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Synner
Continuing on from Ye Olde Review Thread, lets hear what your critiques or praise for "SSG".

We left off with:
QUOTE
Metus wrote:
As an aside, I did think the Global Report was somewhat unnecessary (I'd prefer it cover all of it or none, i.e. SoNA) but that doesn't mean I disliked it. I just wasn't as taken by it as I was with the rest of the book.

Sorry you didn't take to that section (given I wrote it wink.gif). As I mentioned before it served several distinct purposes:
- First and foremost it was meant to complement the Travel section by giving runners places around the world to go to for recreation, work and even upgrades, while at the same time introducing some info on the problems travellers face in different areas of the globe.
- It was also meant to provide some updates and color for certain Sixth World hotspots until the respective full location books come out ("Shadows of Europe", "Shadows of Asia", "Target:Middle East" etc). People had been asking for more info on Tokyo since YotC came out, same for the Amazonia/Metropole and Cairo, this should tide them over a while longer.
- Finally and probably least obvious - but in keeping with the theme of the book - it also served to paint a quick picture of the diversity of sprawl life through-out the Sixth World. Many GMs have a natural tendency to go with what's known in their descriptions and as a result, in many games sprawls end up not feeling as distinctive and unique as they might. Hopefully the Global Report suggests some ways in which different sprawls in the Sixth World have their own distinct atmosphere and gaming possibilities, and in doing so teases readers into thinking a little out of the box in their own games whether they use those specific locations or not.
last_of_the_great_mikeys
What did they do to my game? Hockey fights go on until one of the players "taps out?" 3 bench clearing brawls allowed per game? Foul! I cry foul! Hockey is not that violent! This little joke goes too far! Whoever wrote that part of it, I'm gonna sic the European players on ya!
Adam
Yeah, that bit raised my "WTF?" meter, too.
last_of_the_great_mikeys
Other than that, I'd say the SSG doesn't suck. It has some nice "feel" articles, a decent yet brief political overview, some ideas on travel within the game as well as a few paragraphs on a few places in Shadowrun geography. The crown jewel of the book is the "Life on the Run" section. It's a 36 page description of how one person went from a respectable position in the news to a shadowrunner, giving a Shadowrunning 101 course in the process.

The bad: I was really hoping for maps...just a few archetypical locals to hold me over until they print out a book of the things. Ah well. As far as rules and stuff, there's nothing revolutionary...in fact, in my opinion, all the optional rules add to the game is bookkeeping. However, I know some people like lots of detail, so for them, things like detailed lifestyle rules and credstick specific advantages are fun. The hockey thing's near unforgivable, though.
Adam
Maps are planned for Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book.
KosherPickle
QUOTE (Adam)
Maps are planned for Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book.

Reprints of Sprawl Sites, something a little different, something completely different, or you have no clue? smile.gif
EVLTIM
Well first off I would like to thank all of the people here that worked on this book .
It is of my opinion that this should be required reading for any one playing Shadow Run . For years I have trying to get my fiance into SR , and she just always gave me a blank stare , and a "Yea it sounds neat ." I handed her this book , and she read thru it , and now she can't wait to play .
smile.gif

This book is 100 percent world flavor , and I crave that kind of stuff .
Pistons
That's awesome. I'm really glad this book hooked someone into wanting to play.
Jestyr
Likewise. smile.gif
Drain Brain
Or, if you would prefer the slightly more earthy version...

*ahem*

"This book kicks ass..."

And there you have it. I am particularly enamoured of the Lifestyle rules - I always wondered, post-purchase, what I was supposed to do with my Car B/R Facility. Now I know... wink.gif
EVLTIM
Well she tried to play a few times before to humor me , but she just didn't get the feel of it all , and I realy tried to help her , and point out where to look for the flavor of everything , but after I picked this book up I asked her to read it also . When she was done I guess it all just clicked for her .

Lord knows we need more female gamers so I am realy stoked to finally bring her into the hobby full swing . smile.gif
Jestyr
If she liked this book, for feel and flavor, she might also appreciate a read through the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life, and/or Shadowbeat. Both have "everyday life" information in them, more so than most other books.

Pity they're both unavailable and hard to find these days, though. sarcastic.gif
EVLTIM
QUOTE (Jestyr)
If she liked this book, for feel and flavor, she might also appreciate a read through the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life, and/or Shadowbeat. Both have "everyday life" information in them, more so than most other books.

Pity they're both unavailable and hard to find these days, though. sarcastic.gif

Zactly . I found NAGNA , but NAGTRL slipped thru my fingers when my so called friend saw it first . Sigh . And then of course his little brother trashed it . dead.gif
spotlite
I'm gonna try that trick on my gf. She's playing at the moment but for some reason is having difficulty getting into the game-world. Doesn't help that she can never be bothered to sit down and watch Bladerunner, Ghost in the Shell or Crying Freeman, but this book might be the trick.

