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SJE
My challenge is to create a Parkour Adept who can cross urban environments with incredible ease. Included in this is a particular challenge of 10m high, monowire topped concrete walls.

How, from my reading of p116, to jump 10m (admittedly the height of a 3 storey building) I'd need something like Agility+Great Leap of 30! And while technically possible (with Agility 6, Magic 6 and 24 levels of Great Leap) it would come at the cost of ruining my character for any other activity.

So, how to cross a 10m tall wall? I've heard of something called Wall Running from Street Magic (my copy is en route in the Xmas Post) - is this the answer, or does the mono-wire top still cause a problem?

All help gratefully recieved.

Thx.

SJE
Konsaki
Jump as high as you can next to the wall, climb test to see if you can grab hold and get set for another jump upward.

Or drive a bulldog 2.5m tall (I'm guessing here) next to the wall and jump from the roof so you only have to go 8m.

use a grapling hook to climb a building next to the wall and then jump off the side of the building over the wall and try not to take too much damage from the fall.

Climb up and cover the wire with material used to make repelling gloves (the ones used for monowire)

Climb up and cut the wire

Have a friend come with you, raise up a 6m ladder to the side of the wall and use that as your base to jump from. You still have to suffer 6m of fall damage though...


Butterblume
You know, impressive as parkour guy looks in motion, there are things that can't be done, even with magic and/or 'ware.

IIRC wall running lets you run your magic rating in meters on a wall, so it wouldn't work for 10m. By the way, the level of an adept power is capped by magic rating, so you can't have great leap 24 for a long, long time wink.gif.

If there is no adjacent structure near the wall, the only way would be to climb... and if had designed the wall, the monowire would overhang the side of the wall, so no one can easily, well, climb over it.

Question: who would use a 10m high wall, except certain medieval fortresses or some 150 year old prisons?

Konsaki
The Stuffer Shack that really doesnt want any customers in the Redmond Barrens?
The wall building guild?
Someone performing a joke on the Highway department by airdropping it onto a highway?
ixombie
With good enough skills, you should be able to do the Prince of Persia thing where you leap back and forth between two walls, propelling yourself up with each leap. Wouldn't work with a wall set apart from the rest of the city, but urban areas in SR are so crowded that that's unlikely.

Now, as for what the threshold and modifiers would be, I dunno. That's up to the GM.
Charon
QUOTE (SJE @ Dec 17 2006, 03:50 PM)
My challenge is to create a Parkour Adept who can cross urban environments with incredible ease. Included in this is a particular challenge of 10m high, monowire topped concrete walls.

Yep, quite a challenge.

But, hum, where do you envision a 10m high concrete wall topped by mono-wire in an urban environment?

Anyway, I'd get the cue that maybe this mission call for traditional infitration but if I simply must risk my neck, then I'd jump from a higher building with some kind of glider or 'chute.

And I'd repeat to myself : "Thank God I'm a fictional Character!" over and over.
nezumi
Why not just use a ladder like everyone else?

I'm trying to remember if the pneumatic legs in M&M helped increase jump hight. I seem to recollect someone made a crazy jumping character in SR3 (called the flea or something). Look it up and ask your GM if you can use SR3 equipment.
SJE
The wall is one of those Berlin wall type things with 50m of no-man's land around it in Denver (which ruins those plans that rely on higher adjacent walls).

At the moment I'm thinking, Jump-Wall Run-Climb to get over it.

SJE
Narmio
If the wall has any handholds or features at all, then attempt to climb it rather than jump it.

If it doesn't, bring a buddy with Levitate.
PBTHHHHT
Or get a catapult to send that character over the wall...

[ Spoiler ]


edit: Looking at your question specifically with wall running, I see no problems with a character running up the wall. The question is the monowire at the top. Can the character see it, and see how much higher the wire runs across the top of the wall. If I was GM'ing (YMMV), I'd give a rule call that if your character wants to run to the top and then has several choices. One is to throw out his arms and have his hands and catch the top lip of the wall and then you can scramble up and maybe negotiate around/over the wire depending, but watch out, you might throw your arms too far and your hands might come down on the wires (ouch!). The other thing might be more iffy, running up and with some momentum and with a good enough dex/athletics/gymnastics roll maybe you managed to get the foot to hit the lip just right so you can launch your self up in the air over the wall (and hopefully over the wire...). Basically a judgment call because well, people can't run up walls in real life and we're having magic powers with wall running and such... *shrugs*

edit 2: Wall running distances is based on your number of hits from a strength and running test. Good luck. smile.gif There is also a modifier on your test if you do special stuff like using gymnastics, etc... Just grabbed my street magic book from my bookshelf.
Butterblume
The original Berlin Wall was less than 4m in height.

