PlatonicPimp
Nov 28 2006, 05:25 PM
QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
Someone truly skiled in a "soft reach" weapon would always keep it in fluid motion in battle. To close the gap is to come into weapons path. |
Someone truely skilled in a soft reach weapon has Dodge and unarmed combat, and uses those to aviod incoming attacks.
I can only give my experience, but the chain or rope part of a soft weapon is very ineffective at blocking. Your opponent strikes, and the momentum causes the rope to flex. It can slow someone's strike but they usually still make contact. And the effort it takes to pull the chain taunt , interpose it, and hold it, it's a hell of a lot easier to just move out of the way.
Now, there's all kinds of wraps, trips and disarms that make effective defense, but in the sense of a good offense. Assuming I let the exotic weapons rules stand as is, I'd allow specializations in those maneuveurs. Rather than that, I'd like to have a soft weapons skill group, and then you specialize in the monowhip.
I also think the different effects of the reach for, say, a whip vs. the effect of reach for, say, a pike is differnt enough that using the same rule to cover both is kind of wrong. A hard reach weapon can deny area more effectively because it doesn't need to be in motion to work. A soft weapon needs to have striking force behind it, and spends at least as much time on the backswing as it does striking. This gives a canny opponent the opportunity to close, and makes the weapon ineffective at close range.
This is just based on my experience. I have been using a long staff for about 15 years and a rope dart for 6 months. Anyone with more experience. can chime in and correct me if I've made some poor observations.
I'll try to put together some house rules based on these assumptions for debate.
lorechaser
Nov 28 2006, 06:09 PM
Again, this comes down to "Why add more rules specifically for a single weapon type which already has different rules which hurt it?"
Sure, maybe a mono whip use more techincally would be blocking and dodging. But we'll just let them follow everyone else's rules, unless you plan to boost the monowhip in some way....
FrankTrollman
Nov 28 2006, 06:12 PM
A monowhip isn't soft though, it doesn't flex.
When you fight with it it looks like
this. Not like
this.When you fight with a monowhip, you are essenetially using a rigid cutting surface that runs between the spool and the end-weight. If a monowhip isn't taught at any point in the process you'e doing something wrong, because it won't cut anything at that point. It's like cutting cheese with piano wire - it's easy as long as you keep the wire fully extended. If you allow it to go soft it will just fold around the cheese.
-Frank
Mistwalker
Nov 28 2006, 06:22 PM
Can you vary the length of the whip? if so, how short and long can you make it?
FrankTrollman
Nov 28 2006, 06:26 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
Can you vary the length of the whip? if so, how short and long can you make it? |
Yes. 0m.
It's on a spool that rolls it all the way up. The weight actually meets the handle when it's not in use.
-Frank
Mistwalker
Nov 28 2006, 06:31 PM
But can you adjust how much spools out of the handle?
Make a 1m whip for small jobs?
Make a 5m whip for those very large jobs?
PlatonicPimp
Nov 28 2006, 06:36 PM
The way you use a claymore is drastically different than the way you use a rapier, but it's all the blades skill. Also, a piano wire doesn't have to be taunt to cut, in fact, wires are more dangerous when they snap and flail about like a whip. It just needs force behind it. It is different than a normal whip in that the damaging edge is the length of it, not the tip. I'd still call that the same skill.
The boost to the monowhip is in not requiring an exotic skill, but a skill that also covers other weapons, and therefor allows monowhip specializations.
lorechaser
Nov 28 2006, 06:46 PM
See, I was hoping for a pic from Johnny Mnemonic, or at least the two whip guy in Underworld...
But yeah, the monofilament "whip" is a whip is name only. I'm not sure why you would say you could cut w/it without it being
taut. If it's just sitting there, it's not dangerous. It's not like you pick one up, and it slices through your hand. You get the danger in the arcs and cuts you make....
At least that's my understanding of it.
Jack Kain
Nov 28 2006, 06:50 PM
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 28 2006, 11:25 AM) |
This is just based on my experience. I have been using a long staff for about 15 years and a rope dart for 6 months. Anyone with more experience. can chime in and correct me if I've made some poor observations. |
You can't compare a rope dart to a monowhip. On a rope dart you try and land the dart end on the target thats where the real damage is
On a monowhip the entire strand is razor sharp, the backswing is just as deadly as the first swing as your trying to land the "rope" on them not the tip.