Oh, and second the whole 'its flavour text! we love it!' opinion someone else put up, above. This sort of thing adds so much to the game world, regardless of any rules updated or stats that go into it. I felt the same way about all the target: books. Its one of the things I missed most about Rigger3 - no fiction (I know its up on the main site now, but I still missed it), and one of the things I loved most about it as well - tons of real, useful, gameworld info about how stuff works with transponders and drek at the beginning.

New rules are great. New toys are great. But stuff that brings the game we love to life - now that's fantastic. Marks out of ten for SSG (given that I'm only half way through reading it): at least 9.5. I can't give it a 10 because once again there's no index.
moosegod
QUOTE (last_of_the_great_mikeys)
What did they do to my game? Hockey fights go on until one of the players "taps out?" 3 bench clearing brawls allowed per game? Foul! I cry foul! Hockey is not that violent! This little joke goes too far! Whoever wrote that part of it, I'm gonna sic the European players on ya!

So? All they're saying is that it has become Urban Brawl on ice.
Digital Heroin
QUOTE (moosegod)
QUOTE (last_of_the_great_mikeys @ Sep 27 2003, 11:42 PM)
What did they do to my game? Hockey fights go on until one of the players "taps out?" 3 bench clearing brawls allowed per game? Foul! I cry foul! Hockey is not that violent! This little joke goes too far! Whoever wrote that part of it, I'm gonna sic the European players on ya!

So? All they're saying is that it has become Urban Brawl on ice.

Which is a complete slight to a nation's passtime and a noble sport...
moosegod
Noble sport my foot.
Digital Heroin
QUOTE (moosegod)
Noble sport my foot.

What was that, eh? What would you call it ya hoser? Hell... what would you call a noble sport?
JongWK
Soccer? smile.gif
moosegod
QUOTE (Digital Heroin)
What was that, eh? What would you call it ya hoser? Hell... what would you call a noble sport?

A sport where they make up their minds whether or not to punish fighting.
Adam
Let's not drag this further off topic, please.
Prospero
Just bought this last night. Am still reading it, but...

*twitch* *drool* I'm in love. cyber.gif

In all seriousness, this is the kind of stuff that makes Shadowrun my favorite game. I like the rules and the action and all that, but that's not what's unique about it. The flavor, the carefully developed world, the excellent integration of sociology, prediction of current trends in fashion and society, modern science, and the careful blending of these with magic and fantastical elements is why I keep coming back. When I first heard about this, I figured it was going to be something like Sprawl Sites warmed over. But for all you people who worked on it, my hat's off to you. In any imaginary world, the most difficult thing to do is to get the little details of every day life correct and that is exactly what you've done, along with adding other helpings of international flavor, etc. Putting together something like this is every bit as difficult and intensive as creating a short-story or a novel. Two thumbs up and I'd give you more if I had them.
mfb
i ordered it from amazon in late september. still no joy. we hatesss the tricksssy amazon.
Jason Farlander
QUOTE (mfb)
i ordered it from amazon in late september. still no joy. we hatesss the tricksssy amazon.

Interestingly, Amazon.com lists the SSG is not currently in print, with an availability of February, 2004. Perhaps you should cancel your order with the thievsing amazonses and order it from Stiggybaby...?
snowRaven
Two words sum SSG up I think: Great!! MORE!!! grinbig.gif

Loved it! I think the great artwork deserves special mention - don't think I've seen a book in a long time with such overall good quality to the art (I think the cover art piece could've been better though, but...you can't get everything). All the 'flavor text' - Superb! This should be required reading for any SR player and GM. And the rules... Household Drones, expanded lifestyle and ID rules - all wonderful!
Logo
A great read so far, very good descriptions about things I had always wondered about. Once I finish it I'm going to force all my players to read it so we've all got the same idea of how the Shadowrun world works.
Capt. Dave
I am a big fan of this book...I especially love the fleshing out of lifestyle. I say, the more detail of the SR world and the more options, the better. Of course, I will soon have to deal with PCs having 3 GM Mr. Fix-Its to (try) to build a portable railgun and a suit of powered armor while they sleep, as well as a suborbital to carry them around from one haunted house with a manaline to another.
Smiley
What about the ghouls in the basement? Do they count as friends for life since you're roommates?
Also, can you ask them to share the rent? Like, in exchange for some fleshy leavings from the latest run?
Capt. Dave
You people see what I'm talking about, now?
vebor
Concept wise I didnt like the interviews chapter. Realistically (according to SR), that woman should be dead.
Kanada Ten
She is dead. Car accident wink.gif
Pistons
QUOTE (vebor)
Realistically (according to SR), that woman should be dead.

