Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Did Internet kill the RPG table?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > General Gaming
Demon_Bob
Sorry, but the game now conflicts with my new W. of W. schedule so I will have to drop it.

Over the past couple of years I have been in three different groups with three different GMs where someone has quit the game to play some online game.

WHAT?? Ok, so I don't get it. Aren't online games 24/7?


The other question, is how would a person go about playing a live game with someone at another location.
Adam
A lot of people who play MMORPGs have a schedule -- certain times that their guild meets to raid, or they play with a handful of people who set aside a few hours a couple nights a week to play "together". One of my old gaming groups does this with WoW now, since the group is now scattered across the country.

Live games with someone in another location -- could be done over IM, or using some sort of voice/video chat programs. There are a lot of options for that sort of thing now.
nezumi
I've never had a game cancelled because of online considerations, nor have I had difficulty finding players.

But then again, I only run online games.
Witness
It's a shame, but I can see it might happen.

Physically getting together and playing a non-online pen-and-paper RPG does have some clear advantages over any online game. You get to sit around with friends, in comfortable chairs, with beer and pizza etc. The PnPRPG allows you to exercise much more imagination, and do much more proper story-telling.

No point trying to compete with MMORPGs in some ways, but there's more than enough going for a real world session as long as you can make it fun, relaxing etc.

It helps, I think, if people don't have to travel too far. It also helps if you're all good friends anyway. Some of my friends have kids now, and I bet I'd hardly ever see them if it wasn't for our regular wednesday nights.

(I wonder if it is a coincidence that there is a trend towards more freeform RPG systems these days? Maybe it's because you can now get your number-crunching and routine monster-bashing from MMORPGs so the emphasis in PnPRPGs has now moved towards plots and stories, without reams of rules to get in the way?)
SL James
I only game online, so I may be biased. But I think you are completely wrong.

QUOTE (Witness)
Physically getting together and playing a non-online pen-and-paper RPG does have some clear advantages over any online game. You get to sit around with friends,

Genchat.

QUOTE
in comfortable chairs,

my desk chair beats the folding chairs at the FLGS.

QUOTE
with beer

Posting Under the Influence. Good times.

QUOTE
and pizza etc.

My toppings, and not having to share.

QUOTE
The PnPRPG allows you to exercise much more imagination, and do much more proper story-telling.

I beg to differ.

Those links are just 4 parts of a 20-part campaign which also has 6 fiction components, and is based on a 42-page short story and at least 18 months of RL role-playing across the rest of Shadowland and 3 years of events IC, and background tie-ins going back almost a quarter-century in the characters' past.

Playing online actually made it easier to make it a good story rather than a bunch of random interactions people have as I'd go around the table since the first 6 months or so that I was running the campaign consisted of each PC doing something completely unrelated to the other 12.

That's another thing. You try getting 13 Players to meet for a tabletop game.
deek
Many "experts" say that body language is 75% of one's communication...

I can definitely see how online PnPRPGs could work and can actually be better when you have several side plots or character's taking individual activities...but I don't think the Internet killed the RPG table...

In some ways it can enhance it. In a DnD campaign I play in, our DM does some IC stuff with us between game dates, which is basically a weekly game...but I would much rather play with all of us sitting around a table than starting at my monitor.

But I do agree, getting 13 players together at once is a monumental task, not to mention how chaotic the game would go if they were all together in one room!
Witness
I suppose I was primarily comparing round-the-table RPG play with MMORPGs, SL. Playing PnPRPGs online is something else again, but I don't think the original post was about that so much.
Rajaat99
I know 9 people who play MMORPG's instead of table top and there's a few reasons why:
1) They can play anytime, day or night.
2) They don't have to put up with the players outside of game.
3) They like making people mad (and there are consiquences when in front of someone).
4) If they don't bathe, nobody cares.
5) Pretty pictures.
6) They don't have to roleplay, they just have to go kill.
7) No travel.

I believe that 1 and 3 are their main reasons, but these are what I got from them.
I know a lot of people who play both. These 9 play MMORPG's exclusively.
So, are MMORPG's killing table top RPG's? No, but they are hurting.
For me, taxes are killing all my fun.
SL James
QUOTE (Witness @ Jul 8 2006, 02:07 AM)
I suppose I was primarily comparing round-the-table RPG play with MMORPGs, SL. Playing PnPRPGs online is something else again, but I don't think the original post was about that so much.

