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Deadjester
Hackers have Shadowland where they can socialize with runners of their type and and do deals and what not.

Where do Sams go to meet runners of their type, where they can do deals, be more comfortable with people who all know what each other do and just hang?

Or do they even have a special place/bar?

I know in RL there are certain places where you are more likely to meet mercs and get in contact with them so I was wondering if that still holds true in SR4 and if anyone had any info on it.

Deadjester
emo samurai
I'm sure there are, like, 50 of them all over the place. It's just that Shadowland can accomodate a million people talking to each other, and no physical place that offers any level of anonymity could do the same.
Jaid
there are some clubs and such that cater to shadowrunners. naturally, they are also full of wannabes. generally speaking, shadowrunners don't just randomly get together and share information, as a whole. probably for much the same reason accountants don't go hang out in one place and compare the financial data of their workplaces, except you can replace the consequence of "law suit" with "executed or at least never going to ever get another decent job if they live another 1000 years."

of course, if you are paying them for the info, that changes things entirely =P

but anyways, yes, there are such places. generally speaking they aren't terribly obvious, and will be full of wannabes.
emo samurai
Speaking of paying for information, how often does this happen in your world? And do you ever have you players approached with offers to rat their chummers out?
Paul
QUOTE (Deadjester)
Hackers have Shadowland where they can socialize with runners of their type and and do deals and what not.

According to Canon the Matrix is a place where a great number of people meet, not all of them Hackers. I personally find this somewhat amusing given the security problems inheirent with any computerized or electronic/multimedia formats.

I suspect that just like today sensitive material is saved for face to face meets, hence the need for professionals we all know and love: Mr. Johnson.

QUOTE
Where do Sams go to meet runners of their type, where they can do deals, be more comfortable with people who all know what each other do and just hang?


That's a pretty D&D question in my book. "Where do i go to meet other Fighters Dude?" Well depends on your character, your game and your Game Master right? Where do people go to hang out with pyschotic, heavily armed, former felons today? Bars. Casinos. Right? Why is 207x any different?

Since not all "Samurai" are the same, all sorts of locations can serve this function. One of my players plays a very conservative Japanese "Street Sam" who likes to spend his time in rock gardens and museums, prefering to meet his contacts in public places-preferablely crowded, spacious and hard to commit serious surveillance assets in an effective manner.

Maybe your "Sam" likes to swill beer and pretzels so he hangs at the local Irish pub. Or maybe he has a friend that runs a pizza parlor. Check out the old Seattle Sourcebook, and the The Shadowrun Supplimental for locations and plot hooks.

Most of the time the game world won't function any differently than real life. Places that cater to certain clientels will get the word out, often discreetly.

if you're the GM start simple. Have a few places mapped up, and use them for a little while. Every cop in any major city can tell you where to find hookers or drug dealers right? And why? Because something about that locale attracts them. Shadowrunners would be no different.
SL James
*breaks out the old "wait for Runner Havens" saw *
Geekkake
Shadowland: It's not just for hackers anymore. To use some older material as a reference, I refer you to the fact that individuals such as Matador (a merc) and Hatchetman (a street samurai) used to post, prior to some unfortunate events. Of course, Shadowland was more of a sewing circle than anything else.
Rooks
I believe previous versions of SR did make mentions to Runner bars where Shadowrunners hung out
Deadjester
They use to have the Neon Samurai in the older versions of SR, I was just cruious if any spoilers were let out for the newer one.

I wasn't thinking in the fashion, this is a "Shadowrunners Only Club" but a bar that is known for its hidden lvls where only those in the know are seen more often.

There are all sorts there but a place where they can filter to another floor or back area if they want to and be away from the standard riff raff and yuppies.
nick012000
Well, Club Penumbra is a known hangout for shadowrunners.
Paul
Was I speaking in English? Or do you people really not own any of the books that don't contain stats for cyberware?

