I'm a long time rpg player and fledgling gm. I've spent most of my time in the d20 fantasy arena (seems hard to get away from it) but got into the Mutants and Masterminds system as soon as it came out (great system btw). I've dabbled into Shadowrun in the past but my current gaming group are hardcore d20 guys. I'm dying to either run or play a good, gritty, sci-fi game but I can't decide what system to use. I purchased the new Serenity sourcebook and it just doesn't have the depth that other sci-fi games do (i.e. Shadowrun).

I've read some of the reviews of Shadowrun v4 and it appears that they have streamlined some of the rules (not sure if that is good or bad). I also love the downtrodden cyberpunk theme too.

With that said, do you guys recommend SRv4 for fairly new players or is there another solid system to run? Or is that a stupid question to post on a SR board <grin>?

On this board, there is a divide between SR3 and SR4 fans. That being said, I think we would all agree that SR is the best scifi RPG for you group to try

For new players, I think 4th edition is a good place to start. The rules all fit in one book and they are probably easier for new players to pick up.

I don't have a lot of experience with other scifi RPGs. I've never played any of the following but they might be worth looking at.

-Cyberpunk 3rd edition
-Ex Machina (available in Tri Stat and d20 versions)
-d20 (Future, Cyberscape or Cybernet)
-Haven (not scifi but grim and gritty)

Hope that helps.

JKL

Thanks for the info. I've read some of the reviews for Ex-Machina (Tri-Stat) and SR4 and they both looked rather good. I guess the biggest difference would be the Tri-Stat rules versus the SR rules. I played SR3 a few times but the rules seemed more complex than d20 in comparison. But then again, I've been inundated with fantasy d20 for the past years.

SR4 is more forgiving for new players than SR3 is. The streamlining has resulted in some quirks but it has less unrealistic quirks than D20 does.

QLI's D20 version of Traveller is great (and get's rid of the HitPoint problem)

And it's Traveller: No feys, no Trolls and you get medals for shooting/burning the mages!

I wouldn't recommend Ex Machina as a game system, unless everyone already has experience with systems that have relatively complex point-based character generation [much more complex than SR4, IMO] -- Tri-Stat is one of those games where you need a decent understanding of how all the bits of the system work in order to create tweaked characters; if different players have different skill levels at hacking the game system, it's pretty easy to create something relatively unbalanced.

The settings in Ex Machina are pretty badass, though. They're worth mining for ideas.

[The d20 version never did come out and I doubt it ever will, btw]