Funny you should say that, when it's in a Shadowrun book. smile.gif
vebor
QUOTE (Pistons)
QUOTE (vebor @ Apr 3 2004, 09:01 PM)
Realistically (according to SR), that woman should be dead.

Funny you should say that, when it's in a Shadowrun book. smile.gif

I was wrong, (re-read the chapter)
TimeKeeper
Having not read anything since YotC/SotA, I picked this up.

Kinda pissed that Wedge is dead now, but then again he never really posted much anyway. Just kind of a shock to hear a Prime runner bitting the big one. Probably got careless.

Anyway, overall, I enjoyed the new fiction and combined with the fact that I only have this and SR3 while I'm on island, it's a good jumping off point for new players. They get to see what the world is like and I get to fill them in on the details. (I'm no AH, but I've been around since 96 and had my fare share of books.)
vebor
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
She is dead. Car accident wink.gif

Thats actually vauge. She could have faked it, or she could have died.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (vebor)
QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Apr 3 2004, 09:03 PM)
She is dead. Car accident wink.gif

Thats actually vauge. She could have faked it, or she could have died.

Hence the > wink.gif <

I'd rather she lived; what a great hook for the PC's...
Prospero
Just out of curiosity... Can anyone think of any other RPG that came out with an "everyday life" book like this one? I don't think I can...
Tzeentch
CP2020 had some "street level" books. In particular, Wildside (very good), Rache Bartmosse's Guide to the Net (so-so), Home of the Brave (awesome), Rockerboy (crap, Live and Direct (crap), etc. . . .

Also, there are the DP9 books for CP2020 (when they called themselves Ianus Games) -- notably Dark Metropolis and Grimm's Cybertales.
Sepherim
Probably one of the best books in SR! Loved each and every word in it. A MUST read for any Master or player. love.gif
Paul
Just got my copy today. Very happy so far. I hope to have some more in depth commentary posted soon.
Pistons
Looking forward to it. smile.gif
Paul
Paulís review of the Sprawl survival Guide.

First let me say overall I really enjoyed this book. Of all the books introduced after the 3rd Edition was released in 1997-this one ranks in my top five. For a lot of reasons. Overall it was an enjoyable easy read. Artwork was often enjoyable, and more important to me fun.

I read the SSG while at work the other night in a marathon eight-hour session. I took some notes, and here they are:

Living in the Sixties

I really enjoyed this section of the book. It went a long way to satisfy the geek in me who has been demanding a view of every day life in 206x. Itís exactly the sort of change from Man and Machine stylebooks that I wanted.

I really got a better idea of not only the range of difference between how some people live, but also the where they live. (I.e. low versus middle lifestyle) Just the small things that got me thinking. I have already got a bunch of things I want to highlight in several games coming up.

The Networked home section really got me thinking. I really plan some major changes in my game based off this information. I congratulate the writers-you drew me in, and I stayed. I read the book cover to cover twice.

A small side note here-I like seeing handles I recognize from various boards in books. It tickles me pink. I think itís a neat bone to throw back to the community. Some people may not care-but I like it. It adds a personal touch. So thanks! (Not that my name was in thereÖ )

Flats: I got a kick out of this. Reminded me an awful lot of Demolition Man, Why didnít I think of this first? Itís the small touches. It really is.

I like that we get input from all over NA/globally. It makes it easier to use Seattle as a baseline and then compare and contrast based on those sort of comments.

Ask Trollbabe! Donít tell me this isnít Thorns advice column, and I wonít cry!

Simsense finally felt right at home in this book. It was the perfect book for it.

Itís a Small World

Not bad at all. Itís nice to see I am thinking along the same lines as the writers. I plan on having my players read this section. I think theyíll really like it.

The Global report felt out of place-but only a little.

Life on the Run

My favorite section. Pistons I have to say I really enjoyed The Scoop. I really did. I was nervous at first because when I read Sixís first set of replies I thought oh no-too contrived. You surprised me nicely. I really liked this story-I liked the feel, the pacing-all of it.

Very low key, very unassuming-very damn cool.

Nice touches with discussing how she got her laundry done, and the difficulties of street hygiene. Also the intricacies of gang life-Blood in blood out. Very cool.

All in all the Sprawl Survival Guide comes highly recommended by me-especially for new players, or even old players who just want to get back in touch with the basics.

I am going to get a second copy!
Pistons
I believe "Ask Trollbabe" was definitely a nod to Thorn.

Glad you liked it. smile.gif
toturi
I think this might have been mentioned previously. How did the security ratings for the various Seattle areas get changed from those presented in New Seattle?
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