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mmu1
A while ago, due to some troubling in-game events, I decided a SR3 character of mine was going to make/commission a new weapon, for emergencies.

It'd consist of a short, hollow thin-walled steel spike, approximately 8" long and 3/4" of an inch thick, with a heavily barbed end. (perhaps also densely perforated?) It'd be fitted with a screw-off knife-like handle, that'd also incorporate a grenade-like pull ring and spoon time-delay fuse setup. (with provisions for magnesium and HE fuses) The body of the spike could be pre-filled with either thermite or plastic explosive.

In theory, this'd allow the user to grasp the handle, pull the ring, stab something not amenable to dying in other ways with it, let go - setting short delay fuse going - and leave. Quickly.

I figure the stats of the thermite version of the device could be lifted pretty much directly from that of the burning bar, with damage from the "stake" comparable to that of a combat knife... Thoughts? Ideas? Refinements?

Also, what kind of check would successfully embedding this in an enemy require? Called shot of some sort? Strength check? Some other mechanic, following the... edged weapons, I suppose...? melee roll? What about attempting to remove it?
mfb
well, you'd want some sort of barbs on the spike, so that it couldn't be easily pulled out. matter off fact, if you're going to make something that effectively injects your opponent with burning thermite, why not just go ahead and make something that injects them with burning thermite? like a big, nasty syringe full of burning. that way, even if they pull the spike out, they've got globs of fiery doom in the wound.
Austere Emancipator
How about a thermal lance? A bit more bulky, but when HEDP GL rounds don't cut it you to need to bring in the big guns.
ARKARY
Hmm, reminds me of the Bang Needle from Steel Battalion. For those of you who don't know, the bang needle consists of a shaped charge planted on the tip of a pneumatic spike. The mech equipped with this weapon stabs the offending enemy, and the explosive detonates into the vulnerable insides. The spike is then retracted and reloaded with a new charge. Since it's a shaped charge, the blast is directed away from you and the spike, keeping the weapon relatively intact.
PlainWhiteSocks
It might be worth having a lanyard on the pull ring. Could be easier to grab, and ensure

Could do something like an explosive harpoon. They have cool barbs.

Tekumel
From what I'm gathering of your description, you're more or less talking about a combat knife with a thermite/plastique filled handle, plus detonation device?

OK, first, roll a reality check. Logic + Common sense. Didn't take common sense? Default to logic.

Thermite burns one direction. DOWN.

Thinking of all possible ways of stabbing somebody, that gives you about exactly ONE way to hit them with the knife to get it to actually take effect. A called shot to the head/shoulders, to get the knife sticking more or less straight up & down (any more than about...30 degrees off of that & you've got an inneffective glob of thermite on the floor). Yeah, it's possible, but I'd hardly call it practical. You could always put a small explosives charge in a magnesium core with thermite wrapped around it, but then you're facing hitting yourself with the splash damage.

If you can logically pull it off, in game systems, I'd say it's a normal attack roll with a certain number of required hits to signify that you've gotten the blade deep enough to be "stuck" in the enemy (plus needing to be a called shot if you're going for the basic thermite system I'm thinking). Basically to say that they can move all they want, and short of actually attempting to pull it out, it's not going anywhere. If you're talking about a pin & spoon system, you're probably going to need an Agility check of some sort to grab the pin. But why do that, when we've all realized that grenades can be wirelessly detonated? Just adapt a wireless grenade detonator for your knife.
mmu1
QUOTE (Tekumel)
From what I'm gathering of your description, you're more or less talking about a combat knife with a thermite/plastique filled handle, plus detonation device?

No, I'm more or less talking about a knife/stake with a thermite-filled blade. The handle doesn't burn or explode.

And its purpose is not to be an everyday weapon, but a useful alternative to those situations where you're forced to shoot something in the head once every couple of seconds to get it to lie still, and trying to get the incendiary grenade / thermite charge ready and set with your other hand without setting yourself on fire.
Telion
just use adhesive HE grenades. Preferred use in a small room.
Kagetenshi
Didn't we have that discussion? wink.gif

Besides, the point behind this is fighting things with INW or regeneration. Barring the small room, the HE grenades can easily fail to be effective—and, indeed, did fail for us.

~J
mfb
if a six-round burst of 20mm HEAP rounds while the target is in the middle of a 10m-diameter WP blaze doesn't put it down, i'm certainly not going to trust an HE grenade. (hilariously, a 3-round burst of 9mm ball did do the job!)
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (mmu1)
without setting yourself on fire.

Just make it a short spear, like 3-4 feet long with a thermite-laden barbed head that detaches when the target goes to pull it out.

Heck, a longer spear might be just what enterprising meta-critter hunters might use to deliver a variety of substances into a target.