The game world is filled with spots where professional criminals for hire like to hang out.
kigmatzomat
Yup. Poolhalls, bars, clubs, and some ethnic restaurants. Look, the best place for a bunch of runners to meet is somewhere no one would expect a bunch of runners to meet. Dance clubs & concerts can be good because no one will notice a white noise generator over the speakers. The ocean is the original white noise generator. Every city has a number of private clubs where you have to be a member to get access; runners & Johnsons will try to become members so they can have a bouncer and maybe some limited control on security.
nick012000
Club Penumbra in Seattle.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Deadjester)
where do Runners meet?

Everywhere they can get into. grinbig.gif
SL James
Well said, Rotbart. Well said.
Geekkake
If I had to speculate, I'd imagine that runners hang out just about anywhere there's enough distraction and mind-altering substances to take their minds off the fact that they're dead, their bodies just haven't been alerted to the fact yet. But it's only a matter of time.
Seven-7
Shadowrunners aren't some super secret club. You dont get a decoder ring or some special card that gets you discounts. The only thing that seperates a Runner from a criminal or moraless corp is that a Runner isn't on file, anywhere...usualy. The whole theme is a bit wacked out I suppose, and hard to play. Were given this fluff that says "You're thieves, bullies, and generally moraless, but you dont kill for money, and you've got a heart of gold and like to save the world. Go play." Irks me a bit.

So your question is akin to asking "Where do all people with a rare case of pinky toe cancer go to hang out?"

Besides, isn't Shadowlands down or something? I never finished System Crash or whatever.
Azathfeld
In my game, the players have, from time to time, met with their fixer at Jethro's Olde Tyme Cafe. Jethro's is a bar with a faux-wood front, and a bouncer in a cowboy outfit outside. If you know the password (most recently it was "sarsaparilla"), the cowboy lets you inside. The password is disseminated a week or so in advance by an exclusive hacker network.

Once inside, you see that Jethro's is the most up-to-date, state-of-the-art hacker hangout this side of the Pecos. You order drinks through AR, and they're delivered by drones to wherever you seat yourself. The dance floor, which plays the newest computerized musical creations, allows you to load up an agent, which is then represented in AR; this allows hackers, who don't always have a companion, to bring along their own dance partner. On Fridays, Jethro's plays host to Ms. Mann and the One Mann Band, a technomancer-musician who's taught a complement of machine sprites how to play instruments built into her drones.
Paul
I like where you're going with this. What seperates a Professional from the common criminal?
Signal
QUOTE (Seven-7)
The whole theme is a bit wacked out I suppose, and hard to play. Were given this fluff that says "You're thieves, bullies, and generally moraless, but you dont kill for money, and you've got a heart of gold and like to save the world. Go play." Irks me a bit.

To be honest with you, I agree: There was a whole bunch of fluff about SR1 that really doesn't sit well with me today now that I think back on it. But with every edition and fluff book they published, the universe (usually) got more refined and well-thought-out. Now granted, we're all still "gangsters with a heart of gold," but I can accept that given that magic is a common(ish) occurance, dragons run multinational corporations, hackers quite literally live in their own little worlds, cyborgs rampage down the street every other night, and having a lunch break with a troll ain't no thang.
Nomad
In my book, a Professional is one who takes great care in minimizing the risk of getting caught or doing something which will draw undo attention. They may not hesitate to kill, if necessary, but if it can be avoided, they will. Not necessarily because of a moral code, but because killing adds the possibility of reprisals. They don't talk about their runs because as the old adage goes "Loose lips sink ships (or at least get you caught)."
Signal
QUOTE (Paul @ Mar 27 2006, 09:30 PM)
I like where you're going with this. What seperates a Professional from the common criminal?

My opinion:

A professional is somebody who does the job he's paid to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

A common criminal will exploit as many opportunities as he can for his own personal fulfillment.

