Down in the Gutter

Welcome to Down in the Gutter, an SR 4 gang-oriented campaign based in the Redmond Barrens, Seattle, circa 2070.

This thread is solely to determine potential interest and provide interested players and GMs a central location to work on the framework and support structure of the campaign. An official Recruitment thread will be opened once it is determined that the game is ready to go.

For now, the purpose of this thread is the following:

1. To lay out the basic premise of the campaign
2. To solicit interest from any potential GMs interested in being part of this campaign.
3. To gauge potential player interest.
4. To provide a central location to build the game and exchange input in preparation for the actual campaign.

What is Down in the Gutter?

The basic premise of Down in the Gutter (hereby referred to as DITG) is simple. PCs will be part of a newly formed third tier gang down in the gutter that is the Redmond Barrens. As just one third tier street gang among hundreds, the PCs face an uphill battle to even survive, let alone expand and grow. This game will chronicle the rise (and possibly fall) of a brand new street gang struggling to make their mark on the sprawl, with an inner look at the lives of those who call the gang family.

As the story opens, a new street gang (the PC's Gang) has risen from the ashes of a recent large scale gang war that left numerous gangs crippled or destroyed. It is now up to the PCs and your recently formed gang to step into the resulting power vacuum.

Play will begin in the hour immediately following the conclusion of the climactic rumble, leaving PCs in the tense position of needing to regroup and deciding what to do next. Did you win or lose the battle? Whichever it was, where do you go from here? What do you do next?

You will need to gather up the survivors, put them on the streets, establish control of your turf, protect it against anyone getting ideas, and set about the task of trying to systematically build up your third-tier gang into a force to be reckoned with on the street, all while trying to survive day-to-day.

This will be an R-rated gang campaign, and focuses on survival and life on the mean streets of the Barrens. While I will not be gratuitous, I will not hold back in my portrayal of harsh (but very real) circumstances on the streets. Starvation, murder, abuse, addiction, prostitution, exploitation, rape, organlegging, and other potentially uncomfortable topics have a very good chance of showing up in the course of the campaign. Players should be willing to role-play the daily moral dilemmas and difficult questions that arise in the course of attempting to survive in a street gang.

Put another way, this is NOT ‘gang as after-school extracurricular activity or glamorous career path’. To quote an excellent GM on these forums, it IS ‘I need to commit petty crime X so I can put gas in my bike, have enough to eat today, and if I’m really lucky, go out and get trashed with my homies tonight’.

Regarding game play, the gang as institution will serve as the primary plot mover of the campaign, with the story progressing and revolving around the gang as a whole. The primary focus is on the development of the gang, with a secondary emphasis on inter-PC interaction with your fellow gang members.

Consequently, PCs have a lot of freedom and responsibility to develop their personal lives independently of GM involvement. There is absolutely no way I can devote time to each and every PCs personal life. Specific posting guidelines will be forthcoming if this project moves forward, but be forewarned, if you are not a player who enjoys independent action but prefers having a GM direct you from point A to point B, there will be no GM directing your character's personal life.

If you are a player who is interested in a long-term game that focuses on social role-playing with other PCs, wants to explore the harsh realities of life on the streets, and enjoys building things over a long period of time (namely the gang), then this may be the game for you.

Who are we looking for?

Players

I am looking for players who are consistent and committed to the idea of developing a gang and bringing it to life over an extended period of time.

I want players who enjoy interacting with other PCs and portraying the complexity of interpersonal relationships.

I need players who can function independently without a GM looking over their shoulder while exercising the necessary balance of discretion and ambition to move their character’s personal storylines forward to bring them to life without metagaming.

It is a requirement that players can play nice together and work as a collective unit, particularly out of game, since this will require input and collaboration of multiple parties to make it work.

It is also appreciated for players who have expertise in certain areas (magic, hacking, rigging, etc) to be willing to lend their expertise on an ‘as needed’ basis when those situations come up to help get through those thorny rules issues quickly and accurately.

