OK, so, a while back I wrote a SR3 module for beginners and posted it here on DSF: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...l=mullet+police
The module was dealing with mullet police, Chuck Norris, and inappropriate use of force in rural areas of the North American continent. At the time, I was only inspired by Walker: Texas Ranger and Damage Incorporated. However, I was watching TV just now and one of those shows that shows police video. I actually watched a bunch of grungy mullet police in mismatched uniforms try and raid a home. It's like the module, only real!
I don't know what part of the US the video was shot in but this is how it went down: Four police officers stopped by someone's house to raid it for some reason. I'll call them numbers one through four. Number one looked like he was wearing a Chuck Norris costume. He had messy hair and wore a jean jacket and blue jeans and had a vest on under his jean jacket. On his thigh was strapped a pistol. He really was like an 80s re-enactor. Number two was a guy wearing a blue windbreaker type jacket and green camo pants. Number three was a frumpy slightly overweight woman whom I didn't get a good look at, and number four was an officer in a full state trooper uniform holding a shotgun who was mostly off camera. Numbers one through three were only equipped with vests and pistols.
The raid itself was pretty messy. Numbers one and two went and leaned against the house on each side of the front door and got their pistols ready. At this point they were pointing them down. I looked away from the screen at this point, but the next thing that I knew number three was under fire from inside the house so she dropped prone behind a woodpile that was near the porch of the house; I don't think she was hit.
Number one started screaming that they were "shooting at her", and then number one and two barged in the front door. They camera didn't show what happened inside the house but I heard a bunch of shots, less than ten in total. Numbers one and two actually ran back out the front door and number one was grabbing his chest; a round had hit the edge of his armor and gave him a flesh wound. Number one pointed his handgun upwards and held it near his face Hollywood style (for real) and took a few seconds to drop his magazine on the porch and load a new one. In later interviews number one said that at this point he was really pissed off because he had been hit, and indeed a moment later he barges back into the house and shoots the guy inside dead.
A few images from inside the house were broadcasted. I saw maybe like 6 bullet holes in the wall which they chose to show us. Someone clearly shot a lot and missed a lot at very close range.
I'm not a cop nor am I in the military, but I wondered why the police were raiding the house with only handguns. Aren't handguns supposed to be your backup, whereas if you're actually planning to raid a place or get into a shootout you're supposed to use a carbine, rifle, shotgun, or submachinegun?
I also wondered why the cops were in such mismatched uniforms. They really, really seemed exactly like the characters I wrote in http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...l=mullet+police in all honesty.
Of course, this being DSF, probably some guy in the military will reply to this thread and be like, "You moron armchair warrior, don't you know they did it correctly after all" and I'll have no chance but to fall into silent armchair warrior embarassment.
Full Version: Oh my god, the mullet police are real!
If you have a chance, pick up a rifle or shotgun. Now go stand in the middle of a hallway--preferrably one as wide as in your average house. Raise your rifle or shotgun to your shoulder, and then turn around really quickly. Now try it in a mobile home, which generally has narrower hallways.
That's why they use pistols. Plus, you know, shooting at people inside a house with a rifle is generally a bad idea.
As for how Number One holds his gun, cops aren't involved in a whole lot of shootings, and so what little training they get sometimes goes out the window. If you ever saw the video of the X number of LA Sheriffs deputies blasting away at a Chevy Suburban in Compton (over 100-120 rounds were fired), at one point one of the deputies uses his pistol as a pointer to tell the cameraman to go back inside. Crazy shit happens.
That's why they use pistols. Plus, you know, shooting at people inside a house with a rifle is generally a bad idea.
As for how Number One holds his gun, cops aren't involved in a whole lot of shootings, and so what little training they get sometimes goes out the window. If you ever saw the video of the X number of LA Sheriffs deputies blasting away at a Chevy Suburban in Compton (over 100-120 rounds were fired), at one point one of the deputies uses his pistol as a pointer to tell the cameraman to go back inside. Crazy shit happens.
If you have a dowel, about one meter long, maybe a little less, you can also get a general idea of the problems.
And yeah, you never know what's on the other side of that exterior wall.
~J
And yeah, you never know what's on the other side of that exterior wall.
~J
silence, armchair warrior!
SMGs might be better than pistols for close-in fighting, but pistols are generally better than longarms for the reason James just stated--they're more maneuverable and less likely to get caught on something.
not sure about the uniforms. my impression from what little TV i've watched is that cops who aren't patrolmen don't wear their uniform for most of the stuff they do.
