Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Charisma and technomancers.
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
SpasticTeapot
I'm running a game where all players start with a paltry 300BP, and just about everyone needs skill points in everything. I'm hoping to start this game off in a low-key manner, as opposed to the massive standard shadowrun smash-and-grabs.

Anywho, I have a guy who's playing a technomancer, but only has a Resonance of . (Maximum magic/resonance of 3 for starting characters is my rule). He actually has decent hacking skills - thanks to his Logic of 5 - but, being based off the player himself, only has a charisma of 2. (Oddly enough, he also has Unarmed Combat 4, based off of his player. Strictly speaking, in real life he might be up to Unarmed Combat 5 - he's been practicing hard-core Tae-Kwon-Do for most of his life.)

Now, seeing as how techies are generally unsociable, it would make more sense to me that some of the attributes could work off of willpower instead. Strictly speaking, mental fortitude equates well to willpower, while charisma is a better marker of people-person skills. (And I can assure you, there are lots of spineless people out there with impressive people-person skills. I've had to deal with far too many).
deek
I'm struggling to find a question needing addressed by your post. Are you wanting to suggest using willpower more for the technomancer?
nathanross
Charisma is not looks, though that may play a certain part. Charisma as defined by Dictionary.com is a divinely conferred gift or power, a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people. It is synonymous with charm, magnetism, presence.

Charisma is important to a TM only for the purpose of biofeedback filter. It is your armor against IC, and cannot be bought as a Complex Form. Charisma also limits the amount of bound sprites that you can have, and those are the life-blood of a TM. You may even houserule that since all damage to your persona/icon is damage to the TM, Armor stacks with Biofeedback when defending against damage from matrix attacks.

Point is, DON'T SLOUCH ON CHARISMA!
lorechaser
Point is don't try to make a technomancer on 300 bps. wink.gif
DigitEyez
QUOTE (SpasticTeapot)
Now, seeing as how techies are generally unsociable, it would make more sense to me that some of the attributes could work off of willpower instead. Strictly speaking, mental fortitude equates well to willpower, while charisma is a better marker of people-person skills. (And I can assure you, there are lots of spineless people out there with impressive people-person skills. I've had to deal with far too many).

Technomancers are not necessarily Technies. They have an intuitive feel about the matrix that alows them to interact with it but they don't need to know any 'tech' stuff to do so. In fact, if you want to use normal computers you need another skill, the regular computer skill which isn't compatible with the technomancer version of the skill. If you have both, which I doubt technomancers have enough BP for, even more so when there's only 300 BP to spent. The Technomancer V2.0 thread shows un-nerfed technomancers since they need an awfull lot of BP to measure up to regular hackers.
Garrowolf
Yes but I have to agree with the OP. Biofeedback based on Charisma didn't make sense to me either. I'm not saying that you should use it as a dump stat but I do believe that your characters should have weaknesses and trying to tie so many attributes to your character type produces even less realistic characters.
SpasticTeapot
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Yes but I have to agree with the OP. Biofeedback based on Charisma didn't make sense to me either. I'm not saying that you should use it as a dump stat but I do believe that your characters should have weaknesses and trying to tie so many attributes to your character type produces even less realistic characters.

I have to agree.

Charisma - as I define it - is force of personality, and the ability to influence others. Abraham Lincoln had it, and so did Hitler.

While this may be useful in determining, say, the number of Sprites one can bind, the ability to influence others is not so useful as the ability to avoid being influenced yourself - Willpower.

There are men out there - some of them in our own government - who, though able to influence vast numbers of people, are downright spineless. And there are people who, though able to deal with the worst forms of torture imaginable, are downright repugnant and almost alien - hence, having a low Charisma.

Finally, dealing with data is a lot different from dealing with people. A friend of mine, who is autistic, is a good example - he's not really a people person, but he can intuitively understand advanced mathematics.
nathanross
Charisma is Biofeedback because it relates to your image of yourself and your ability to handle the stress of dealing with people better than other people. It is the real armor for your living persona because your persona is you, and IC is trying to disrupt your being, or essence if you will. I may just be spouting shit, but that is what it means to me.
QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Posted on Apr 2 2007, 05:44 PM)
Yes but I have to agree with the OP. Biofeedback based on Charisma didn't make sense to me either. I'm not saying that you should use it as a dump stat but I do believe that your characters should have weaknesses and trying to tie so many attributes to your character type produces even less realistic characters.

