Full Version: Wireless money laundering.
I'm just wondering; could a hacker gang just open a bunch of average joes' comlinks in any area and just funnel money through about 500 different certified accounts and destroy the paper trail that way? It seems that with comlinks doubling as credsticks, it makes shadow brokerage that much easier.
There's still be a data trail, but it'd be harder to track since you'd have to go through all the sytems. that usually requires permission of some sort from half those places. If you can delete the data trails, or most however, that would definitely help.
You're gonna need some inside bankers I would think though. someone that could 'alter' the trails or otherwise. That, or at some point you gotta do the 'public virtual running' where you raid the system, alter what you want, then get the heck out while pissing the bank off. As long as you get rid of the trails behind you, getting away is legit.
Just make sure you delete the trail to the money too, or else they'll just hunt around for you that way.
You're gonna need some inside bankers I would think though. someone that could 'alter' the trails or otherwise. That, or at some point you gotta do the 'public virtual running' where you raid the system, alter what you want, then get the heck out while pissing the bank off. As long as you get rid of the trails behind you, getting away is legit.
Just make sure you delete the trail to the money too, or else they'll just hunt around for you that way.
well, no. that's a hell of a lot of bank errors--those 500 joes are going to look at their finance records the next day and be like "why did i this other joe send me a hundred thousand nuyen? and when did i transfer that same amount to a completely different joe, who i've never met?" that's like trying to sneak past someone by painting yourself red and lighting your hair on fire.
IŽd agree with mfb, so what would that infiltration roll have as modifires?
| QUOTE (MK Ultra) |
| IŽd agree with mfb, so what would that infiltration roll have as modifires? |
-100 (dumassedness)?
maybe the pc has no other chance. could have been sprayed and inflamed by the securitydrones and now has to sneak past the sec guard thatŽll shoot him on sight no questions asked! 
bear in mind you can also alter the datatrail of the commlink, so insted of saying "Why the hell did I give 5k to Mary Johnson" THey'll go "What!? When did I buy 300 pairs of shoes!?" THat's part of the altering process - hiding 'where' things went.
That's why having someone inside the banking system would probably be recommended. that way, even with the chaos, you mgiht be able to still hide where it went, or else you can modify things on the go.
Probably better to make cert-credsticks this way however, find a way to spoof it to make small cards through the net, etc, etc.
Your other problem is going to be when the system prompts the person they they just deducted funs. I bet quite a few would have that setting on their accounts.
....I think the only laundering you'll be doing is robbing the banks. >.<
That's why having someone inside the banking system would probably be recommended. that way, even with the chaos, you mgiht be able to still hide where it went, or else you can modify things on the go.
Probably better to make cert-credsticks this way however, find a way to spoof it to make small cards through the net, etc, etc.
Your other problem is going to be when the system prompts the person they they just deducted funs. I bet quite a few would have that setting on their accounts.
....I think the only laundering you'll be doing is robbing the banks. >.<
| QUOTE |
| that's like trying to sneak past someone by painting yourself red and lighting your hair on fire. |
Do you mean that normal money laundering involves manipulation by the actual bankers and doesn't actually involve simple multiple funnelings of money?
a bank is, generally, the worst place to try and launder money. i mean, the whole purpose of a bank is to keep track of money; money laundering through one is like trying to hold up a gun store.
the point of laundering money is to make it appear to have come from a legitimate source that cannot be further backtraced. if you receive $200,000 from Joe Blow, you'd better have an apparently-legitimate reason for receiving that money--and Joe Blow had better know about it, and have a legitimate reason for having that $200k in the first place.
the point of laundering money is to make it appear to have come from a legitimate source that cannot be further backtraced. if you receive $200,000 from Joe Blow, you'd better have an apparently-legitimate reason for receiving that money--and Joe Blow had better know about it, and have a legitimate reason for having that $200k in the first place.
So where the hell DO you launder money?
| QUOTE (emo samurai) |
| So where the hell DO you launder money? |
At the laundrymat ofcourse...duh...
| QUOTE (emo samurai) |
| So where the hell DO you launder money? |
Ask the mob.
| QUOTE (BlackHat) | ||
Ask the mob. |
Politely.
Ah, it was so much easyer, back when you could all your moneylaundering have taken care of by the MIB (not Will Smith, that is 
dumb joke forget it).
dumb joke forget it).
well, here's a money-laundering scheme that probably hasn't been tapped yet: ebaying non-existant items MMOs. first, you set up a fake ebay account. then, you open up your ebay account and put up your Sword +1 up for sale. the fake ebay account bids heavily on the item--heavily enough that it's sure to win, but not so heavily as to draw any major attention. the bid goes through, and voila--clean money. the buyer is fake, so the trail is dead.