Your point seemed to meander, but I see it now in retrospect.
Demon_Bob
OK, So I have to ask what exactly does the abbreviations MMORPGs and PnPRPGs stand for?
deek
QUOTE (Demon_Bob)
OK, So I have to ask what exactly does the abbreviations MMORPGs and PnPRPGs stand for?

MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (like World of Warcraft)
PnPRPG = Pencil and Paper Role Playing Gaming (and in this context, I was assuming we are talking about any RPG system that you would normally play at a table, but online).
Samoth
Just be happy you can find ANY groups. I live in a big city and I can't find any players. (Columbus, Ohio)
BrianL03
While going to online for my Shadowrun gaming needs (as my friends and I are all scattered across the States now because of school and military reasons) has had its benefits, such as being able to have the game going 24/7 with people able to put much more detail into their characters, actions, and permitting me the opportunity to think of a reply for the Johnson to X statement, I've felt a lot of sadness about it too.

Due to our no longer being face to face, or having to make stuff up on the fly, a lot of the humor inherent in the game has disappeared. Off the wall comments about our character's actions (going swimming in a sewage canal and having my dwarf forced to adopt the title "Shitbeard"), doing the completely unexpected (the troll has to get us into the fenced perimeter so he... throws us through the fence), and so on. I miss that stuff, as helpful as being online is.

The biggest problem for me is getting into new groups. I tried doing it a bit ago, and probably would have been able to do just fine, but, no offense here, I've started to become more and more put-off by the regular (and almost stereotypical) RPG nerd. Look, I may love the ideas you're floating about the campaign, but can you please talk about something else for crying out loud? I try to steer conversation off to something else, but it invariably (and almost in a matter of seconds) winds up becoming the other person's monologue about their story and so on. And that really bothers me. I want to game with people, but most of those I've met thus far seem to have it as the sole aspect of their one-facet life.

I need to kidnap my friends and bring them to my new uni with me.
eidolon
If I'm GMing a game, and somebody can't make a scheduled or regular game because they have a "guild raid" or the like, that player is generally out of my game (especially if it is a frequent thing).

To me, RPGs are as much if not more a social interaction as they are a game. For example, I see above that a reason for playing online is that you don't have to deal with the players out of the game. I look at it differently, because I refuse to game with someone that I can't also be friends with. Groups work best when you're just as comfortable going to see a movie as a group as you are playing a game. Not every group can always be perfect friends all around, but if you flat don't like/can't take someone in the group, why deal with them?

I despise MMORPGs in general, for various reasons. Nearly all of them have to do with the lack of personal and social interaction (I've had a friend defend MMORPGs as being social because they use Team Speak..that's nowhere near the same, and to me is an invalid comparison). The rest of the reasons have to do with paying more than once for a video game, or the lack of a story aspect more interesting than "Hey, can you carry this across town for me? My legs don't work". wink.gif

Firewire
I just moved to Nashville, TN. Since moving here, I have tried profusely tried to get a group of gamers together. I work at a tech support call center for a computer company. There are a nearly unlimited number of geeks available to me (not saying only geeks PnPRPG, but they make up a decent amount of those that do). There is nothing more frustrating than asking someone if they do PnPRPG and them saying "Naw, man. But if you have a FPS or play WoW then I'd be happy to play one of those."

I understand some people prefer those kind of games, but out of the nearly 4 dozen people I've asked not a one has wanted to even discuss the possibility of playing. One guy even saw I had the SR 4th ed. Book on my desk, picked it up, and goes "DUDE!!!! I LOVE SHADOWRUN!!!! I didn't even know they made this game anymore!!!!" But when I asked him if he'd be willing to play, he calmly put down the book, said "Nope. When I'm not at work or sleeping, I'm playing WoW," and promptly walked away.

I was shocked. People where I work who play WoW (literally 50-60% of the staff) typically do have that mentality. They can't comprehend doing something else. To keep currenty and get the best gear they all have to maintain massive amounts of playtime. Many of their guilds have a mandatory raiding policy. If they don't raid at least twice a week, their character gets suspended or kicked from the guild. It's ridiculous.