SMGs might be better than pistols for close-in fighting, but pistols are generally better than longarms for the reason James just stated--they're more maneuverable and less likely to get caught on something.
not sure about the uniforms. my impression from what little TV i've watched is that cops who aren't patrolmen don't wear their uniform for most of the stuff they do.
But you're missing the real issue here: why mullets?
For many years now, I've wondered what exactly a person must be thinking to believe that a mullet is an acceptable hair style. Full-grown men or women, even clumsy law enforcement officers in the rural south, have no excuse for sporting mullets.
I had a mullet when I was 10, but that was 1990, and I was 10! Maybe I'll dig up an old photo and post it for you
Of course, now I have dreadlocks, a much more socially-acceptable hairstyle 
Dread Polack
For many years now, I've wondered what exactly a person must be thinking to believe that a mullet is an acceptable hair style. Full-grown men or women, even clumsy law enforcement officers in the rural south, have no excuse for sporting mullets.
I had a mullet when I was 10, but that was 1990, and I was 10! Maybe I'll dig up an old photo and post it for you
Of course, now I have dreadlocks, a much more socially-acceptable hairstyle Dread Polack
Chances are they were undercover cops doing a raid. The blue jean jacket guy probably had his badge on a chain around his neck. The guy with the windbreaker probably had Police written on it. Who knows I didnt see the show. Even when plain clothes go on a raid theyll take uniform officers, makes the "I didnt know they were cops." arguement less likely.
EDIT: mfb is correct for the most part. Patrol men, high ranking officers and SWAT usually wear uniforms. For police that confront the citizens all the time they wear uniforms to be esialy distinguished. SWAT does it because their clothing is tactical. Undercover, detectives adn special units like gang units generally wear what ever they want. Its funny because these special units dress in plain clothes to "hide" or blend in with criminals, but most times its white guys in black neighborhoods and they are driving unmarked Crown Victorias, basically a cop car with out the stickers and lights.
EDIT: mfb is correct for the most part. Patrol men, high ranking officers and SWAT usually wear uniforms. For police that confront the citizens all the time they wear uniforms to be esialy distinguished. SWAT does it because their clothing is tactical. Undercover, detectives adn special units like gang units generally wear what ever they want. Its funny because these special units dress in plain clothes to "hide" or blend in with criminals, but most times its white guys in black neighborhoods and they are driving unmarked Crown Victorias, basically a cop car with out the stickers and lights.
the mullet is an essential piece of protective wear, noob! you see, the mullet naturally forces the eyes of onlookers away from its wearer. it's very difficult to shoot something you're not looking at, unless you're Robocop. therefore, most police units issue mullets to officers headed into the line of fire.
One of the concerns that you've got fighting in someone's house is the length of your weapon. Rifles and shotguns, while very effective, are long. Most submachineguns are not overly long, but are still noticeably longer than a pistol (the MP5, a common law enforcement choice for a submachinegun, is a little over two feet long with a stock attached). This means that, as you go through a door or around a corner, someone standing next to the object you're passing can grab the muzzle of your weapon and effectively neutralize it, leaving you close enough to the guy (and whatever he's got in his other hand) for him to do pretty much whatever he wants. This is a simple way to get shot or stabbed repeatedly, especially when you're clearing rooms that the other party is familiar with, and you are not.
Most techniques for weapon retention with handguns involve pulling them in towards your body, back towards your shoulder or hip where they can still be fired but cannot be grabbed or controlled by the person you're fighting. A longer gun, especially one with a stock, is more difficult to maneuver back in towards your body in such a way that it doesn't interfere with movement and still allows you to fire accurately (at short distances) from the hip or off the shoulder.
It may also be that the officers don't get a lot of training time with weapons other than their sidearms. Based on their dress, it seems possible that they might be undercover or plainsclothes officers, in which case they would (hopefully) be well-trained with their concealable sidearm, but you could see how they might not get much range time with submachineguns or shotguns.
Most of my personal training for combative situations is with handguns. I've got zero range time on submachineguns (as they're illegal in this state, and I don't get to shoot out of state too much). Given a choice between the two and a door to kick down, I'd want the handgun I know how to shoot, unjam, and reload in a stressful situation, even though the submachinegun provides more firepower.
This should not be interpreted to mean that the guys you were watching weren't a bunch of 80s rejects with poor tactics and bad haircuts
Most techniques for weapon retention with handguns involve pulling them in towards your body, back towards your shoulder or hip where they can still be fired but cannot be grabbed or controlled by the person you're fighting. A longer gun, especially one with a stock, is more difficult to maneuver back in towards your body in such a way that it doesn't interfere with movement and still allows you to fire accurately (at short distances) from the hip or off the shoulder.
