Thor Shots.

Tac-Nukes.

Strategic Nukes.

Nanoviruses and similar bio/chemical agents.

IMHO, Earthdawn simply doesn't compare. Nice stuff for fantasy adventures pitting heroes against the big bad monsters - but limited by the typical fantasy conventions which allow Big Bad Monsters at all.

(hyperbole) Want to get rid of Dragons? "Discover" that Dragon heart/brain enhances potency. Dragons will show up on endangered species lists faster than rich people all over the world can call their favorite suppliers (/hyperbole)

Dragon parts are of much greater worth, because they are sought for as components for enchanting.

yeah but how many people can do enchanting vs. how many people want a stronger... err... organ.

When it comes to increasing potency it is cheaper, easier, and safer just to bathe in some radioactive waste.

Yeah, but woulden't a penile enhancer that could (authentically) label itself with the face of a Great Dragon be worth even more to rich impotents who're too stupid to get a Mr. Studd?

"Power of Loftwyr!"

Hate to derail, but does anybody have a guess at the essence cost of a Mr. Studd?

I told my player it was 5.9...it is afterall, his manhood he's replacing.

*smacks forehead against workdesk... repeatedly*
Oh boy, the thread is going into that direction again...

You know, it just hit me... Why not just make it a chargen SURGE choice that dosen't cost BP. Because it's neither flaw nor edge, just a combinant of gender.

I had a player take a 1 point flaw for a tiny one, came up with the idea himself of all things too.

Then of course, everybody starts asking about the "edge" version....

The Edge version? That'd be worth the BP.

The edge version would be the same but involves the character's girlfriend goblinizing into a windling.

Windling?

Earthdawn reference. You'd love 'em.

Man, they sound funny. If you can inflict them on your opposition.

Still, all you'd need is a light dusting of FAB III to handle that pest problem, assuming they're Dual-Natured.

No, they are not. They have natural vision to astral space, though. But not permanent.

Well, damn. That sucks.

However, we can be sure of one thing. A 50 cm tall creature is going to be extremely vulnerable to the smog and stuff that makes humans want to buy respirators for when they want to go outside. So you won't have to worry about them in the sprawl.