So in our game last night the question of just what the power and limitations of the Control Thoughts spell came up. I'm curious what other people allow to be done with it in their games?
Can you for example use it to compell one ganger to shoot his friend?
How about compell a guard to let you past a check-point?
Is the Target aware he's under the influence of control thoughts?
Does he remember what he did under the control of the spell?
If you've got stories of creative uses post away!
Full Version: Control Thoughts Spell
There is a bit about this in the book under manipulation spells (in general). Not as much as you want though.
| QUOTE (silhouette) |
| There is a bit about this in the book under manipulation spells (in general). Not as much as you want though. |
That's what led to the questions, the sort of open ended nature of the spell description in the BBB. Depending on how you interpret Control Thoughts, Control Actions could become a completely redundant spell.
| QUOTE (stevebugge) |
| Can you for example use it to compell one ganger to shoot his friend? How about compell a guard to let you past a check-point? Is the Target aware he's under the influence of control thoughts? Does he remember what he did under the control of the spell? |
Opinion.
Generally the answer is Yes.
Note that the spell is a mental command so there are several things I might apply to the results. The target will attempt to accomplish the command in their own way.
First thing I would consider is a threshold of some kind. If the spell succeeds with 4 or more net hits then I would rule that the command is carried out effectively. Below 4 net hits I might apply those difference as a negative modifier for the targets actions.
e.g. The ganger shooting his friend. The spell might have only 2 net hits, so I would apply a negative dice modifier to the Gangers shooting attempt.
During the spell the target might be aware of strange thoughts but will carry out the commands, afterwards, the target would certainly be fuilly aware of being compelled. Use Alter Memory to cover up.
Remember as GM you can modify the threshold for the results as well if the situation seems extremely against the targets natural wishes. The spell will suceed, but not very well.
I don't see how that follows. Control Body is useful for noncombat/technical situations, for example if you just want to quickly and quietly kidnap someone ("get in the car"). You really need Control Thoughts if you want them to do anything requiring tests, like fighting for you or bluffing your way through a checkpoint (con test to tell the sec guard at his place of employment that you're a prospective customer/client coming in for an office visit after your breakfast meeting).
Control Body/Mob Control is still useful as a low drain way to cause confusion or take someone out of the fight. Those three sec guards you made start shooting at their buddies will distract attention/be nullified even if they aren't actually likely to hit anything with their willpower dice drain. Or have them throw their weapons off, strip naked, go in a room and lock the door, whatever. Plenty of useful control situations don't require dice rolls and two points of drain savings are never a bad thing.
To answer the original questions, control thoughts will let you make a guard do pretty much anything, including shoot his buddy. ("Wow, I suddenly realize he's an imposter and he's about to go for his gun!") Suicides are the only thing that concern me. A one net hit killer is pretty bad, although it does depend on him having a gun, not botching it, and not being tackled and restrained as soon as he draws it and aims it at himself. I'd probably let a free and automatic second will resistance test at most, though. You can always just have him lie and down and do the shooting in the head yourself, after all.
I think of control thoughts as a powerful form of hypnotism. You're unaware your thoughts are not your own, and you may seem unusually focused or distant to observers while you're under its effect. After the spell ends you realize your thoughts wer enot your own. At least that's how I roll.
Control Body/Mob Control is still useful as a low drain way to cause confusion or take someone out of the fight. Those three sec guards you made start shooting at their buddies will distract attention/be nullified even if they aren't actually likely to hit anything with their willpower dice drain. Or have them throw their weapons off, strip naked, go in a room and lock the door, whatever. Plenty of useful control situations don't require dice rolls and two points of drain savings are never a bad thing.
To answer the original questions, control thoughts will let you make a guard do pretty much anything, including shoot his buddy. ("Wow, I suddenly realize he's an imposter and he's about to go for his gun!") Suicides are the only thing that concern me. A one net hit killer is pretty bad, although it does depend on him having a gun, not botching it, and not being tackled and restrained as soon as he draws it and aims it at himself. I'd probably let a free and automatic second will resistance test at most, though. You can always just have him lie and down and do the shooting in the head yourself, after all.
I think of control thoughts as a powerful form of hypnotism. You're unaware your thoughts are not your own, and you may seem unusually focused or distant to observers while you're under its effect. After the spell ends you realize your thoughts wer enot your own. At least that's how I roll.
i've always kinda wondered, can you use control thoughts to make the person tell you something? like tell me the password or whatever?
Threats 2 has a good example of mental control in action in the section describing Master Shedim. If you have the book or one of your friends does, I suggest reading it. Even killing yourself can sound like a GREAT idea if your thoughts are being controlled. It may seem unfair, but spell casting is dangerous, period.
As soon as the person left the room with control actions and left line of sight you would lose the spell.. All shadowrun spells require line of sight. Granted now if you had a Spirit maintaining it for you he would just follow the target as he left 
I'm pretty sure you need LOS to cast, not sustain.
Edit: double post
| QUOTE (stevebugge) |
| Is the Target aware he's under the influence of control thoughts? |
..only if you want him to think about that.
Maybe if he's very familiar with magical compulsion, but even then the stat equivalent of knowing when you're being controlled and shaking it is Willpower. Sooo....
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