For example:
A professional is hired to steal data from an office. He does this by breaking into the office, going to where the data is kept, and makes a secretary open up the safe and hand it over to him at gunpoint. Then he just leaves. (For the sake of argument, assume he's wearing a mask so he doesn't have to worry about being identified later)

A criminal breaks into the office, steals anything that's not nailed down on the way to the office, tortures the secretary to make her open the safe, maybe rape her after she hands over the disk, then blows her away anyway before setting fire to the office building and taking off, all for the sake of thinking it might earn him a "hard core rep" or else he just has fun doing such things.
Nikoli
How odd, how many characters have we all seen that fall moreso into the later category than the former.
Signal
Too many. frown.gif

A Shadowrunner, as someone previously mentioned, is basically a freelance mercenary, usually SINless.

Thus, a Shadowrunner can be either "professional" or a "criminal."
Paul
Remember too that fun isn't always "professional"-sometimes some people like hack and slash. I say tool in the box, to be used when appropriate-but obviously I don't claim to represent everyone.
Deadjester
Hmm I see some have taken it farther then I have ment.

I am not talking about a Runners only club where you need to know the secret to the shinning knight glow in the dark condom and you may enter.

I am talking about there are some places where like feel more comfortable around like and the estasblishment knows and keeps it low key where they may rest a bit more secure.

Soldiers have places like that, mercs do to for I know a few, and I have been to places and other sorts. After all many don't work with a pure select few and a friendly face is better to be around cause you know what they are like then a unkown face for the more paranoid.

So quit crying in my beer and if you have any ideas say so and if not, pay your own tab.
Paul
No you're the one not getting the point. Nothing is cut and dry, and to think otherwise is silly and ignorant. Even the bars I used to hang out in when I was a Marine that had a rep as being "Jar Head" joints weren't just that.

You're looking for a AD&D solution to a world where black and white isn't colour. Step back, look again. Things aren't so cut and dry man. Define Street Samurai. Is it anyone who can fight? Or is it only those dedicated to fighting? Or is it people who follow a moral code when fighting?

The reason they include archetypes is to inspire, not limit. Stop trying to limit. Stop trying to box things into catergories. Start looking at the game with an eye for realism.
eidolon
Shadowrunners meet at your mom's house.

OHHH!! BURN!!!!

wink.gif
mfb
the suave runners meet at Damn Good Coffee.
hyzmarca
The high-end shadowrunners probably hang out in the classy bars with all the other movers and shakers including various world leaders.

If you ever see a former UCAS President, Hitler's main squeeze Eva Braun, and King Richard the Lionheart all hanging out together you're probably in one of those bars.
mfb
Jill the Ever-Present Coffee Girl has a strict no-Hitler rule in place at DGC.
SL James
... and a PanicButton under the counter.
Fresno Bob
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
If you ever see a former UCAS President, Hitler's main squeeze Eva Braun, and King Richard the Lionheart all hanging out together you're probably in one of those bars.

Or really drunk.
Deadjester
Actualy you don't get the point but what I was looking for is more what Hyzmarca came up with, not some cut in dry solution to a problem thats not there.

As for the mom comment, I kind of liked that, made me feel young and in school again, thanks!
Paul
So you want more retarded, and less real life common sense based solutions? Copy that kiddo.
hyzmarca
I think of it link that bar in Washington that almost everyone from the White House goes to because it is conviently located. Because so many big players go there the fixers would follow suit for the connections and for the intel that can be gleened from the loose lips of drunk people with security clearance. Shadowrunners would follow suit to get connections with the fixers. Johnsons would follow suit for the shadowrunners and the fixers as well.

The same can be said for that cool elf club where all the Tir Princes go when they're in town.

I do understand that it is highly unlikely that King Richard and Mrs. Hitler would be civil to one another long enough to have a drink together but history shows that dead president Dunkie can keep them from killing each other long enough to have a chat.
SL James
It's called the Old Ebbitts Grill. It's across the street from the Treasury Building on 15th & G st. There are two bars, one has the best oyster bar in the city (which is saying something) and it's a hangout for a lot of people, especially off-duty Secret Service agents. Runners would be well-advised not to start anything there.
mfb
wait, hyzmarca was serious?
Paul
These people kill me.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
If you ever see a former UCAS President, Hitler's main squeeze Eva Braun, and King Richard the Lionheart all hanging out together you're probably in one of those bars.

