It's not like your street sam simply pushes a button, and he's suddenly a hacker. There are programs, which cost money. Skills, which cost Karma. Sacrifices in tacticals (if you're the hacker, you aren't the point man, and you aren't shooting people as well).
Granted, it's not a huge investment, but it's still an investment.
It's also not like your average hacker just gets Wired 2, or Synaptic 2, installed on a whim.
It's still far easier to go VR and have minimal investment.
Yes, at the high end, a tricked out technological being can equal a straight up hacker in VR.
But take the points that tricked out being spend on all the stuff that got them there, and put them in the hacker, and he's better again.
If you're really concerned, I think simply stating that your AR IPs are equal to your meat IPs-1 (min 1) makes a quick easy fix. Then 1 ip (base) = 1 ip. 2 ip (minimal investment) = 1 ip. 3 ip (Wired 2/Synaptic 2) = 2 ip (less than VR). 4 ip (Hardcore) = 3 ip.
So then a hardcore sam can still be a pretty badass AR hacker, but the VR guy will still beat him.
Full Version: Making VR faster than Meat hackers
| QUOTE (BlueRondo) |
| Maybe the simplest thing to do without screwing around with IPs is to increase the +2 dice bonus. To reflect that you're moving at the speed of thought, you could add something like (logic + intuition) / 2. So an average person with 3 logic / 3 intuition gets +3 dice. A genius with maybe 4 int and 6 logic gets +5 dice. |
...hmm, I could go for this, It would mean Violet gets +6 dice (5 Int + 7 Log) in Hot Sim mode.
GM, you reading this?
| QUOTE (Serbitar @ Dec 19 2006, 03:10 AM) | ||
1st: Please keep it civil |
All due apologies, I fear I became totally overwhelmed by your stupid.
| QUOTE |
| 2nd: This is your interpretation. As long as nobody builds a fully functional DNI, and see how effective it interpretas the signal it is getting, my interpretation is as good as any. (Actually I think it id more consistent with the fluff, than yours, but I dont want to argue with you as you only want to troll around). |
And yet there you go again.
Don't want want me to treat you like your are a fool? Don't be a fool. 
| QUOTE |
| 3rd: You still dont get it. I want VR to be better than AR. Snd faster. I need no reason for that, other that I want it to be that way. You can not argue against it. |
I can't argue that you don't wish it to be so. However I certainly feel free to point out that it makes no....fucking...sense. Because VR is faster than AR....until you modify your body/nerve paths to get similar speeds. Yet ultimately the Matrix performance of Technomancers already outpaces AR, and it is extremely likely (I'll even take [secured] cash bets on it by-the-way) that the same will be true of mundane hackers by the time Augmented and Unwired are out.
Oh sure you can say "why should this Matrix topic be any different than the others where I post drivel so incongruent that you are led to wonder if I've ever successfully managed to use a microwave?" But I can dream, can't I, that you'll finally manage to grasp the fact that you're rattlebrained?
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Get hostile much, blakkie? |
Only in the face the personification of thickness. Hey, if I'm going to have to spoon feed people stuff because they're too slow on the uptake to clue in themselves I might as well point out that it's actually pretty straightforward.
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| Still, it'll be interesting to see what if any additional differences AR VS Cold/Hot VR will surface with the new hacker book. |
I'm of that mind too. I'm hoping that not only will there be something equivalent to that Cortex Mainline, but there will be implant options that work with it do unique things that humans just normally can't do save for perhaps similar things possible with Echos. Like a persona splitter that lets you have two persona's active simultaneously. Maybe a Skill augmentation system that lets you plug in an autosoft type program that boosts your skill allowing you to get it up over 6/7 (and compete with those Improved Ability Adepts).
Oh, oh, see Konsaki, here is another personification of thickness where I just unload with both barrels:
| QUOTE (Jopp @ Thickie Extra-ordinare) |
| THe point with the FAQ they have given is that VR and AR has become obsolete when it is a HUGE part of the actual gameworld and that is wrong. |
One more time for the slow, drooling kid in the back!
1) The FAQ didn't change the rules in this matter. If you read the BBB front to back it is quite straightforward that this is how it's been since the book came out over a year ago. Of course there apparently are enough people that just didn't get it that Fanpro threw it into the FAQ. But cripy, I'd expect you'd get it after it was laid out nice and explicit for you.
2) Neither VR nor AR are obsolete.
Personal attacks !=allowed.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| 1) The FAQ didn't change the rules in this matter. If you read the BBB front to back it is quite straightforward that this is how it's been since the book came out over a year ago. Of course there apparently are enough people that just didn't get it that Fanpro threw it into the FAQ. But cripy, I'd expect you'd get it after it was laid out nice and explicit for you. |
Blakkie is right on this point, of course.
Still, most of us will agree that VR needs some love.
For example, matrix maneuvers (evading, hiding, aiming and stuff like that), that are only possible in VR, would be nice.
The one thing I really like about this particular "eviscerate the RAW" thread is that the people who want to change the rules are honest about it.
I usually find these sorts of threads full of people trying to make compelling, book based arguments on why the rules, as written, are not valid and need to be changed. In this thread, people are just saying "screw the FAQ, I want it my own way!" And that's the essence of RPG gaming. Play so you have fun, not to be true to someone else's rules.
Cheers to everyone here for recognizing that when you change that rules to fit your own sense of how the game should work, that's what you're doing!
I usually find these sorts of threads full of people trying to make compelling, book based arguments on why the rules, as written, are not valid and need to be changed. In this thread, people are just saying "screw the FAQ, I want it my own way!" And that's the essence of RPG gaming. Play so you have fun, not to be true to someone else's rules.
