I am starting a campaign and I don't want it to high powered right off the bat. I do not want to start the character off at 300 build points but i think 400 might be a little higher than i want. would 350 or 375 be better. Will it be a little weaker or will 400 be ok. Looking for opinions here. I want a lot of room for improvement. Is 400 to high or will less then that really underpower the game?

thanks

Trevor

How many build points isn't as big an issue as how you allow your players to spend them. Make sure you exercise the GM approval rule so that you don't get overly tuned characters, a 400 point generalist is still pretty low powered, a 375 point specialist could be reasonably powerful.

I'd go with 350 and strict GM approval (for the reasons Steve mentioned).

I used 320 BP for the group I was GMing, and it worked out pretty well for low-powered characters. Of course, if you have players who're crunchy, they'll find a way around it. As stated previously, use GM discretion on all character sheet approvals.

Ok the party is pretty new to Shadowrun but fairly veteran on roleplaying. I guess i can steer them to the generalization route to keep it where I want it.

...I am in a more lower power level campaign that has the following chargen requirements besides total BPs

BP 360 (180 max to standard attributes)
Max base Skill - [4] Specialisation allowed.
Max gear availability [8]
Max Magic/Resonance Attribute [4] (goes for both adepts, full mages, & Technos
Max starting Resources [25BP = 125,000]
Max Contact Connection [3] no restriction on Loyalty
Cha x 4 in free Contact points

[Joel....I think I have it right, feel free to correct me on any of the above]

A cap on total modified dice pool size to keep them in the range you want should be your guide. With the same 300 BP you can still get characters routinely using 15 or more dice on some tasks.

KK, It 's all right except the skill is set at a professional level which is 3.

DireRadiant, It's seems like if you use a 300 bp the character would have to be severely min-maxed to get 15 dp and inadequate in any other area.

3 guns, 7 agility elf. that's 10 dice pool right there before adding in, say, a smartlink, agility boosts, skill boosts from adept powers, or specialisation.

so, let's say i go a little lighter even, and make an elven adept who uses guns:

agi 6(7), automatics 3(4) (SMGs or whatever for specialisation), and smartlink, you're looking at 15 dice right there. (using improved physical attribute and improved skill)

furthermore, you can do it with a sammy as well:

agi 7(8 ) (gun skill of choice) 3 (specialisation) and smartlink. of course, it's a lot cheaper to just go with a DP of 14 for the sammy.

furthermore, let's consider, say, an elven face:

adepts:

kinesics 4 + charisma 7 + skill 3 + specialisation

or wired, you can get tailored pheromone's instead of kinesics.

it's not all that hard to get up to 15 dice, it doesn't even really cripple the character to do so (especially if the specialisation is what you do... i don't think anyone is gonna have too much sympathy for the sammy with high agility and gun skills lol)

The other problem with SR4 is that there is such a thin line between overpowered and totally ineffective. But I don't consider SR4 characters to be really overpowered. Sure, they can sling big handfuls of dice in some situations, but they are a far cry from untouchable. Starting characters out with less than the normal 400 build points is only a good idea if you want a "street level" game.

Which I've never understood, really. To me, one of the most appealing things about SR is that you start out as an established character - no mucking about fighting kobolds, and hoping that a stray sneeze doesn't kill you.

A low-powered game is a nice switch from normal SR, but it is actually more complicated than "normal" SR. I would recommend a low-powered game for an experienced GM and players, but a new GM who thinks that cutting back the power will make his job easier will be in for a rude awakening. It will be easier to hurt the characters, but nearly everything else will be harder.

Not to mention that the players, coming into a game of magic, elves, and guns with visions of John Woo and John Constantine dancing in their heads, will probably get disgusted with how weak and ineffective their characters are. It's fine if they want to play small-time criminals hoping to become real runners someday, but otherwise they will be very disappointed.


One final caveat to what Cain said - it is not too hard to create, say, a marksman or similar specialist. Get a high Agility, one high skill, and you still have plenty of points for other things. But some of the character types, such as technomancers, have such a wide range of necessary skills that they almost have to be generalists (and therefore start out a bit gimped compared to other characters). So remember that lower starting points won't really affect the characters you are worried about, but will affect the generalists. If you absolutely have to limit starting characters, you are better off lowering the starting maximum for skills and Attributes, forcing a certain amount of generalization on everyone, rather than cutting the total points.

An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is that there is a progression in gaming play styles (there is a thread around here somewhere that does a good explanation). When starting a new system most people try to figure out and play the most powerful character they can, after a while this gets old and there is a move towwards strange or unusual characters, then an extreme move back to very low power characters, which gradually balances itself out or tears a game apart when not everyone wants to go the same direction. Group dynamics can really affect this too some groups always stay in powergaming mode, others change every couple of sessions, some never really take the game to seriously and play just so they can go hang out with their friends without running up a $40 bar tab. If you're having fun that's what counts, unless the rest of the group is ready to tar & feather you and your on your 4th or 5th group then you may want to reconsider your playstyle.