Finally, I want players who have a passion for creating things, who want to bring to life the details of life in a street gang, in its entire dark and grim splendor.

GMs

Experience has taught me that no enterprise of this nature can be effectively run alone. Therefore, I am looking for a few good men and women to share the burden. I am hoping to staff the OOTG crew with the following volunteers:

Opposition Force GM: Required

Simply put, one of the biggest obstacles to a gang campaign is the sheer number of dice rolls needed in combat, especially big brawls, as the PCs can easily number 10-20, and then the opposition force(s) can easily push the number of combatants to 40+ in an all out gang rumble.

Needless to say, one GM cannot handle all this alone. Therefore, I am looking for at least one GM (but more is always good!) to handle the creation of opposing gangs and control them in combat.

If you enjoy tactics, strategy, simulations, anything along those lines, this is the ideal position for you. Essentially, you will have control over other gangs and run them in combat. If you are convinced that your strategic and tactical mind is superior, this is your chance to prove it. It will be any Opp Force GMs (plus myself as needed) controlling the NPCs against the PCs during combats, so basically, you’ll be playing the NPCs as if they were your PCs.

If I do not get at least one, preferably two volunteers for this position, this campaign unfortunately cannot go forward. I already know I cannot single-handedly run a large scale gang combat without the game coming to almost a complete standstill. I do have a combat procedure in mind to (hopefully) ensure large scale combats don’t drag unnecessarily, but I will need assistance to pull it off.

So if you want to match wits with your fellow DSers, enjoy combat simulation type games, and are interested in this position, please let me know.

Wiki/Website Manager(s): Required, can still be a PC

Part of the challenge running a gang campaign is keeping track of the sheer volume of necessary information. Gang turf maps, important landmarks, gang history, buildings and people in a gang’s turf, allies and enemies, the gang members themselves, etc. are all necessary to keep track of in order to help players and GMs bring the game to life.

I personally lack the technical skill to run a wiki or website to keep track of all the information we will need, so if someone cannot do so, the game will rapidly degenerate because no one will have a clear idea of something as simple as their gang turf. Needless to say, when which side of the street you’re on can mean the difference between life and death, that’s not a very good situation.

Whether as PC or GM, if you are interested in being the resident ‘person or persons who keeps track of everything and organizes it so everyone else can know what the heck is going on’, please let me know.

Player GMs: Optional but a positive

Anyone who enjoys creating things or GMing more detailed elements of a players’ life would be excellent here. Obviously there’s a lot of work involved in creating a world, especially a detailed microcosm of one. If you would like to help create other gangs, turf, or GMing the PC’s lives in more detail, that would be fantastic, but not strictly necessary like the above positions.

Nonetheless, anyone who would like to contribute to the campaign by GMing in any capacity, please let me know.

So what now?

If you are still interested in participating in this campaign, the immediate step is to work on the creation of the gang itself. Suggestions on the following would be appreciated:

- Gang Name
- Specific Territory in Redmond Barrens (use Google Maps to assist you)
- Gang Colors & Symbol

You will note that certain elements common to all gangs (e.g. Initiation Rituals, Races Allowed, Operations, etc.) have been omitted. This is intentional. This campaign will use an ‘organic gang creation’ method, wherein players will decide on these things through role-playing during play as they develop the gang.

The following individuals have already been contacted or expressed interest in potentially being a part of this campaign:

Grendel
Vegas
Mister Juan
DireRadiant
Slipshade
ES Sparky
Rokur
Wounded Ronin

If you are interested in adding your name to this list and beginning to contribute, please post your thoughts, questions, comments, ideas, and especially any desire to participate in any of the aforementioned roles needed to continue with the campaign.

Once I fill the required roles above (assuming I actually do), specific details on character creation, storyline, etc. will be hammered out and posted in a formal recruitment thread, since I will obviously not be continuing a project I know will eventually fall apart anyway. For now, as new developments arise I will post them in this initial post with a corresponding announcement. So if you’re interested, step up and speak up, and we’ll see where we go from here.