When you close the gap on a rope dart the dart end flys past you when swung, advantage! for defender
When you close the gap on a monowhip the weighted tip flys past you. Just like the attacker would have wanted anyway, the wire is still the deadly part.
You'd have to be right in there face to keep them from using the weapon. Then again you can't really use any reach weapon very well if they guy is 3 inchs from you.
If you don't like the word parry call it something else, I envison the melee defense from a monowhip to be from the attacker trying to avoid the swinging razor wire.
And while I'd love a weapon category to allow me to specialize in monowhip, not at the expense of being able to parry. That requires me to take karma/BP into another skill so I can effectivly defend myself in melee combat.
PlatonicPimp
Nov 28 2006, 09:30 PM
yeah, and I wish there was a decent reason to take the dodge skill ever. As it stands if you have gymnastics and a melee skill then dodge is pointless.
anyway, a rope dart is deadly on the backswing as well, but I beleive that there are as many similarities between a monowhip, a whip, a chain and a rope dart as there is between the weapons covered by the blades skill. The flexible part of a weapon cannot be used to stop a blow, and any other defense is covered by another skill. A flexible weapon cannot be used to keep an opponent at a distance nearly as effectively as a more rigid one.
So, house rule one is to make this combined group. House rule two is to note that certain weapons aren't capable of parrying. This won't be applied to the whole weapons group, but instead will be noted in each weapons description. Since you cannot use the weapon defensively, the reach advantage will only apply on your action. In other words, on your tuyrn you have reach 2 when you attack, on anyone elses turn you have to use a different skill to aviod damage, and have reach 0.
Mistwalker
Nov 28 2006, 10:20 PM
Why can't you use the whip defensively?
When you parry, you destroy or lop off pieces of your opponent's weapon.
Kyoto Kid
Nov 29 2006, 02:11 AM
QUOTE (James McMurray) |
I prefer the stun baton for the electrical effects and nonlethal damage. |
...seconded.
Especially a nice weapon for a low STR character since it has a base DV of 6S.
Another good thing is that a grazing hit still causes damage (and the associated electrical effects).
Garrowolf
Nov 29 2006, 08:07 AM
I don't think that the monowhip would work as described because the whip itself would have no weight to it. It would only work taut.
That said, I don't allow them in my games. There is monofilment in the setting but it is not available as a whip.
I could see some people thinking that it was a good idea and they would get someone to custom make them one. Then they would try and master it. It wouldn't move like a normal whip because of the lack of weight to direct it with. They play around with it for a while, then go to the hospitol. They get cyberware. They play with it some more, then go to the hospitol. They get cyberware fixed or more added. They try and again and become proficient.
Then they take it out and use it. They start injuring others around them. They go to the hospitol. They get cyberware. The guy messes up again. They go to the hospitol. They get cyberware. They get a rifle and kill the guy with the whip. The whip falls out of fashion and disappears from use.
hyzmarca
Nov 29 2006, 08:47 AM
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 28 2006, 01:46 PM) |
See, I was hoping for a pic from Johnny Mnemonic, or at least the two whip guy in Underworld... |
Screw Underworld.Of course the monowhip has weight. It also has mass and is on the surface of a planet. Of course, if you accidentally drop your monomolecular wire it will fall through the Earth and continue to cut its way down untill it reaches the center of the world.
Eryk the Red
Nov 29 2006, 02:07 PM
Here at Dumpshock, we can talk the coolness right out of a silly piece of sci-fi weaponry. You know what you call that? TALENT.
Grinder
Nov 29 2006, 02:08 PM
Awesomeness.
KarmaInferno
Nov 29 2006, 03:46 PM
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
"But then how did he cut the lock out of the hotel door at the beginning?", you might ask. Well, that part is a little inconsistent, but then again so is the concept of monowire, so it's probably best not to think about it too much. |
I was under the impression he kept ahold of the counterweight and swung a loop of the wire through the door.
Like swinging a jump rope, kinda, but smaller. And more door-cuttery.
-karma
Moon-Hawk
Nov 29 2006, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Nov 27 2006, 06:14 PM) | "But then how did he cut the lock out of the hotel door at the beginning?", you might ask. Well, that part is a little inconsistent, but then again so is the concept of monowire, so it's probably best not to think about it too much. |
I was under the impression he kept ahold of the counterweight and swung a loop of the wire through the door.
