I picked up the latest Previews catalog, filling out my order form, and found the entry for the upcoming SR4 book, Arsenal on page 502.....then I saw how much.
$34.95 ????

Sheesh!

And unfortunately more than 10% of it will be useless to most people.

In any case using 90% of a book is pretty good going... And if you experiment with different character types, especially helpful if you play on DS here, you might reach about 100% usage.

True, if you don't cros character types parts won't be useful to you. But by that token at least 20% of the main book would also be useless to you.

I saw this in Previews also and was actually excited. I doubt it will come out in August, but you never know.

I was wondering though is Street Magic hardcover and $34.95 also? I pre-ordered it on Amazon a while back and they had it listed as softcover and $24.95.

The last I heard all of the SR4 supplements are going to be hardcover.

Has anyone said why they'll be hardcover? It just seems like a way to make them a little prettier but a lot costlier.

Was Sr3 originally hardcover?

Or there's a new price discrimination. Price discrimination is the microeconomics concept of charging different prices for essentially the same product based on how much different demographics are willing to pay for it. So hardcovers are sold at twice the price of softcovers even though they take about 2 dollars more to bind just because people who buy hardcovers are quite willing to pay lots of money for the book.

With SR pdf's, the cheapass gamer will buy the pdf rather than a softcover simply because it will inevitably be cheaper. That means that the only people left over are the fanatics, who will willingly pay $35 for a core rulebook.

And that is how penguins fly. The more you know!

Emo: Yes, I think it was. I'll have to check for mine, but it's in storage.
I really have nothing against buying the PDF, I just had a bad XP with one. I'd rather have the hardcopy. But $34.95 is a bit steep.

Well I'm going all PDF anyway, not cheap just more practical for me.

I just wish they'd release more of the older sourcebooks and rulebooks in PDF, I'd like to read riggers 3 to see what rigging was like then for some perspective. Physical books just don't work for me.

Personally I'm stoked that the new books are hardcover. I've replaced most of my SR3 books once already. That puts the tag over $40 and I am a book nazi over how my books are treated. My wife hates it sometimes, because she'll be sitting htere writing something with a book on her lap, and she'll let it sit open to far. I sit there shaking for a good 30 seconds thinking "she'll notice! She has too! How can she treat a book that way on purpose!?" Then I'll say "umm.. honey.. the book.. could you ... pick it up! you're ruining it!" That's about how long I can keep my cool. yeah, she hates it. Sadly, that's me after "getting better"

So far with the SR4 book, I can slide it across the floor or toss it to players and not have any worries. Believe me, I'll pay an extra $10 for not having to worry about my insanities getting me hit with the book I'm trying to protect (happened before). And besides, with all the delayed releases everyone is expecting, and the fac that it isn't coming for another couple of months, that should be plenty of time to save up and extra $10. put your change in a jar or somethin'.

So either way, PDF or hardcover, you have a durable format.

one I can keep and beat unruely players with. The other I can print out again if the first one dies. Personally I prefer to do it just once and have the pretty hardcover. Damn that stupid cover pic though!

Fistandantilus--That's why God invented book covers, they aren't just for junior high any more...

Re: the Price--I think that $35 is in line with the rest of the industry. There has been a push throughout the RPG industry the last several years to go to hardbound books, generally in full color. That has the side effect of raising costs to the the consumer and the printer, but I feel creates a much better product.

Most core books these days cost between $30 and $40 dollars, (IIRC, my D&D core books, translated into French cost 40 Euro--Roughly $60 USD each)

This is NOT FanPro gouging it's loyal fan base, but rather it's Rob and his team doing the best they can to create a good product that looks good and sells well. An important part of the success of a product is how it is perceived to the casual viewer before that person picks up the book and discovers the quality of the content.

And as I have advocated before, if you just do not have the money to purchase the book, help FanPro out and they will compensate you with Product Credit (read: FREE BOOKS!). It is not hard to join the Missions writing team, become a Commando, or just run a few games at a local convention. Besides the books, you get to meet some great people and the process is a lot of fun.

PM me if you have questions and I can put you in touch with the proper people for any of the methods listed above.