Even the MMORPG concept baffles me. I know there are those that disagree with me (obviously), but I played WoW from first day open 'til last Christmas. So, I have more than a year's experience with WoW alone. The only point I see with WoW is "kill this guy" - "take his loot" - "use that loot to kill this guy" - "take his loot" - "use the new loot to kill a new guy" - "take his ...." You get the idea. I know there's storyline, but how many people ever pay attention. Storyline is my favorite part of a game, and I never once noticed the storyline in WoW.

I understand that is the point of Shadowrun in a very simplified, not well GMed game. But in SR there is so much more: building contacts and relationships, learning what its like to be someone else by playing a different personality, setting goals, and so much more. Not to mention the fact that there is so much less linearity in a PnPRPG. In an MMORPG your quest general looks like "get this for me" or "kill x amount of this guy" and in the end how many ways are there really to go get that item? Typically no matter how good your stealth is (which typically only one class has access to) you still end up in a fight. Shadowrun allows you as much possibility as your imagination can handle.

Typically, especially in end-game type quests/fights, you need a massive amount of people and they can only be accomplished with the correct ratio of classes and a set plan that each group who goes to fight it either knows or dies. This doesn't even come close to something I'd consider fun, let alone a simulation of reality.

But to each his own. I just wish PnPRPGers weren't such a dying breed.
SuperFly
In the ten years I've been playing Shadowrun, I have never once played a game face-to-face. Every single session I've ever been in was played over IRC's Undernet in either #S-Run, #Shadowrun, or some channel created specifically for that game. For me, I could not imagine RP'ing any other way because the immersion, detail, and sheer 'believability' of online RP'ing couldn't possibly be replicated over a tabletop.

When I play an RPG over the internet, I am surrounded by the characters portrayed by those players in the game. A troll is a scary ass troll who could pull my arms off, not some scrawny college buddy saying, "Fear me, for i can roll many dice". Online RP'ings only downfall is it's lack of speed, but I would gladly sacrifice being able to play through an entire week of combat in 6 hours to immerse myself in a detailed storyline written just for the RP'ers involved.

So for me, the internet didn't kill the tabletop RPG -- it's what's keeping it going -- allowing players and GM's from around the world to gather in one place and enjoy the games they love. I know that I've fallen into the MMO trap a few times, but I always lose interest in them after a few months because of the repetativeness and low quality of people surrounding me.

Many of you may know that Dumpshock began on Undernet, then moved on to its own servers and to do its own thing. It is acknowledged as the most widely-used and largest of all Shadowrun resources, which it undoubtedly is. Sadly, its strengths are no longer with IRC gaming, which is why the #S-Run Shadowrun Community still exists on Undernet. If any of you are looking for a game, a GM, free players, or just to hang out and shoot the drek -- I urge you to give #S-Run a try.

Our website is www.s-run.com, and we are the largest (yes, really) and most active IRC Shadowrun Gaming group on the internet. There are games running nearly every night of the week year round, with multiple sessions running side-by-side in seperate channels quite frequently. There's no reason for anyone to say they don't have a group to play with when all the Shadowrun gaming goodness you'll ever need is right here! What's important to us is that people start PLAYING the game again, and our goal is to keep that going.

To get to the channels on IRC, just follow the instructions in the '#S-Run FAQ' (to get your own program) or just use the handy Java Applet on the website under '#S-Run IRC Chat'.
Shadow
This advertisement was brought to you by the Friendly Corporation. Remember, Run Smart, Run S-Run!
eidolon
That was your first thought too, huh?
ronin3338
Here's my 2¥:

I don't play MMORPGs. I like face-to-face, because I like being social with my friends. We tried having some play with us "remotely" but it didn't work out.
I enjoy console and PC RPGs, but given the option, I'd rather spend time playing a game with other people that enjoy it in a friendly social setting, than typing it all in.
SuperFly
I take a lot of offense to those statements, you two. If you want to split hairs, Dumpshock is far more of a 'corporation' in the essence that it has multiple parties with controlling interests. #S-Run began as just a channel, then I inherited leadership of it. After seeing the sharp decline in IRC SR Roleplaying, I decided to take the bull by the horns and spearhead a movement to bring IRC SR back into popularity....And voila -- it's a success.