If you have to cross the wall only once, gliding/parachuting seems like the thing to do. If you want to get in and out (or out and back in, I don't know whats preferable in Denver nyahnyah.gif), just get your gecko tape gloves and you're over the wall in a matter of seconds (depending on how the monowire is set up).
Serbitar
I think the wall running power is too weak.
Konsaki
It's just some cool way to get your adept over a low barracade so he can knock the shit out of the guards/gang/whatever.
nezumi
Hey, what's that adept power in SOTA64 that lets you balance on something that normally could't take your weight? You could use that on the monowire, just jump off it! Hah, they'd never expect that.

Edit: Here, in this thread:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=5467

They discuss jumping and come up with "Mr. Wabbit" with the following contributing stats:

Jumpy "Bunny" Wabbit, Night One adept.
Q 14
Muscle Toner-4, Suprathyroid, Hydraulic Jacks-5, Enhanced Artwinkulation, Reflex Rec/Athletics, Great Leap-6, IA:Athletics-6, Athletics/Jumping-5/7
Maximum jumping distance: 40 meters
# Dice on Athletics/Jumping tests: 26

I assume SR4 simply has you roll your dice against a TN of 5 and somehow changes the number of successes into meters jumped, so talk with your GM about getting SR3 cyber and bio, specifically the hydraulic jacks.
eidolon
Someone around here (I think it was Critias, but it would be posted in a thread called something like "fiction contest") wrote a pretty awesome short story centered on an ork(?) Parkour adept. It's a good read if you can dig it up.

I don't think there's really much that you could glean from it mechanically, but you might get some ideas for fluff.

Edit: My search-fu is mighty today.

Here's Rooftops by Critias.

Squinky
SR4 has hydraulic jacks already....
Konsaki
QUOTE (BBB Pg335)
Hydraulic Jacks: This implant requires two cyberlegs—
each hydraulic jack consumes an amount of Capacity
in its leg equal to its rating. Each rating point adds a +1 dice
pool modifier to jumping tests (see p. 116), adds 20 percent
to the character’s maximum jump distance, and (as long as
the character manages to land on her feet) reduces the effects
of falling by 2 meters. For example, a character with
Rating 3 hydraulic jacks falling 10 meters would be treated
as falling from a height of 4 meters.
Serbitar
I still think, these very special cyberware, which can only be used in a very special situation (jumping of falling) should be more powerful. Same goes for the adept power of great leap and wall running.
Kerris
Note that the Jumping rules only take into account wanting to clear that height. So, assuming your character is around 2 meters tall, that means you only have to make a jump of 8 meters to be able to grab the top. With Wall Running, you could probably cut that down to 3 or 4, making it only 4 or 5 meter jump. Still difficult, but if you use Edge on the test, that'll make it a bit easier.

So, basically, jump as high as you can, wall run the remainder up to 8 meters, and you can grab the top and make a climbing test for the last 2 meters.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Serbitar)
I still think, these very special cyberware, which can only be used in a very special situation (jumping of falling) should be more powerful. Same goes for the adept power of great leap and wall running.

but if so, when will the mage get to show of that nifty levitate spell? silly.gif
Dranem
I'm wondering if some people are confusing their measurements...
10 meters is a fraggin' high fence!

1 meter = approx 6 feet.
So you'd be looking at a 60 foot fence - even with modern building meterials a fence that high would require significant re-inforcements on at lease one side, meaning at least one side would need tapering or be really thick.

As for fence hopping in Denver, find a good Coyote, cause there's more than just mono-wire to worry about: There's drone pods set at specific distances so that people don't just use vehicles to hack a hole in a wall.. that includes lone runners with climbing tools.
With a Coyote you can find the weak-points in walls, holes in the defense grid, codes for sleezing by security, etc...
starkebn
QUOTE (Dranem)
I'm wondering if some people are confusing their measurements...
10 meters is a fraggin' high fence!

1 meter = approx 6 feet.
So you'd be looking at a 60 foot fence

1 meter = almost exactly 3 feet

30 foot fence is still a big fence
mfb
32.8 feet, to be precise. i still remember the run we did on the "secret base" that had 30m-high walls around it.

thirty. meters. first time in my life i've seriously considered crucification as a tool for GM management.
Konsaki
30m = time for heavy explosives... air dropped and alot of them...
prionic6
QUOTE (SJE)
So, how to cross a 10m tall wall?