More like in one of those bars... called Callahan's.
hyzmarca
Callahan's does have the best Irish coffee in the world.

Serious about Kind Richard and Eva? No. Just pointing out that Immortal Elves don't have their own secret bars and have to go to the public ones like everyone else.

There was a nice little short story with Ehran and Harley sitting in a bar discussing Dunkie's assasination and I would have used Ehran but I can't remember which historical leader he was. It is easy enough to remember that Alachia was Eva Braun.
Deadjester
Haha its ok Paul, really its OK!

You have to understand, I understand where many of you are coming from but I have this odd quirk thats hard for me to ignore.

I played EQ for 5 years and talked to thousands of posters, and after so long you get kind of jaded. I got to see hundreds of SL James, Pauls, wannabe intelligent, pissy, humours etc styles of postings and after working at construction for so many years, its like water off a ducks back. Your eyes just seem to gloss over allot and pick out what you need and your emotions don't kick in.

The only posts that really grab my interests for the most part are the really intelligent posts and posts written by people who don't speak english well. Those rare ones that have something odd going on, so that it just makes me want to figure out what they are saying.

So after I read the posts and read between the lines, in short order I fleshed it out but due to some of the emotion in the posts I just can't help laying some bait.

Many people really get off on their style of posting and its just interesting to see it in action and how far they are willing to carry it.

I do apologize for baiting, not to say when I see over excited people posting that I won't do it again, but I find it interesting when people get so worked up. We are not talking religion, politics, just gaming.

Oh, thanks for the info, i put together alot out of it, the rest was just entertainment, so thanks both ways. smile.gif
Dissonance
Gee, now that's the way to make friends with people who are trying to help you flesh out your campaign.

Compare them to 13 year old l33td00dz on an MMOG.

I smell a Creepwood
mfb
indeed. if we're talking about types of posters, Deadjester isn't the first guy i've seen who intentionally dicks with other posters, and then claims he's just kidding around.
Butterblume
Where runners drink met? Valhalla, most likely.

SCNR.
SL James
QUOTE (mfb)
wait, hyzmarca was serious?

Scary, ain't it?

QUOTE (hyzmarca)
There was a nice little short story with Ehran and Harley sitting in a bar discussing Dunkie's assasination and I would have used Ehran but I can't remember which historical leader he was.  It is easy enough to remember that Alachia was Eva Braun.

I thought they were disguised, and it was on a park bench.
Dissonance
Immortal elves don't really exist. Any claims to have seen an immortal elf are really the result of a really bad drug trip, combined with a very specific sort of psychotropic conditioning.

All immortal elves are actually ambulatory fenceposts.
Paul
QUOTE (Deadjester)
Haha its ok Paul, really its OK!





Uh huh.

QUOTE
You have to understand, I understand where many of you are coming from but I have this odd quirk thats hard for me to ignore.


Actually I don't have to understand, or agree. I also doubt you really understand where I'm coming from or how. I'll also never understand how, nor want to understand how you can consider ignorance or obtuse for the fun of it cool. But that's fine.

QUOTE
I played... Snip a lot of drivel, that's really stupid.


You really have no idea what you're talking about, or how to express your self in the english language do you?

Baiting? You think you're baiting? Ha. You've got to be kidding me. None of you people remember the Elf do you?
SL James
*starts to raise his hand, only to smack it back down with the other*

"Quiet, you!"
Deadjester
Did I hear a response (holds hand to ear) why I think I did. I am sure you have more to say, so lets hear it.

As to making friends, I also paid some compliments here, even though Paul may not like what I said, I did understand what he said and put it together along side what others have said here.

What he likes or dislikes about what I said means little to me, but he did make some points which I jotted down. Thats all I really wanted and got, the rest was just iceing on the cake is all.
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