All the money that has been invested into the #S-Run Community (at current count, about $2,000 USD) was footed by me, straight from my pocketbook, without any fundraisers, donations, or financial aid. The free prizes given away in the monthly drawings were all purchased by me, and are mailed to the contest winners free-of-charge to stimulate growth and interest in the website, and thus traffic to the IRC channels.

The website is maintained by me and me alone, with content either submitted by #S-Run patrons, or created by myself. I do it because I love Shadowrun, and it gives me the opportunity to offer an outlet to others to share in the love of the game and present their own ideas and storylines to the public.

So please, don't troll #S-Run without first knowing a little bit about what the real situation is.
grendel
Porthos: Oh, he's a fiesty one.

Aramis: Fiesty, indeed.
SuperFly
Rawr.
Jrayjoker
Don't knock them too hard. You did dound a little like a corporate PR guy for a second there. wink.gif

I have seen some of the transcripts for the #S-Run games, the people playing them certainly seem to have a lot of fun.
Gabriel (Argus #2323)
MMORPGs are like hardcore drugs. Your friends start using them and you hardly see them anymore. When you do see them they're using terminology you've never heard before. Their social life suffers. PnPRPGs and normal non-MMO RPGs are like the alcohol to the MMORPGs crack. It's less addictive and more social.

It's really just a matter of personal preferance and trade-offs. If you love gaming and you have the time to dump into MMORPGs, you'll have a freakin blast. If you like to game but have to devote time to work or school or a relationship, you may not be able to "keep up" with other players and may not have as much fun; single player games might be good for you. I will always enjoy the old-school PnP RPGs; I buy the books once and play it a bunch, I can make up my own rules as I go, I do this maybe once a week tops, I hang out with my friends and have a good time, and I occasionally get to meet new people who live near me...

It's all just a game anyway. We play to have fun. To each his own. Or pwn, I guess.
Shadow
Sorry Sfly, it just so happened that I read another post of yours that was nearly identical to this one over in the Shadowrun forums. And I was thinking about Army of darkness and BC standing around saying 'Shop Smart, shop... S-Mart!' And I was all, how could I fit that in?

I am sure S-run is fantastic, and if I had anytime or interest in a chat game it would be the place to go. As it is I really only play PnP games on DSF. I know the people, the community, I have ties, I'm legitimate! Unfortunately I live in BFE Alaska (not for long!) and I don't have access to a table top game. I imagine when I am in SD and I can play in a game (please god let me play in a game) I will have less interest in it.

There is something about sitting face to face with your other players that is infinitely better (imho) than WoW or even DSF. DSF lets you really get into your characters, WoW lets you immerse yourself visually into the game world. Sitting around the table though is magic. It's like a really good meal, you can't predict it, and it's hard to duplicate, but when the magic happens, every second of it is worth it!
SuperFly
QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 14 2006, 02:18 PM)
There is something about sitting face to face with your other players that is infinitely better (imho) than WoW or even DSF. DSF lets you really get into your characters, WoW lets you immerse yourself visually into the game world. Sitting around the table though is magic. It's like a really good meal, you can't predict it, and it's hard to duplicate, but when the magic happens, every second of it is worth it!

Getting deep into the characters is what I love best about IRC gaming (keep in mind that when I say we have games, they are real sessioned games, not 'free form' role play events).

Maybe my imagination is just stunted, but I really could not see immersing myself as deeply as I could in an IRC game while sitting around a table staring at a the face of a player who's SUPPOSED to be someone else. I could do it when i was 12-14 and my cousin and I would play all manner of FtF games sprinkled with some LARP, but not now.

I've also looked over the DSF "play by post" games and I find these to be maddeningly slow, but the closest thing to IRC gaming that I've seen in terms of immersion and creative writing.

Basically, as long as people are playing the game instead of just sitting around debating rules and creating characters they'll never use -- that is what counts for me. So more power to it all.

P.S. Speaking of games, there's an open SR3 pickup game starting in about 30 minutes (current time is 6pm CST / 7pm EST) if anyone wants to get in on the action and/or lurk.
SuperFly
QUOTE
I have seen some of the transcripts for the #S-Run games, the people playing them certainly seem to have a lot of fun.


Yeah, we always have a great time in and out of games.

QUOTE
Don't knock them too hard. You did dound a little like a corporate PR guy for a second there.  wink.gif


LOL, maybe, but I have to get the word out somehow, right?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012