IDSPISPOPD
Serbitar
Down with feet, gallons, inches . . . go metric.
psykotisk_overlegen
Leaving the question of why you'd want to cross such a wall and going solely by the rules you seem to have three choices for the unassisted crossing of high walls. Climbing, jumping and wall running. OR a combination.

Unless it's a very climber-friendly 10m wall you'll need something like gecko tape gloves or a grapple gun to get up.

Jumping, the maximum distance for vertical jumps equals agility/3. Meaning your agility plus great leap would have to be 24 in order to make an 8m jump and grab that ledge. With hydraulic jacks at rating 6 you get an extra 120% jump distance, meaning your max distance would be less than your agility+great leap, but a bit more achievable than agility/3. The treshold equals the distance in meters x2, at least 16 then. Real hard to do, even whith an extra 6 dice form the jacks. Besides, the two cyberlegs will reduce your magic by 2 unless you can get delta.

Wall running the 10m will take 10 hits on a strength + running test, probably possible, but hard.

I'm having trouble imagining how one would go from running up a wall to a vertical jump, but since running up walls is impossible in the first place I guess I'll just have to accept it to be possible for adepts. Wall running combined with jumping or climbing, either to make the whole height in one go, or to get a pause halfway so you only need to wall run tests of 5 hits each. Of course, wall running costs a whole power point and isn't even all that good at the one thing it does.


Unless your gm modifies the jump rules/gear/powers or reduces the height of the wall a bit, your best bet is assisted climbing or flying.

nezumi
QUOTE (Serbitar)
Down with feet, gallons, inches . . . go metric.

Then the communists will have won.


If you're already running up the wall, can you use long jump instead of vertical jump? (Only semi in jest. You should, after all, have momentum on your side).
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Konsaki)
Or drive a bulldog 2.5m tall (I'm guessing here) next to the wall and jump from the roof so you only have to go 8m.

...I'd just armour up the Bulldog & drive it through the wall. grinbig.gif
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Dec 18 2006, 07:52 AM)
Down with feet, gallons, inches . . . go metric.

Then the communists will have won.

Actually developed in France IIRC...
Eryk the Red
Bah, I hate it when RPGs use metric exclusively. I don't use metric in my day to day life. I have no sense of metric distances. When you say 30 feet, I can envision that. 15 meters means nothing to me.
Serbitar
Start using metric. Eventually everything else will die out. Having more than one standard is superfluous. And metric is that standard.
Fortune
I am old, but still don't see it as being that hard to convert. A meter is approximately 40 inches (1 inch = 2 1/2 centemeters (approx.)), or 3 foot 4 inches, or close enough to a yard that it makes little difference.
Moon-Hawk
I go with the 3m = 10ft conversion, myself. (I know it's the same as what Fortune just said, but this is how I think of it, dangit) Multiplication/division by 3 and 10 are easy enough.
Draug
Wasn't there some European/NASA cooperative project a couple of years ago that went straight to hell because someone forgot to convert from metric to imperial?

I find it funny that one of the few countries in the world that use the Imperial system is the US, who actually had a war against the guys who invented it. Now they're the only ones preserving it. Even the inventors (the Brits) have given it up.
Moon-Hawk
I was pretty sure there was at least one other country that used them. But maybe they switched. smile.gif

Anyway, WALL RUNNING! wink.gif
Butterblume
Ah, wall running. Running up the wall and jumping like you are on even ground can't work, because you would jump away from the wall - which would let you miss the top of the wall, so you would just fall after the jump that ends nowhere nyahnyah.gif.
Kerris
That's why you jump before the wall run.
Butterblume
Yeah, but then its a vertical jump nyahnyah.gif.
nezumi
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Ah, wall running. Running up the wall and jumping like you are on even ground can't work, because you would jump away from the wall - which would let you miss the top of the wall, so you would just fall after the jump that ends nowhere nyahnyah.gif.

Unless you buy the custom adept feat that allows you to change the direction of your jump while in the air. Alternatively, figure out something to give you some 'oompf' in the appropriate direction. Or with the creative use of grappling hooks, you could jump and tether yourself to the wall so you simply swing around and down the other side.
Butterblume
QUOTE (nezumi)
Unless you buy the custom adept feat that allows you to change the direction of your jump while in the air.

Must have missed that one.
QUOTE (nezumi)
  Alternatively, figure out something to give you some 'oompf' in the appropriate direction.

Jetpack? Rotodrone? cyber.gif
Crusufix
I don't know what you guys are smoking but there are only 4 countries in the world that DO NOT use metric as their standard of measurement.