You are right that as things stand, good TMs are not realistic, but that doesnt mean it is illogical, just that you will have to make sacrifices, or not play TMs.
Garrowolf
I think that Willpower is a better stat for the strength of your self image. I've know people that were very manipulative and could talk people into alot but if you stood your ground much they folded.
Spike
I can definitely see Charisma as being armor for the soul. Even in the face of Willpower. Willpower, in this case, represents his body, his ability to take the hits and keep standing. Charisma is the ability to, by dint of personality if you want, deflect the blows, to ignore them as ineffectual.

Consider this: landing a truely cutting insult against a charismatic person can be challenging, their magnatism, their blith acceptance of their place in the social heirarchy see to it that they can ignore most 'attacks' as beneath them. However, if you DO land a telling social blow against them, they are likelier to fold due to it's power and unexpectedness...

Now, translate the metaphor. Insults are web attacks, charisma is the 'aloof resistance' to the attacks, and willpower is their ability to stand to those attacks which actually hit.

Make any sense?
DigitEyez
QUOTE (Spike @ Apr 3 2007, 05:02 PM)
I can definitely see Charisma as being armor for the soul. Even in the face of Willpower.  Willpower, in this case, represents his body, his ability to take the hits and keep standing. Charisma is the ability to, by dint of personality if you want, deflect the blows, to ignore them as ineffectual.

I totally wanted to say this but in the end couldn't find the right words... thanks. smile.gif
Plus, its magi... erm... techic. It doesn't have to make sense. wink.gif

I do agree that TM need way to much BP & Karma to be efficient, that's why I pointed out to the V2.0 thread.
Garrowolf
But I would never use Charisma as a resistance attribute in a social situation. I would use it as a way of initiating a manipulation but willpower would be the resistance. That is what we are talking about here.
Ravor
Be that as it may, my understanding of Biofeedback Filter is that it is based off the strenght of your self image ... your personality itself for lack of better words. Fluff wise it makes sense to me, although I'm not going to even try to address the issue of Game Balance given how utterly broken Technomancers are in their current state.
Catharz Godfoot
One simple but perverse way to deal with it is merging the attribues into 4 instead of eight, so you have Body (= Str & Bod), Intelligence (= Int & Log), Quickness (= Agi & Rea), and Will (= Cha & Wil).

It's perverse in the sense that you're changing something much more basic to sidestep the problem, but it works well with more than just the technomancer's biofeedback filter. You don't even have to really change anything, just make sure than you keep the paired stats equal. nyahnyah.gif
Garrowolf
okkkkkaaayyyyy
DigitEyez
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
But I would never use Charisma as a resistance attribute in a social situation. I would use it as a way of initiating a manipulation but willpower would be the resistance. That is what we are talking about here.

I'd say not getting conned can easily be seen as a resistance test and there you use charisma. The developers obviously looked at mages when creating technomancers. Too bad they didn't look at the SR4 mages when deciding how technomancers should get higher complex form ratings...

Maybe it's just the technomancer = geek stereotype that was in the original post that makes me feel like I have to oppose this. biggrin.gif Because in my view technomancers aren't geeks at all, they may have the abilities that geeks have / want to have but the ease with which they come to them (disregarding current brokenness) makes them less likely to be geeks.

That said, if you feel like charisma doesn't reflect biofeedbackfilter it certainly wouldn't hurt to un-nerf them some more.
Eleazar
Creating a technomancer when such low BP are available is highly disadvantageous to the player. It just isn't enough and is an even greater strain on karma. You have less BP to use effectively in regards to karma vs. BP efficiency. As long as he is ok with sucking even more than a hacker, everything should be ok. He will probably find himself rather crippled. Realize it will take him much longer than anyone else to be adequately effective in their roles. At least with 400BP you could be conscious of effectively spending BP so all the karma investment doesn't take as big of a tole. With 300BP this will be difficult to do, and a greater karma investment will be needed. If I were the GM I would advise against it, or throw some bones his way.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012