NOTE: Credit given to Tinkergnome and the old 410 Crash game for the basis of the Character Generation rules, which will be used extensively in this campaign.

Game Related Links
Down in the Gutter Wiki
Map of Redmond Borders

Power Level
A general note on power level. Gangers are not Shadowrunners. They're not even close. They're also not professionals who know the best weapons to use and the best ways to employ them. Gangers should be relatively low powered. Though the exact nature of the gang will determine a lot, guns shouldn't be anyone's first option in combat. That's how turf wars get started and a lot of gangers get dead.
The GM will likely have a heavy hand in things which he believes are too strong.

Build Points
300

Attributes

- Physical/Mental are limited to 200 bp

- Magic and Resonance are limited to 3

- Magic and Resonance cost 25 build points per point

- Awakened and technomancer characters must have an essence of 5 or greater

Skills

- PCs may buy only one skill at 4 (and none higher). Skill groups and all other skills are capped at 3.

- Specializations must be limiting in some way (i.e. No generic ‘Martial Arts’ specialization for Unarmed Combat that effectively raises your Unarmed Combat skill to 6)

- Specializations that raise skill dice above 4 (e.g. Blades 3 w/Specialization in Swords would effectively grant 5 skill dice to Sword related rolls) must be specifically explained.

I will disallow any specializations that raise skill dice above 4 unless your rationale really impresses me. If you want to know what really impresses me, take a look at the Living in the Shadows Guidelines thread and you should have an idea of what will impress me. If you need more specific guidance, ask me.

Any effective skill level of 5 or 6 puts you among the best in the world. If you’re going to be world-class without the benefit of cyber or magic and running with a third-tier street gang, you better have a very good reason.

Race

The available races may be restricted during the creation of the gang. Some gangs won't accept trolls or orks, some won't take elves. Some parts of town are better or worse on various gangers. This will be organically determined during play.

I.e. If there are no elves in the starting batch of PCs, it’s possible the gang will not allow elves. On the other hand, if there are three elves in the starting batch, it’s highly unlikely the gang will suddenly outlaw elves from joining the gang

Positive Qualities

- Adept: There will be a TBD limit on the number of adepts allowed; currently I am projecting a limit of two.

- Aptitude: This quality works as per normal and also raises the character generation cap on the skill by one. The cost to raise a skill from 4 to 5 is 8 bp. After character generation, the cost reverts to normal. This quality could also be used to gain two skills at 4 (the cost to go from 3 to 4 is not raised).

- Home Turf: All gangers recieve Home Turf at no bp cost. The bonus will only apply on a common sense basis. E.g. You might receive a bonus to Shadowing on your turf because you know it intimately, but you won’t miraculously become a better Pistols user just because you happen to be standing on your side of the street.

- Magician: There will be a TBD limit on the number of magicians allowed; currently I am projecting a limit of two.

- Technomancers: Technomancers will be disallowed unless you have a very impressive and good backstory for one.

Negative Qualities

- Addiction: No more than 10 bp should be gained from this quality (two mild or one moderate).

- Incompotent: May only be taken for skills a character is fairly likely to need on a regular basis. Selection of this flaw will face scrutiny.

- SINer (regular): You should have a strong reason for having one and being on the streets.

- Uncouth: Not allowed. Gangs are social groups, after all.

- Uneducated: Not generally allowed (read the description in the book). Requires special GM permission.

No cheap flaws. Awakened characters with Sensitive System, cheap allergies like gold, etc. will be disallowed. If I don’t think you’re going to be bothered enough by your flaw to warrant the BP, I will disallow it.

Gear

- Ratings are limited to 4 and availability is limited to 6.

- Each mundane character may have one item of up to rating 6 and avail 12.

- Dermal Plating 3, Muscle Replacement 3, Hand Razors, Handblades, and Spurs are allowed regardless of availablility

- Each build point spent on resources provides 2,500 nuyen instead of the standard 5,000. Players are limited to spending 20 BP on resources. (50,000 nuyen)

- Cyberware and bioware may not reduce the character's essence below 3.

