I hate to be a nub and ask the dumb question, but here we go.
I'm running an SR4 campaign at the moment, and have a player who wishes to become an active rigger. The only problem is, I've looked back and forth quite a lot, and while I understand the Pilot/Autosoft, I can't find any -other- Matrix attributes for drones. I am assuming that the Pilot, as the operating system for the drone, determines the System attribute. However, I can't find anything on the Signal rating for drones, Firewall, or Response. I've looked at the index, and tried my hand at google-fu. Am I being dumb and overlooking something stated obviously somewhere?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Full Version: Drone statistics
Pilot = Response = Firewall = System = Signal = 3
You can upgrade them seperately, though
You can upgrade them seperately, though
According to the rules, drones fall under "generic devices" which have a rating of 3 for all matrix attributes. IIRC that is.
Pilot replaces the system attribute only, see page 214. Everything else starts at rating 3, the standard for drones. If you want to upgrade see page 240. It's up to you if you want to allow sensor rating to be upgraded, I'd use the missle sensor costs on page 314. Otherwise sensors can't be upgraded.
Sensors are listed in the audio/visual gear, near the contacts, sunglasses and helmets. You'll note a table on the right hand page towards the bottom (can't remember the page #) that has a series of entries for RFID, microdrones, minidrone, small drone, large drone/vehicle sensors and the capacity of each size category.
You then buy the sensors to fill that capacity just as you would cybereyes. IIRC, microdrones (the grasshopper sized ones) have a capacity of [1] so they'll hold a camera with some mods. Microdrones are about a [3] allowing you to pack a camera, microphone, and one other sensor.
Yes, this should be called out better in the drone text.
You then buy the sensors to fill that capacity just as you would cybereyes. IIRC, microdrones (the grasshopper sized ones) have a capacity of [1] so they'll hold a camera with some mods. Microdrones are about a [3] allowing you to pack a camera, microphone, and one other sensor.
Yes, this should be called out better in the drone text.
| QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ May 17 2006, 10:24 PM) |
| Sensors are listed in the audio/visual gear, near the contacts, sunglasses and helmets. You'll note a table on the right hand page towards the bottom (can't remember the page #) that has a series of entries for RFID, microdrones, minidrone, small drone, large drone/vehicle sensors and the capacity of each size category. You then buy the sensors to fill that capacity just as you would cybereyes. IIRC, microdrones (the grasshopper sized ones) have a capacity of [1] so they'll hold a camera with some mods. Microdrones are about a [3] allowing you to pack a camera, microphone, and one other sensor. Yes, this should be called out better in the drone text. |
I mean like the actual sensor rating of the vehicle. It's all listed on page 342, all drones and vehicles have a rating of 1-3. Not having upgrade rules for that sucks because you could theoretically strap an iBall on the roof of your Patrol Car to get a better perception test.
Edit: Missles don't seem to have an upper sensor limit at all, you could also strap one of those to your roof for a better Perception test. Too bad they're one-use.
Thanks for the answer, all.
This raises one other question; when you upgrade one of the (non-sensor) stats, is this done one point at a time, or can you just 'jump' to the rating you're looking for?
I think one of my players came up with a hypothetical situation where they took the cheapest commlink, and made a Fairlight Caliban equivalent at a fraction of the cost.
I'll admit I've not actually done the check myself just yet.
This raises one other question; when you upgrade one of the (non-sensor) stats, is this done one point at a time, or can you just 'jump' to the rating you're looking for?
I think one of my players came up with a hypothetical situation where they took the cheapest commlink, and made a Fairlight Caliban equivalent at a fraction of the cost.
I'll admit I've not actually done the check myself just yet.
As for upgrading drone sensors, you'd get a Clear-Sight autosoft which, IIRC, you can run at the response=system=pilot rating that should at least double the drone/vehicle's sensor rating.
I don't have my characters handy but I know I had a couple of smallish drones with ClearSight that were getting 4-8 dice on perception tests. I might have used the rules on upgrading the commlink to enhance the drone's response and upgrade the pilot (using the agent costs).
As a house rule we're discussing allowing Sensors to be upgraded at the same cost as System, given the complexity of the sensory systems but we figure upgrading the Response, Pilot and Clearsight Autosofts will get us through using RAW for quite a while.
I don't have my characters handy but I know I had a couple of smallish drones with ClearSight that were getting 4-8 dice on perception tests. I might have used the rules on upgrading the commlink to enhance the drone's response and upgrade the pilot (using the agent costs).