-Stephen

Grinder--It was just before Bush told the French off and invaded Iraq. At that point, his economic policies were driving the value of the dollar way down and the conversion was about 1.25 to 1.50 USD per 1€.

Being an American in Lyon was not always a pleasant experience at that point, but the fact that I sound Russian (and look like one) when I speak French helped.

Link action

So far all of my D&D3.5 and 3rd have held together just fine. No page issues.

And I agree on the 1st edition. Out of all of them, my DMG shows some seriosu wear, but the others (Players handbook, Unearthed, Deities and demigods, outdoor survival guide, fiend folio, monsters) are all in excellent shape. If it wasn't for the art style, you'd never know how old they are. love 'em.

how many pages will arsenal be?

SR3.01D was hardcover all the way, though... one of the very few improvements of the .01D line.

edit: useless post

hmm, two wrongs do not make a right or somthing like that...

I for one will happily pay the extra for a hard cover book.
Both my SR2 and SR3 core books have disintergrated.
I was about to get a new SR3 when they announced SR4.
The durability factor alone is worth it.
Plus a big pile of hardback books is more intimidating than a big pile of Hobbit Snot bound ones.

Heh. After paying almost $200 on Ebay a few years back on a BABY (SR3 limited hardcover), I'm no longer shocked by any RPG book price -- although I do still reserve the right to bitch and moan if what I bought is a piece of crap...

Plus, since one of my best friends and fellow gamers opened up the FGLS a couple years ago, I've felt obligated to help keep the store alive -- where else am I gonna be able to reserve two full tables for 8-12 hours once a week, plus have all the gaming munchies and Red Bull I can possibly want?

After my SR3 rulebook's spine split in half and I had to duct tape it back together, I'll take the books in harcover. I'm also really liking the heavier duty glossy pages. Very nice. Now, if only we had better artwork to look at on those nice glossy pages....

Well, I´m not as crazy as fistdantilus and otaku mike, but I like my books in AT LEAST mint condition. I´ve been known to buy PDFs just to have a printed copy to toss the players. And I NEVER lend books, specially hardcovers.

See? I´m not crazy.

On hardcovers: it´s better, although expensive. Whenever I can AND it´s available, I buy the hardcover version. Some of my oldest hardcover books still look as new as when I bought them.

It´s so good it should be an armor option in SR4.

Hardcover - your armor won´t be anymore resistant to bullets and whatever hits it, but it will look nice for longer.

And when you need to beat down a player over something in the book, it's more gratifying to pummel them over the head with a hardcover than a softcover, more damage... why are you looking at me like that?

What's the base DV of the new hardcover? How many net successes do you get on average?

SR1 had a softcover run... I've got one on my shelf.

The color insert pages fell out of both of my SR2 books. They fell out of one of my SR3 books, and didn't have a chance in the other... the spine disintegrated and I ended up stripping it off and using duct tape instead.

I've seen softcover books going for 30 bucks... charging 35 for a hardcover that (if my SR4 books are any indicator) do not fall apart is reasonable, in my mind.

Want to know a good way to defray costs? Be a GM, and simply charge all your players 5 bucks when a new book comes out for the copy you're going to bring to the game every week. It's worked pretty well so far...

So....we should give him some heavy body armor, and he will be tougher than Trolls every time....

Re: the durability issue. Yeah, I have an old SR3 that lost its color pages. I also have 2 that haven't.

Also, see Palladium books. All softcover, and I've never seen one fall apart. AD&D 2nd? Soft covers on 90 percent of the supplements. Still holding on like crazy.

It's not hard vs. soft so much as "we used a shitty printer that charged us less but sacrificed quality" vs. "we pay attention to our products". Combine the latter with knowing how to treat books, and you've got a long-lasting collection. (I'm not as anal as some , but I have been known to bite off heads when people throw my books across a room.)

So by your logic, all printers that use a generically termed style of binding must inherently do it in an equally adept manner?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I can show you two shops that print adhesive labels, using the same equipment and the same techniques, and the one that has well trained employees that care about their product will do a better job every time.

For further example, click the link to see the myriad printers that come up when you put "perfect bound" into Google. Think they all make the same quality product?

What logic? That we only have a tiny portion of the facts so your supposition means nothing? 'Cause that's my point.