-karma
Austere Emancipator
If you're going to use a long spear-like object, I'm telling you, go thermal lance. That way you can quickly spray large volumes of even hotter matter into, or indeed right through the target.
Arethusa
QUOTE (mfb)
if a six-round burst of 20mm HEAP rounds while the target is in the middle of a 10m-diameter WP blaze doesn't put it down, i'm certainly not going to trust an HE grenade. (hilariously, a 3-round burst of 9mm ball did do the job!)

Beautiful.

QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
If you're going to use a long spear-like object, I'm telling you, go thermal lance. That way you can quickly spray large volumes of even hotter matter into, or indeed right through the target.

You know, that has me wondering about the possibility of building a shaped charge warhead with a packed thermite penetrator. Probably a good idea, but I'd like to see it tried.
Shrike30
QUOTE (Tekumel @ Sep 12 2006, 12:48 AM)
OK, first, roll a reality check. Logic + Common sense. Didn't take common sense? Default to logic.

Thermite burns one direction. DOWN.

I'm gonna roll Logic + Chemistry. Or maybe I'll just make a memory check...

Thermite, given the chance, will flow downwards. Enough thermite, put into a container where it can't escape quickly enough downwards, will leave a container in whatever direction it can. Thermite burns whatever it touches.

I'm speaking from personal experience here. My high school science festival demonstration of the thermite reaction suffered from a bit of youthful zealotry between the testing run and the actual performance run, and went from being a sedate little dribble of liquid iron coming out of the bottom of a flowerpot to being a meters-high fountain of liquid iron that bounced off the ceiling of the hall and shotgunned the floorboards all around the demonstration area pretty badly.

Once that perforated blade is inside the target and the reaction has started, that liquid iron is going to spray out of those holes pretty quick.
Butterblume
QUOTE (mmu1)
It'd consist of a short, hollow thin-walled steel spike, approximately 8" long and 3/4" of an inch thick, with a heavily barbed end.

Basically, I like the idea. Imo 3/4 inches are to thick, it might get stopped by the ribs.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (Arethusa)
You know, that has me wondering about the possibility of building a shaped charge warhead with a packed thermite penetrator. Probably a good idea, but I'd like to see it tried.

I'm sure you could fire a whole lot of incendiary at a target at extreme velocities this way. I doubt it'd be useful in this particular case, however, as most of that incendiary would be blown right through the target and, depending on exact configuration, possibly also through the wall behind him.
Arethusa
I didn't mean it for this application, really. I just think it might make very good use of internal spalling, or at least much better use of the effect than traditional materials like copper. Also, that was suppoed to read "bad idea"; I'm guessing there are issues with pressure waves in thermite that complicate things.
Austere Emancipator
For starters, the whole plasticizing through sudden pressure might not work at all on any serious incendiary mixtures, leading to a cloud of particles being "shot" instead of a singular projectile, and thus to far worse armor penetration properties. Not something I'd be willing to bet money on one way or the other.

But I am willing to bet it would look damn cool.
Arethusa
I thought about that, and it's tough to call. This column mentions the particularization effect already occurring with solid penetrators like copper, which is why I'm really not sure. Like you said, I wouldn't bet one way or the other, but it'd be cool.
Ed_209a
Thermite is nothing more or less than a way of making small amounts of molten iron that is a lot handier than bringing a small foundry with you.

It's very useful for what it's intended for, but it's not a wonder weapon.

Not like, say a katana or monowhip. wink.gif

Regarding the original post, I'd say the HE version would end up being more useful than the thermite version. I can see someone stabbing it into the gas tank of a vehicle on the run.

I am no SR cryptozoologist. Are there really creatures in the game that are more easily wounded with a spear than a machinegun?
Fresno Bob
Critters with the regeneration ability, yes.
The Jopp
As a one-shot weapon it could work wonders, and the would would become REALLY nasty if not downright lethal.

Take a spear with a detachable head. The spearhead is a spike with a hard barbed point and the section just behind it contains the Thermite and a detonator.

At the moment the character hits his intended target the point breaks free and lodges in the target. The detonator activates by the dislocation of the spearpoint and the chemical reaction starts.

A thick hided animal might not have the spearpoint penetrate deep enough but a human might get a serious problem.

Even if it burns downwards it only have to lodge deep enough in the intended victim for the victim to experience molten metal going through his/her body. eek.gif
mmu1
I got one more use for this weapon, should it ever come to be. Stab the person responsible for bumping all of Emo's polls with it.
Shrike30
*runs for cover*
mmu1
QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Sep 13 2006, 04:39 PM)
*runs for cover*

devil.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Ed_209a)
I am no SR cryptozoologist. Are there really creatures in the game that are more easily wounded with a spear than a machinegun?

Spirits, also.

~J
KarmaInferno
Hmm. Melee attack AND elemental damage?

Anti-spirit indeed!


-karma
child of insanity
get these things as stakes and use a stake launcher. long distance flaming fun!
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