Cheers to everyone here for recognizing that when you change that rules to fit your own sense of how the game should work, that's what you're doing!
| QUOTE (ixombie) |
| The one thing I really like about this particular "eviscerate the RAW" thread is that the people who want to change the rules are honest about it. I usually find these sorts of threads full of people trying to make compelling, book based arguments on why the rules, as written, are not valid and need to be changed. In this thread, people are just saying "screw the FAQ, I want it my own way!" And that's the essence of RPG gaming. Play so you have fun, not to be true to someone else's rules. Cheers to everyone here for recognizing that when you change that rules to fit your own sense of how the game should work, that's what you're doing! |
Rules are just this little warning sign that says "if you don't do it this way, it had better work."
That's a general life principle, incidentally.
| QUOTE (blakkie @ Dec 18 2006, 11:08 PM) |
| Holy cow! Do you realise what that means? Well probably not, so I'll spoon feed it to you. |
| QUOTE |
All due apologies, I fear I became totally overwhelmed by your stupid. |
| QUOTE |
And yet there you go again. Don't want want me to treat you like your are a fool? Don't be a fool. |
| QUOTE |
no....fucking...sense. |
| QUOTE |
Oh sure you can say "why should this Matrix topic be any different than the others where I post drivel so incongruent that you are led to wonder if I've ever successfully managed to use a microwave?" But I can dream, can't I, that you'll finally manage to grasp the fact that you're rattlebrained? |
| QUOTE |
Only in the face the personification of thickness. Hey, if I'm going to have to spoon feed people stuff because they're too slow on the uptake to clue in themselves I might as well point out that it's actually pretty straightforward. |
Well. Thats pretty much it. Have a nice life.
My two 
First, as has been pointed out, part of the reasoning for the addition of AR by the developers is to get the fragging Hackers (formerly Deckers) out of isolation and involved with the rest of the team!
VR still gets up to +2 dice which is not the pitifull thing that it's so made out to be under the new rules, two dice more or less means much more than it used to.
Technomancers are not made obsolete by the rules ( I say rules, the faq didn't change things, just clarify). They get to quickly gain an extra IP if so desired, and get other neat bonuses, such as being perfectly able to hack while standing in their skin and naught else. (Think, the team get's captured, stripped of gear, thrown in the cells, they scan for ware, realizing you have none assume you are a magic user, bind you hand and foot, gag you, and throw you in the closet with the server farm. ) Plus sprites, and threading, and echos, Oh My!
Last, on the subject of the mighty Hacker Adepts, yes anyone who is twink happy can play with the RAW and make just about any Uber character they want. IMHO the best defense against any such min/maxing is on pg 87 of the BGB (It's not Black Anymore!) There is a heading Background and Story, and one just before that, Gamemaster's Approval. Just because you can technicaly do someting according to the rules, doesn't mean you have valid In Character reasons for doing so. If you can come up with a convincing back story for you're Adept, clostered deep in the heart of the sprawl, learning to embrace his powers, so that he may become the L33t's d00d EVAH!!!, then sure, I'll allow it, but I's sure love to read that Bio.
First, as has been pointed out, part of the reasoning for the addition of AR by the developers is to get the fragging Hackers (formerly Deckers) out of isolation and involved with the rest of the team!
VR still gets up to +2 dice which is not the pitifull thing that it's so made out to be under the new rules, two dice more or less means much more than it used to.
Technomancers are not made obsolete by the rules ( I say rules, the faq didn't change things, just clarify). They get to quickly gain an extra IP if so desired, and get other neat bonuses, such as being perfectly able to hack while standing in their skin and naught else. (Think, the team get's captured, stripped of gear, thrown in the cells, they scan for ware, realizing you have none assume you are a magic user, bind you hand and foot, gag you, and throw you in the closet with the server farm.
) Plus sprites, and threading, and echos, Oh My!Last, on the subject of the mighty Hacker Adepts, yes anyone who is twink happy can play with the RAW and make just about any Uber character they want. IMHO the best defense against any such min/maxing is on pg 87 of the BGB (It's not Black Anymore!) There is a heading Background and Story, and one just before that, Gamemaster's Approval. Just because you can technicaly do someting according to the rules, doesn't mean you have valid In Character reasons for doing so. If you can come up with a convincing back story for you're Adept, clostered deep in the heart of the sprawl, learning to embrace his powers, so that he may become the L33t's d00d EVAH!!!, then sure, I'll allow it, but I's sure love to read that Bio.
| QUOTE (lorechaser) |
| If you're really concerned, I think simply stating that your AR IPs are equal to your meat IPs-1 (min 1) makes a quick easy fix. Then 1 ip (base) = 1 ip. 2 ip (minimal investment) = 1 ip. 3 ip (Wired 2/Synaptic 2) = 2 ip (less than VR). 4 ip (Hardcore) = 3 ip. |
This might actually be the best house rule I've seen so far, I like it and may implement.
| QUOTE |
| If you can come up with a convincing back story for you're Adept, clostered deep in the heart of the sprawl, learning to embrace his powers, so that he may become the L33t's d00d EVAH!!!, then sure, I'll allow it, but I's sure love to read that Bio. |
If I wrote the whole bio in 1337, would you give me bonus karma?
| QUOTE (ixombie) | ||
If I wrote the whole bio in 1337, would you give me bonus karma? |
Oh no need for that, write it normally, then look up a translation program for l337 speak. There are several about the net put up by parents who are certain that l337 speak is a tool of satan, and that because their kids use it, the MUST be hacking, pirating software, listening to devil music, and sacrificing the neighbourhood's cats on tuesdays.
There was this whole big thing about that stuff in the newspaper few weeks ago or so. I found it funny as hell.
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