Like swinging a jump rope, kinda, but smaller. And more door-cuttery.
-karma
|
Well, yeah, that's how it looks, but the problem is the swinging loop has negligible momentum, so how does it cut the door, and even if it can, why couldn't he have done that to the fence?
I reconcile it by saying that for starters the fence is just harder, and the door was probably pretty crappy and soft, likely not even real wood at all. Second, he probably could've cut through the fence but it would've taken enough time that Johnny would've escaped anyway, so he was really just venting his frustration, not trying to cut the fence at all.
And then...here's the important part....I stop thinking about it.
James McMurray
Nov 29 2006, 04:43 PM
QUOTE |
Well, yeah, that's how it looks, but the problem is the swinging loop has negligible momentum, so how does it cut the door, and even if it can, why couldn't he have done that to the fence? |
<Horshack> Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I know! </Horshack>
I'm going to go with "because it's a movie."
Did I win anything?
lorechaser
Nov 29 2006, 05:11 PM
QUOTE (James McMurray) |
<Horshack> Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I know! </Horshack>
I'm going to go with "because it's a Keanu Reeves movie."
Did I win anything? |
Fixed.
Big D
Nov 29 2006, 05:43 PM
Woah.
Moon-Hawk
Nov 29 2006, 05:46 PM
I've been able to move past the monowire scenes. It looks neat, it's all cutty and cool and makes me go "oooooh, I want one", all in all it's a lot of fun.
It's the scenes that have Keanu, Ice T, and the dolphin all at the same time that make my brain hurt.
lorechaser
Nov 29 2006, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
I've been able to move past the monowire scenes. It looks neat, it's all cutty and cool and makes me go "oooooh, I want one", all in all it's a lot of fun.
It's the scenes that have Keanu, Ice T, and the dolphin all at the same time that make my brain hurt. |
ZOMG.
I had forgotten about the dolphin until you mentioned it. Man.
I should go watch that movie again.
*Scary virtual claws*
"I could crash your system from here!"
Moon-Hawk
Nov 29 2006, 06:06 PM
"I NEEEEED a computer!"
Ralfi is great. But then again, I think Udo Kier is awesome.
Fortune
Nov 29 2006, 09:25 PM
QUOTE (lorechaser) |
I had forgotten about the dolphin until you mentioned it. |
How could you forget about the Dolphin? That is the single most shit part of the entire movie.
lorechaser
Nov 29 2006, 10:09 PM
QUOTE (Fortune) |
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 30 2006, 04:58 AM) | I had forgotten about the dolphin until you mentioned it. |
How could you forget about the Dolphin? That is the single most shit part of the entire movie.
|
I'm gonna bet that's why.

Because I really want to like the movie. So my memories of it are colored by that. So I remember the monowhips, I remember the Yaks, I remember even the LoTeks. And I certainly remember the crazy street preacher man.
But I forgot the dolphin. So that I can continue to like the movie.
Butterblume
Nov 29 2006, 10:13 PM
It's a basic psychological mechanism to repress the memory of the dolphin.
[hypnotic message]turn off the movie when you see a dolphin[/hypnotic message]
Off-Topic question: There is a book where they use very sharp swords, basically monowire hold in place by some kind of stasis field. It tortures me that I can't remember which one that was. Any Ideas?
hyzmarca
Nov 29 2006, 10:18 PM
Well I stated the dolphin and went far enough to give him cybertentacles so that he can walk on land and molest unsuspecting PCs.
Fortune
Nov 29 2006, 10:43 PM
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 30 2006, 09:09 AM) |
But I forgot the dolphin. So that I can continue to like the movie. |
I don't give a shit what other people say about the movie (or other Keanu flicks like The Matrix trilogy for that matter) ... I really like it. Even with the dolphin.
knasser
Nov 30 2006, 12:28 AM
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 29 2006, 05:18 PM) |
Well I stated the dolphin and went far enough to give him cybertentacles so that he can walk on land and molest unsuspecting PCs. |
Hah! I was about to post a link to that for anyone who'd missed it the first time around. One of my favorite NPCs that I've ever seen posted here.
Of course, it was a little
bizarre.

-K.
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