YOur only fear there is one of those ecclectic bidders that absolutely has to have a Limited Edition, one of a kind piece of Star Wars paraphenalia (or however you spell it).
But yes, that'd be a wonderful way of doing some laundering.
But yes, that'd be a wonderful way of doing some laundering.
Just offer an item nobody possibly wants. Thinking about it, all that trash offered and sold on ebay are probably moneylaundering operations 
.
.
| QUOTE (MK Ultra) |
| Just offer an item nobody possibly wants. |
Give me an example of an item that nobody possibly wants.
Considering the wide range of mental and emotional dysfunction, combined with alcohol, and my generally low opinion of my fellow man, I can't think of a single thing, no matter how commonplace, obscure, or downright depraved that someone might not possibly want.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) | ||
Give me an example of an item that nobody possibly wants. Considering the wide range of mental and emotional dysfunction, combined with alcohol, and my generally low opinion of my fellow man, I can't think of a single thing, no matter how commonplace, obscure, or downright depraved that someone might not possibly want. |
Ah, yes, your probably right, as I said I shake my head whenever I think about the stuff that goes on ebay. But youd probably lower the possibility of interfearing bids, by offering your worn out flats well over market value.
There are plenty of things so lame no one will buy them, and some so outrageous that people will pay good money for them. Jay Leno has a whole segment every month or so of crazy crap on eBay, half of which never has any bids.
So, what would that be i.e.? (just curious)
a better idea would be to simply post a very common item, and then just outbid everyone else. that'd actually be better; a long series of ebay auctions on which there is only one buyer--who pays tens of thousands of dollars for the item every time--is going to be suspicious. an item with lots of bidders, and one crazy guy who outbids everyone else by 20%, is not so remarkable.
| QUOTE |
| well, here's a money-laundering scheme that probably hasn't been tapped yet: |
If it has been, it probably won't be found out.
yes, the foolish authorities are looking in the wrong place completely to find the laundering scheme i use to fund my ninja assas--er, this is all a hypothetical example.
| QUOTE (emo samurai @ Feb 3 2006, 09:50 PM) |
| I'm just wondering; could a hacker gang just open a bunch of average joes' comlinks in any area and just funnel money through about 500 different certified accounts and destroy the paper trail that way? |
As said, it will just complicate the trails - but yes, done right is a nice way to make money... given much time.
Keep in mind that when using such schemes, negligible amounts of cash work best...
so 20.000 100:y: transfers, preferably bounced between about 100 diffrent accounts in diffrent tax havens, and then slowly filtering down into a lower number of accounts until its spread over about 5-10...
maybe have them merge and then split back up at times to
hmm, have a agent who have only one job, moving money back and forth based on a algorithm. then its all a matter of having some way to figure out what account the money is on when you need them maybe hidden on a quote of the day node? if this node is up, then that account is the one to use for the next hour and half and so on...
good luck tracking the money down
maybe have them merge and then split back up at times to
hmm, have a agent who have only one job, moving money back and forth based on a algorithm. then its all a matter of having some way to figure out what account the money is on when you need them
maybe hidden on a quote of the day node? if this node is up, then that account is the one to use for the next hour and half and so on...good luck tracking the money down
What you just said was what I was thinking about; salami slicing it in a mall or something, adding and subtracting fractions of a nuyen at a time to the myriad transactions taking place maybe about 500 times for each 25 cents worth of money and then moving it to a second comlink that I own after each person's about to leave the mall. This could be done so easily if they have crappy security on their comlinks.
yes, except they fixed all the fractions-of-a-penny loopholes back in the 90s. besides, you're still not getting what money laundering actually is. you can't just trade dollars with people. the whole point of money laundering is to explain where you got the money from. it's something you do so you don't have a million bucks in your checking account that came from nowhere. that sort of thing gets you noticed. if you have a million dollars in your checking account that came from betting at the racetrack, that's not so supicious.
the only time you'd actually want to just trade a stack of money for a different stack of money--a smaller stack of money, usually, for reasons i'll explain in a second--is if your money were somehow marked. you'd basically be fencing something valuable but traceable (the marked money), and getting a percentage of the full value back (the small stack of money), with the remainder being the fence's fee for taking the risks involved in selling (spending) this valuable, traceable item. and in an age of electronic cash, i'm not sure you'd really need to go to all that trouble.
the only time you'd actually want to just trade a stack of money for a different stack of money--a smaller stack of money, usually, for reasons i'll explain in a second--is if your money were somehow marked. you'd basically be fencing something valuable but traceable (the marked money), and getting a percentage of the full value back (the small stack of money), with the remainder being the fence's fee for taking the risks involved in selling (spending) this valuable, traceable item. and in an age of electronic cash, i'm not sure you'd really need to go to all that trouble.
