I was hoping I could ask the resident firearms expert about 7.92x57 Mauser. I decided to go ahead and implement it in my Fallout 2 mod so that I can overwrite the G11, the G11E, and the Vindicator Minigun with a Mauser K98k, FG42, and MG42 respectively. I need to be able to stat 7.92x57 Mauser.

Just looking at its dimensions it would seem that 7.92x57 is a pretty powerful cartridge. I know that Hitler, as a World War I vet, believed in giant powerful cartridges so presumably that would have affected German armaments in World War II in that direction.

If you had to compare .30-.06 to 7.92x57, how would you do so in terms of bodily trauma potential and effectiveness versus armor? If you give me your take on this I can stat 7.92x57 in my mod against my already existing stats for .30-.06.

Thanks a lot for your help.

First, minor correction: it's ".30-06", not ".30-.06".

Second, the 7.92x57mm cartridge itself would not have been affected much by Mr Hitler, being older than he was by about a year, if Wikipedia is to be trusted. The new standard load from 1942 may have been, though the fact that similar switches to heavier bullets at lower velocities for better long range ballistics happened at least in the US as well (1906 to M1 ball in the .30-06, for example) speaks against that.

That said, I frankly don't know how the potential of the 7.92x57mm compares to that of the .30-06. The diameters of the bullets are too close to make much of a difference for terminal ballistics -- at most, it's .323" vs. .308". In modern commercial loadings the potential of the .30-06 seems much better utilized -- there's no end of higher pressure loads for it, many getting to over 3500ft-lbs of KE at the muzzle. However, the average loadings for the two calibers are pretty close to each other for KE, with the 7.92x57mm tending towards slightly heavier bullets at slightly lower velocities -- in the Guns & Ammo I am currently perusing, the average .30-06 load is 165gr bullet @ 2800fps (2873ft-lbs) or 180gr @ 2700fps (2914ft-lbs), while the average 7.92x57mm is 198gr @ 2550fps (2860ft-lbs).

For commercial loads, then, I'd suggest making them roughly equal for everything. However, if the most common form of ammunition is military FMJ/ball ammo, let's look closer at the 7.92x57mm load from 1942 and the .30-06 M2 ball from 1940. There you've got a 196gr bullet at 2477fps (2670ft-lbs) for the German round, 150gr at 2740fps (2501ft-lbs) for the US one. Still a very small difference and not one that's easy to put in terms of increased injuries to humans, but if you wanted to that would excuse a slightly higher average damage for the 7.92x57mm -- e.g. to the tune of 33-41 vs. 30-40. For penetration of armor, these two loads are as close as makes no difference.

Barrel length should matter as much as caliber here, I think -- all of the above figures are for the ~600mm barrels of a Kar98k and an M1 Garand. An FG42 with its 502mm barrel will get at least around 80fps less velocity at the muzzle than a Kar98k, which could certainly be translated to a slightly lower damage. The MG42 seems to also have a shorter barrel than a Kar98k, so you could shave off a point of damage at the lower end for that as well. That might make close range combat ever-so-slightly more survivable as well -- from my own Fallout 2 editing, I know a 10-round burst from a weapon doing 12-26 is quite enough to rip most characters limb-from-limb, so I dread to think what an even bigger burst (as the 1200+rpm MG42 is likely to get) from a weapon averaging over 30 damage will do. One thing's for sure: you won't need to fear the aliens in the mines anymore.

Thanks for the tip. I think I'll do what you suggested, then...leave armor penetration about the same but give the Mauser cart a little more damage out of the karbiner.

In fact, my fear about the MG42 being uber seems to be mirroring yours. I'll have to playtest and see what's what.

One thing I think is going to quickly happen with damage ratings that high is that the early (as in prior to improved combat armor and power suits) mass combats, like those against the slavers in... The Den? ...are going to get really hard.

For example, I've currently got a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle doing 12-20, Damage Multiplier 3/2, DR Mod +10%. MP5 8-13 damage, 10-round bursts, 2/1 with +35% DR (JHP) or 1/1 with -25% DR (AP). Hunting Rifle 8-22, 1/1, -25% DR. Pump Shotgun 16-26, 2/1, +0% DR (Slugs). Basic Metal Armor Damage Threshold 4, Damage Reduction 40%. And I remember the ganger fight a serious pain in the ass, and finally beating it by telling my teammates to hide and sniping from a window down the street with an FN FAL -- if I tried to get any closer, my whole team was mincemeat in a round or two.

Of course, that's realistic: you wouldn't want to engage an enemy that has a huge numerical superiority in the open. On the other hand, if you're forced to use exploits or tricks (like the AI not realizing it can run around the building instead of standing outside in the street getting sniped from the window) in every battle it gets a bit repetitive, too.

Also, I wonder what that does to the importance of Initiative... I can't remember how common it is to have people suddenly draw guns on you at close quarters, but with damage ratings this high that'd be absolutely deadly unless you get to interrupt them in places like New Reno, etc. Although I don't remember that being an issue for me, so I guess 10 more points of damage per hit wouldn't make that big of a difference there...

Damn, I might have to start a new game now.