emo samurai
May 22 2006, 07:27 PM
K00l, when Street Magic comes around I will bind the most powerful ally spirit possible, give it all the spirit powers and immunities it could want, and make a power focus for it to bond and use! He/she will even have a rockman mecha form that can be used to protect me from normal weapons. That will rock so hard, I can not even begin to choose whose mom to punch in the face.
LinaInverse
May 22 2006, 07:35 PM
While I'm as power-mongering as any PC out there, there's a few snags in your master plan...
First off, the foci addiction vs Ally spirits rule is SR3. I have no idea about SR4. Two, in SR3, you really can't give ally spirits any spirit powers, other than manifest; they don't get Immunity to Weaps, Accident, Engulf, etc. They do have Sorcery, but that's it, and you have to teach them spells seperately. And finally, a high-powered ally spirit is going to cost the farm in Karma, and will be a tough test to summon/control unless you yourself have high Charisma/Conjuring skills.
emo samurai
May 22 2006, 07:46 PM
Dude, my dude's an elf shaman with maxed-out Charisma. And they can't materialize? I thought immunity to normal weapons was just a part of materialization. That sucks donkey balls. Maybe I won't get an ally spirit.
LinaInverse
May 22 2006, 08:16 PM
Of course they can materialize; it's just that they can get shot when they do so. I could be wrong (don't have book w/ me at work), but the listing for materialization under Ally Spirit creation does not grant immunity to normal weapons powers to Ally Spirits. Also "Immunity to Normal Weaps" and "Manifestation" are actually seperately listed powers when you look at the Spirit powers listings.
But just because they don't have Immunity doesn't mean the Ally spirit "sucks". Properly set up, they can be very powerful, useful tools. They just aren't some uber game-breaking item that some make them out to be. And as I said, even if such powers were available, creating such a spirit would cost a hell of a lot of Karma. If power-mongering is your thing, then it's 6 of one/half-a dozen another which way works best.
Prospero
May 23 2006, 05:13 PM
They do in fact have Immunity to Normal Weapons, just like other spirits who Materialize, because that's part of Materialization.
Moon-Hawk
May 23 2006, 05:15 PM
That's how I always figured it worked.
LinaInverse
May 23 2006, 05:36 PM
OK, my bad. MitS, p109 does in fact make it very clear that Materialized spirits do have Immunity to Normal Weaps.
emo samurai
May 23 2006, 05:38 PM
Maybe I WILL have an ally spirit.
Bodak
May 28 2006, 11:51 PM
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| Can they have Innate Spell in SR3? If so, that was the SR3 version of Elemental Attack (kinda) in that creatures with fire breath (for example) would have Innate Spell (Flamethrower). |
| QUOTE (LinaInverse) |
| Two, in SR3, you really can't give ally spirits any spirit powers, other than manifest; they don't get Immunity to Weaps, Accident, Engulf, etc |
If you want a spirit with those powers you need to bind a Free spirit which has those powers, eg a Great form fire Elemental or Salamander. You'll need an astral quest to find its true name and you'll need to defeat it in astral combat, then bind it. Once bound it never runs out of services, and is reluctantly obedient. It cannot go free unless you're killed or another magician seizes control of it, unlike allies which can (if they want to) attempt to go free any time you take Deadly damage. It might, of course, 'accidentally' misunderstand a poorly-worded command which might end up killing you, but that's the risk you take for playing with fire. You can bind a spirit of your own tradition or a different tradition... you can even bind one if you're mundane and know its True name. You just can't bind freely occurring / spontaneously appearing spirits like certain Irish salamanders.
| QUOTE (LinaInverse) |
| From what I remember about ally spirits (SR3), using them as power foci isn't painful (look at entry for Aid Sorcery). Using them to stage Drain however is; that's the service that's explicitly listed as painful and will make them hate you. |
Right. Aid Power is a free exclusive power on p108 that let it be used as a portable powerfocus that can nip off to a metaplane any time you are searched for and stripped of magical items. No mention of it being at all uncomfortable. It can help with Sorcery and Conjuring but not Enchanting. It can aid in a Ritual of Change to help you upgrade it. Aid Sorcery is a power of Elementals to help their mage with a specific category of spells. Resist Drain is a separate service on p110/ "This service is agonizing to the ally spirit."
| QUOTE (Lindt) |
| No, you cant channel an ally spirit. however, I seem to recall its ability to summon spirits on its own... |
| QUOTE (MitS p110: Skills) |
| An ally cannot have Conjuring, but it can have Enchanting. |
WyldKarde
May 29 2006, 04:35 PM
To be specific, using an Ally's force to buy additional dice with which to resist drain is agonizing to the spirit, and if the spirit's force is reduced to 0 this way the Ally is destroyed.
You can have your Ally resist drain in your place in the normal manner using it's Sorcery skill and spell pool (not willpower?), but that's not specifically painful, except I imagine in terms of damage taken if the drain test is not 100% successful.
emo samurai
May 29 2006, 04:44 PM
Does it reduce force permanently? If so, that's really draconian.
WyldKarde
May 29 2006, 05:27 PM
No, the spirit recovers it's force at the rate of one point per hour. Of course, if your character routinely puts his Ally through the searing agony of sacrificing it's own essence in order to boost his spellcasting then he'll need to watch his back if that Ally ever manages to break free.
emo samurai
May 29 2006, 05:43 PM
My dude won't do that... he's nice... :.(...
And as for binding free spirits... would you be able to get them to like you after a while? Even if it was a really, really OMFG powerful one? Like, if you treated it well? And what services can it give you while it's bound?
langolas
May 29 2006, 06:53 PM
| QUOTE (emo samurai) |
My dude won't do that... he's nice... :.(...
And as for binding free spirits... would you be able to get them to like you after a while? Even if it was a really, really OMFG powerful one? Like, if you treated it well? And what services can it give you while it's bound? |
Even if you are really nice to a free spirit, it's still bound, a slave. It no longer can do what it wants, it has to do your bidding. You can be the most gracious master to a slave, but you are still that, it's master, and it is still that - a slave.
emo samurai
May 29 2006, 07:01 PM
I was just wondering what kinds of services they would like; I was visualizing a free spirit bound to protect a girl or something as she grows up and my releasing it from service after it's done, perhaps with the spirit growing attached to the kid over time. Kind of like the Giving tree, except without death. I'd like that.
JongWK
May 29 2006, 10:44 PM
Depending on who summoned the Ally and how did he treat it, the spirit could have its own ideas as to what is the "proper" way of raising a kid.
emo samurai
May 29 2006, 10:45 PM
No, I meant being more of a guide or a mentor than a parent or something. Protecting the kid when he's in trouble, leading him through adventure that he wouldn't normally go on, stuff like that.
JongWK
May 29 2006, 11:08 PM
Again, that'd depend a lot on treatment by its summoner.
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