It may also be that the officers don't get a lot of training time with weapons other than their sidearms. Based on their dress, it seems possible that they might be undercover or plainsclothes officers, in which case they would (hopefully) be well-trained with their concealable sidearm, but you could see how they might not get much range time with submachineguns or shotguns.
Most of my personal training for combative situations is with handguns. I've got zero range time on submachineguns (as they're illegal in this state, and I don't get to shoot out of state too much). Given a choice between the two and a door to kick down, I'd want the handgun I know how to shoot, unjam, and reload in a stressful situation, even though the submachinegun provides more firepower.
This should not be interpreted to mean that the guys you were watching weren't a bunch of 80s rejects with poor tactics and bad haircuts
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Plus, you know, shooting at people inside a house with a rifle is generally a bad idea. |
With the right type of frangible ammunition, .223 will actually fragment in wallboard noticeably sooner than most handgun ammunition. The lighter, smaller bullet combined with the huge jump in kinetic energy basically means it has an easier time tearing itself apart.
Right. But what are the chances this PD even knows about frangible ammo? It's not like the Secret Service, which has recurring annual contracts to buy frangible pistol ammo.
*shrug* You'd hope that most police forces would put at least some token effort into studying overpenetration.
Do the mullet police? Who knows?
Do the mullet police? Who knows?
I would hope, but I'm not optimistic to actually do it.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| silence, armchair warrior! |
*dies of shame*
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) | ||
*dies of shame* |
Leaves flower on grave to thank WR for starting a thread which brought useful information to armchair warriors everywhere.
...Eyes up widow.
The police do look into overpenetration and many other forms of non lethal or "over" lethal weapons. Where it comes to acquiring those weapons is in budgets and risk management. If the local law enforcement isnt persuasive to convince the bean counters and the moronic people in government to spend the money on these weapons the police dont get them. With risk managment you have to prove that using these weapons will save money in the long run. If you have ever seen Fight Club, Ed Norton was in risk managment. The car with the dead body in it was determined to be caused by a minor faulty part, it would have cost millions to issue a call back on the vehicles with that part. The determined the risk of those types of accidents to be so minor that they were willing to risk millions in possible wrongful death suits instead of spending the money to avoid those deaths to begin with. Then you also have political considerations. Some people in power dont like change or new technology. They sometimes fight the change tooth and nail and in a dubious and generally unproven situation some people have claimed people in power wont let a new technology get into government hands with out considerable kick backs.
Um I think you were describing an episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter. Duane "Dog" Chapman and his cronies harrasing criminals all over hawaii.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ale...exzstar/dog.jpg
Best pic of him and his fat ugly wife I could find in 10 seconds on yahoo.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ale...exzstar/dog.jpg
Best pic of him and his fat ugly wife I could find in 10 seconds on yahoo.
They probably use pistols because they don't have anything else, or that they don't have any training/feel comfortable with the larger stuff.
An MP5 is small enough to pose no problem handling in-doors. It isn't longer than an outstretched arm with a gun in hand. An M4 is a bit longer and something like shooting down a hallway from a door might be problematic if you need to bob in and out, but generally even that length isn't a problem. If you need to turn in the middle of a doorway, of course you don't do it with the rifle/smg at horizontal, you lower, turn, raise - which most also do in the open, since you don't want to swing a rifle wildly, you want it remain in control so you can land a hit fast.
A weapon with a stock is much easier and quicker to aim with. You land the first shot faster and with better precision than with a pistol, and you recover from recoil much faster.
Pistols are for people who don't have better, don't have training with better, or don't have 2 free hands to handle a weapon.
An MP5 is small enough to pose no problem handling in-doors. It isn't longer than an outstretched arm with a gun in hand. An M4 is a bit longer and something like shooting down a hallway from a door might be problematic if you need to bob in and out, but generally even that length isn't a problem. If you need to turn in the middle of a doorway, of course you don't do it with the rifle/smg at horizontal, you lower, turn, raise - which most also do in the open, since you don't want to swing a rifle wildly, you want it remain in control so you can land a hit fast.
A weapon with a stock is much easier and quicker to aim with. You land the first shot faster and with better precision than with a pistol, and you recover from recoil much faster.
Pistols are for people who don't have better, don't have training with better, or don't have 2 free hands to handle a weapon.
| QUOTE (Kyuhan) |
| Um I think you were describing an episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter. Duane "Dog" Chapman and his cronies harrasing criminals all over hawaii. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ale...exzstar/dog.jpg Best pic of him and his fat ugly wife I could find in 10 seconds on yahoo. |
Eeek, no, it wasn't that guy.
Or for police forces that can't afford MP-5s, let alone training for them.