Gambling is quite a good way of money laundering, depending on how strict the casino is on finding out where the money came from.
Just bet on something with a decent payoff -- like average payback is 1:0.85. You get 85% of your money back, but it's clean, because you won it.
Just bet on something with a decent payoff -- like average payback is 1:0.85. You get 85% of your money back, but it's clean, because you won it.
or, if you've got connections or know how to talk to the right people, you could pay the casino (or a casino worker) 15-20% off the top to rig the game for you. and then, afterwards, they could fix the books to show that you bet a smaller amount and won a larger amount.
why the hell am i studying e-business and web design? i should be a mafia accountant.
why the hell am i studying e-business and web design? i should be a mafia accountant.
Mafia Accountants have bad job security - what are you gonna do when books don't 'tally' as they 'should'?
buy a plane ticket to somewhere sunny with all the money i've stolen from the mob.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| yes, except they fixed all the fractions-of-a-penny loopholes back in the 90s. |
Fractions of a „ - that would be pennies first, not necessarily fractions of pennies.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| it's something you do so you don't have a million bucks in your checking account that came from nowhere. that sort of thing gets you noticed. |
Usually, it didn't come from 'nowhere' - those are fees/donations to the (fictional) service agency/nonprofit organization using that account...
right. that's money laundering.
What if you do really good at blackjack or something? Does the mafia shoot you?
Judging from movies/series, they tend to kill you. Probably a big hammer instead of shots, at least until they have their money back.
My current char actually was an accountant of an organized crime syndicate, and involved in money laundering.
I am just not sure how my char did it. It's kind of unsatisfying to just roll a money laundering skill ...
My current char actually was an accountant of an organized crime syndicate, and involved in money laundering.
I am just not sure how my char did it. It's kind of unsatisfying to just roll a money laundering skill ...
if you do really good at blackjack in a legal casino, you go home rich. the gummint taxes the bejesus out of you, the casino (mob-run or not) counts the 500,000% profit they made on all the suckers who lost at blackjack, and everybody is happy and retains full use of their knees.
Unless you believe what's written in SoNA about Las Vegas, which is just nonsense (Yeah, Jay, I said it. Sorry, dude. I hope that's one of the parts that got "edited" post-submission).
| QUOTE (Slump) |
| Gambling is quite a good way of money laundering, depending on how strict the casino is on finding out where the money came from. Just bet on something with a decent payoff -- like average payback is 1:0.85. You get 85% of your money back, but it's clean, because you won it. |
Hey, if the casino isn't checking into where your money came from, why wouldn't you just get $500,000 worth of chips and then cash out (maybe not all at once, or not on the same day, just to be on the safe side)?
The riskiest part is the initial deposit of the dirtiest money. Right now, banks are required to report cash deposits above a certain size (let's say $10k); so what a money launderer will start off with is making smaller deposits, either through accomplices or over multiple days/banks (or a combination of all three). This is called smurfing, no drek. Another common laundering tactic is using "offshore" accounts in places like the Caymans, Hong Kong, or Dubai, where there are actually strict laws against tracking financial transfers, and doing maybe hundreds of transfers in a short period of time, or using places like Pakistan and China where there are legal-ish alternative banking systems that are largely undocumented.
One can also invest in legitimate businesses, typically high volume or cash-intensive businesses. You know that one restaurant downtown that's been open for, like, twenty years, but you've never seen more than one table occupied at a time?
(By the way, I'm taking this stuff from:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/money-laundering.htm
and I am not an international criminal.
b1ff
there is a howstuffworks page on money laundering!? 
i realy need to check that site out
i realy need to check that site out
The Caymans. Ha! There are small south pacific islands which appear and disappear out of nowhere that exist almost exlcusively as places to launder money.
The Internet is okay for the basics (like, say, for writing a SB), but there are actual paper and ink books (quite a few, actually) which are infinitely more useful.
The Internet is okay for the basics (like, say, for writing a SB), but there are actual paper and ink books (quite a few, actually) which are infinitely more useful.
Friend of mine's mother's band (yeah, yeah) was used as a money-laundering front for a while. The manager sold weed. He'd get paid for their gigs with a big check from the people hiring the band, and pay the band with the cash from his side business. The weed money never makes it into anything with his name on it, and the people he's using to launder the money never complain about not getting paid, and the money going into his accounts is from legit buisiness deals.
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