As a house rule we're discussing allowing Sensors to be upgraded at the same cost as System, given the complexity of the sensory systems but we figure upgrading the Response, Pilot and Clearsight Autosofts will get us through using RAW for quite a while.
| QUOTE (MikeTrevin) |
| Thanks for the answer, all. This raises one other question; when you upgrade one of the (non-sensor) stats, is this done one point at a time, or can you just 'jump' to the rating you're looking for? I think one of my players came up with a hypothetical situation where they took the cheapest commlink, and made a Fairlight Caliban equivalent at a fraction of the cost. I'll admit I've not actually done the check myself just yet. |
I think you only need to pay the price you're upgrading to. You can save some money by upgrading it yourself, but not much. You can also buld your own Response or Signal chips for half price and a few Logic+Hardware tests.
Our group forced incremental upgrades and it still saves you a decent amount of cash. I don't have the book handy but IIRC it was a couple thousand saved by upgrading the bottom line commlink to maxed stats.
saved as compared to what? iirc, there *is* no off-the-shelf commlink with maxed stats.
No he means buying a Meta Link Commlink with the worst OS then just buying rating 6 everything and plugging that in. Basically going from Rating 1 to Rating 6 in one "step."
I went a different route: I said a Commlink's stats could only be upgraded to 50% of their original value. Therefore, if you wanted to run a full rating 6 Commlink, you needed to buy the Novatech Rating 4 one to start with.
I went a different route: I said a Commlink's stats could only be upgraded to 50% of their original value. Therefore, if you wanted to run a full rating 6 Commlink, you needed to buy the Novatech Rating 4 one to start with.
so, IRL, if you were to go to a computer store, and they told you the only way to get a hard drive with X amount of memory is to first have a hard drive with X-1 amount of memory, and thus if you want to buy the best one they have you must first buy every single one below it, in order, you would just agree and pay for all the hard drives you're not getting?
(and likewise with any computer component)...
because that's what you're saying you think is reasonable... i personally think that's ludicrous, and just as i IRL would tell the salesmen to go to hades, i would likewise (as a shadowrunner, in character) not be willing to pay for all the hardware upgrades i am not getting.
you already get a huge discount for buying prepackaged hardware and software, making a custom commlink already has that against it. i can't really say i feel it needs more to limit it, and it does not even remotely make sense to limit it by making them buy each lower level first.
(and likewise with any computer component)...
because that's what you're saying you think is reasonable... i personally think that's ludicrous, and just as i IRL would tell the salesmen to go to hades, i would likewise (as a shadowrunner, in character) not be willing to pay for all the hardware upgrades i am not getting.
you already get a huge discount for buying prepackaged hardware and software, making a custom commlink already has that against it. i can't really say i feel it needs more to limit it, and it does not even remotely make sense to limit it by making them buy each lower level first.
I understand his concept. If you assume the low-end devices are older, semi-obsolete gear it makes sense.
For example, my computer is nice for what I need but can't be upgraded. My CPU is maxed for the socket, I have the largest IDE drive my system will accept, and I don't have any PCI-E slots. It's just not possible for me to put the top of the line equipment on my motherboard.
For example, my computer is nice for what I need but can't be upgraded. My CPU is maxed for the socket, I have the largest IDE drive my system will accept, and I don't have any PCI-E slots. It's just not possible for me to put the top of the line equipment on my motherboard.
While buying the raw parts and building the thing yourself doesn't balance out against buying a premade commlink very well, there's no other piece of tech gear that sets a precedent for "you gotta buy all the levels in between"... saying you have to use it for commlinks is a little odd.
I usually describe homebuilt/massively upgraded commlinks as "blackboxes"... there may be a MetaLink under there, but it's got a couple of extra expansions polyglued to the sides, or the case has been stripped away and it's just a piece of clear acrylic with some parts in it now. Something like that.
I usually describe homebuilt/massively upgraded commlinks as "blackboxes"... there may be a MetaLink under there, but it's got a couple of extra expansions polyglued to the sides, or the case has been stripped away and it's just a piece of clear acrylic with some parts in it now. Something like that.
| QUOTE (kigmatzomat) |
| I understand his concept. If you assume the low-end devices are older, semi-obsolete gear it makes sense. For example, my computer is nice for what I need but can't be upgraded. My CPU is maxed for the socket, I have the largest IDE drive my system will accept, and I don't have any PCI-E slots. It's just not possible for me to put the top of the line equipment on my motherboard. |
just to clarify, i wasn't objecting to the maximum improvement based on original level houserule, i was objecting to the "you must buy every level in between" rule.
to put it into perspective, you wouldn't be able to upgrade your computer by buying something just a little bit above what you have, then a little bit higher, and so forth, until you got to the point where you could install the top of the line stuff into your current computer.
that being said, in SR4, at least, there's really only one component that does the "computing" (the response chip), the only other part is the wireless transmitter (signal rating), and the other attributes of a commlink are really just software.
as such, i would personally describe a response chip as basically being a small computer that can run just about anything with the right software installed, rather than as being a specific part of a computer. it's the only way that really makes sense, if you look at it, IMO...
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