New rule for police forces: if police officers have mullets then the following must be true:
There must be 5 officers in any team, no more and no less. They may be accompanied by an experienced commander or a mysterious stranger.
Each team must consist of 1)The Stoic Leader, 2)The Rebelious Loner, 3)The Girl, 4)The Kid, and 5) The Big Guy
The Girl may be a homosexual male if the Stoic Leader and the Rebelious Loner swing that way. The Stoic Leader and The Rebelious Loner may be female only if they are also butch lesbians and The Girl is a feminine lesbian or bisexual. It is important that The Girl be a potential love interest to both charcters so that they can fight over her during missions.
Child labor laws will not apply to The Kid for some reason. No one will ever mention or consider the morality of using children in a police force. The Kid must be a genius who is both more skilled and more competent than any other team member.
The Big Guy may be fat or muscular. Either eay he will be both strong and from either the Continental US, The former USSR, or a Pacific Island.
Police Officers must call out the names of their attacks. For example, an officer who fires a single shot from a 9mm Glock 18 using a weaver stance would call out "Glock Eighteen Nine Milimeter Weaver Shot" before firing.
In addition to their standard issue sidearms, each team member must carry the following weapons:
The Stoic Leader) Either a pistol so powerful that only one person in the world can fire it without suffering fatal injuries from the recoil or a really cool sword.
The Rebelious Loner) Either a gun that is cooler than The Leader's Sword or a sword that is cooler than The Stoic Leader's gun.
The Girl) Either a whip of some sort (including chains, yoyos, and magical cutting wire) or a pink longbow.
The Kid) Either a versitile collection of deadly toys or a supercomputer.
The Big Guy) Either nothing but his massive strength or a sterotypical cultural object (such as a device that launches C4 charges that are the size and shape of an American football)
The Mysterious Stranger/The Experienced Commander) A rifle even more powerful than The Stoic Leader's Pistol or a sword even cooler than The Stoic Leader's Sword
Every team member must have a custom vehicle, even The Kid who is not yet old enough to get a driver's license. Potential vehicles include not-quite-street-legal sports cars, jet powered motorcycles, boats, airplanes, and anything Italian. Transformation and combination abilities are allowed but not required.
Maybe I'm just going to far when mixing my cliches. But who wouldn't want to see Don Johnson on a Sentai team?
There must be 5 officers in any team, no more and no less. They may be accompanied by an experienced commander or a mysterious stranger.
Each team must consist of 1)The Stoic Leader, 2)The Rebelious Loner, 3)The Girl, 4)The Kid, and 5) The Big Guy
The Girl may be a homosexual male if the Stoic Leader and the Rebelious Loner swing that way. The Stoic Leader and The Rebelious Loner may be female only if they are also butch lesbians and The Girl is a feminine lesbian or bisexual. It is important that The Girl be a potential love interest to both charcters so that they can fight over her during missions.
Child labor laws will not apply to The Kid for some reason. No one will ever mention or consider the morality of using children in a police force. The Kid must be a genius who is both more skilled and more competent than any other team member.
The Big Guy may be fat or muscular. Either eay he will be both strong and from either the Continental US, The former USSR, or a Pacific Island.
Police Officers must call out the names of their attacks. For example, an officer who fires a single shot from a 9mm Glock 18 using a weaver stance would call out "Glock Eighteen Nine Milimeter Weaver Shot" before firing.
In addition to their standard issue sidearms, each team member must carry the following weapons:
The Stoic Leader) Either a pistol so powerful that only one person in the world can fire it without suffering fatal injuries from the recoil or a really cool sword.
The Rebelious Loner) Either a gun that is cooler than The Leader's Sword or a sword that is cooler than The Stoic Leader's gun.
The Girl) Either a whip of some sort (including chains, yoyos, and magical cutting wire) or a pink longbow.
The Kid) Either a versitile collection of deadly toys or a supercomputer.
The Big Guy) Either nothing but his massive strength or a sterotypical cultural object (such as a device that launches C4 charges that are the size and shape of an American football)
The Mysterious Stranger/The Experienced Commander) A rifle even more powerful than The Stoic Leader's Pistol or a sword even cooler than The Stoic Leader's Sword
Every team member must have a custom vehicle, even The Kid who is not yet old enough to get a driver's license. Potential vehicles include not-quite-street-legal sports cars, jet powered motorcycles, boats, airplanes, and anything Italian. Transformation and combination abilities are allowed but not required.
Maybe I'm just going to far when mixing my cliches. But who wouldn't want to see Don Johnson on a Sentai team?
Hyzmarca, I think you just described Team Knight Rider
That and a bit Miami Vice.
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