USA
Burma
Sierra Leone
Liberia

The metric system was developed in France

Since the 1960's the Metric system has been recognized as the international standard of measurement. (which is about when Canada switched over to the metric system I believe. I know my grandma and mother don't really understand the metric system well and always ask me to convert my measurements).

Moon-Hawk
How old is that list? Or do you, for political reasons, refuse to recognize the country of Myanmar, as Burma has been called since 1989?
Fortune
Canada officially recognised the Metric System way back in 1871, but didn't initiate laws concerning it's use until one hundred years later, in 1971.
nezumi
Yes, all God-fearing, capitalist nations I note, as opposed to the rest of the "international" community and the so-called UN, which are all ruled by communists and liberals. First they take away our system of measurements, then they take away our right to bear guns. They can pry my ruler out of my cold, dead hands.
Crusufix
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Dec 18 2006, 03:32 PM)
How old is that list?  Or do you, for political reasons, refuse to recognize the country of Myanmar, as Burma has been called since 1989?

Hmm, you sure about that? That map is from 1995.. still old though.. should look for a new one. In fact the 2001 version of the same map still lists the country as Burma..

Ahhh I see why.

QUOTE

Burma achieved independence from Great Britain as the “Union of Burma”. Subsequent name changes were on 4 January 1974, to the “Socialist Republic of the Union of Burma”; 23 September 1988, to the “Union of Burma” and, since 18 June 1989, the “Union of Myanmar”. Also known as Burma or the Union of Burma by bodies and states which do not recognize the ruling military junta...

... The renaming proved to be politically controversial. Because the military junta was not legitimately elected, some governments have contended that it did not have the authority to officially change the name in English. This stance has also been adopted by most Burmese who oppose the military regime, but who do not necessarily dispute the semantics.

The English-speaking world has been slow in accepting the name change; usage of Burma is still common. Burmese remains the most commonly used adjective. Major news organisations such as the BBC, Wall Street Journal, and The Financial Times as well as Western governments, including those of the United States and the United Kingdom, still officially refer to the country as Burma. CNN, The Economist, and The New York Times use "Myanmar" as the country name and "Burmese" as the adjective.



The map I'm referencing is from the University of Texas, produced by the US CIA.
Garrowolf
How about a borg with a JATO backpack and a parachute? biggrin.gif
Go up fast come down slow and easy.
SJE
Guys, much as I appreciate the comments, heres the thing- I want a Parkour Adept, not a cyberlegged monstrosity, nor a runner who relies on equipment, hangliders or grapple guns- just a fantastically fit athelete who only uses their body and adept powers to cross the urban environment.

My capacity for custom stuff and talking to the GM is also out- pure by the book 4th Ed.

At the moment, I'm not seeing its entirely possible to make the character I envisage, partly because the rules precisely prohibit Matrix-style jumps and partly because the wall is far too high (though presumably its over twice as tall as the Berlin Wall, precisely because the East Germnas didnt need to worry about Adepts making a mockery of it.

SJE
knasser

I don't know if this is any help, but a while ago I worked out some of the implications for what augmented attributes actually meant. I used cyberware, but substitute physical adept boosts and the numbers are the same. The thread is here and if you browse through for the second images that I posted it will illustrate just what a mildly augmented character is capable of.

I think the task you've set for the adept (clearing a sheer 10m wall) is asking a bit much. That's way beyond parkour. But if you check out the illustration you'll see just how impressive your adept can be. A reasonably low-power samurai can jump 7m or 23' horizontally, 3m or 10' vertically and fall 6m or nearly 20' without taking any damage. And that last one I emphasize as fall because I think a reasonable GM would allow more if it were a deliberate jump. All of the rolls I used for the illustration were average values without edge.

With reasonable climb ability (or wall running) and comparable stats, you're parkour adept ought to be near uncatchable in a dense urban environment.

Except for the drones, of course. wink.gif
Butterblume
QUOTE (knasser)
I don't know if this is any help, but a while ago I worked out some of the implications for what augmented attributes actually meant. I used cyberware, but substitute physical adept boosts and the numbers are the same. The thread is here and if you browse through for the second images that I posted it will illustrate just what a mildly augmented character is capable of.

Somehow I missed that interesting thread (the football world cup is to blame wink.gif).

I just created a char with climbing/gymnastics 4, plus enhanced articulation and synthacardium 3, so you could call her a cyber parcourist biggrin.gif.

I kinda computed jump ranges in my head, but knassers pictures say more than 1000 numbers.
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