- Alpha grade implants are not available.

Lifestyle

Since forum games run a lot slower and the focus of this game is on day-to-day survival in the gang, lifestyles will be paid daily. Divide the type of lifestyle by the number of days in the month to determine your daily lifestyle expenditure.

E.g. A Low lifestyle in January will cost 2,000/31 = 65 nuyen per day.

Lifestyles may not be prepaid by more than one week. No lifestyles above Low.

Contacts

Connection rating is limited to 3. Loyalty may be up to 6. It will not be necessary to purchase other gangers (in the PC's gang) as contacts. Gangers from other gangs would need to be purchased.

Advancement

Karma will be awarded on a weekly basis. Advancement will require training time in addition to expenditure of karma.

Thirty Questions

Background

1. Where and in what kind of environment did your character grow up?

2. What are your character’s relations with their family? (Does your character keep in touch? Where are they now?)

3. Does your character have an ethnic background? (Is it relevant to them?)

Appearance

4. What does your character look like?

5. What does your character dress like?

6. What are your character’s physical quirks?

Skills, attributes, resources

7. What did your character always want to be? (How did they go about getting this job/position/ability/image? Did they succeed?)

8. Where and how did your character learn their Active and Knowledge Skills?

9. Where and how did your character get their major equipment and ‘ware?

10. Where and in what kind of place does your character currently live?

11. Who are your character’s contacts? (How did they become contacts? Why do they still talk to your character?)

12. Who are your character’s enemies? (How did they become your character’s enemies?)

13. For Awakened characters, how did your character learn their magic? For non-Awakened characters, how does your character feel about magic?

Personality

14. What are your character’s personality quirks?

15. What are your character’s likes and dislikes?

16. What is your character’s moral code?

17. Does your character have personal beliefs?

18. What are your character’s personal motivations?

Running with the gang

19. Why does your character run with the gang?

20. When and how did your character join the gang?

21. How does your character contribute to the gang? What is his role; not just in terms of how he/she makes money, but where does he/she fit in the social hierarchy?

22. What would make your character ever leave the gang?

23. How does your character feel about their life in the gutter as part of a street gang? What is their view of the rest of the world? (i.e. Non-gangers)

24. If your character could have their ideal life outside of the gang, describe what that ideal life would be.

25. What ambitions does your character have for the gang as a whole? What ambitions does your character have for their place within the gang?

26. If your character is a recent addition from another gang, how does your character feel about joining a new gang? If your character is not a recent addition from another gang, how does your character feel about the new arrivals to the gang?

27. How does your character view relationships within the gang, both romantic and friendship? How does your character view relationships outside the gang, both romantic and friendship?

28. What is your character’s view of the other gangs in the area? (Note: Wait until other gang info is up and available before answering this question.)

29. What is your character’s attitude towards/view of the gang as a whole?

30. What is your character’s view of each of his fellow gang members? Answer for each gang member listed below. (Note: Cannot be completed until our final roster is fleshed out. Update this as membership roster changes or significant events occur. Specify events or reasons that led to changes in perception. Do not delete prior perceptions, just add what has changed and why.)

I would like to express my interest as a Player GM and Opposition GM. I am on the board regularly, 2 times a day at least, and like to write out descriptive posts. As it is right now, I am active in 2-3 games, one of them being LITS as a player, and feel that I have enought time on my hands to handle this with little problems.

I would also like to be a player in this game, but I belive that would have the problem of I couldn't play the Opposition GM.

Konsaki - Thanks much for volunteering! It's a huge relief to have you onboard, I'm looking forward to having you on the Staff.

If you like, you can play an NPC within the PC gang. I'm open to having a few of those for the GMs so they can experience the interactive role-playing too, because it's easily one of the most appealing things about this campaign.

As a matter of fact, I personally was planning on having an NPC within the gang so I could have the fun of the interactive role-playing, so I certainly have no problems with you doing it as well.

Sounds great. I could do an NPC, I think.
I just need information to get my brain grinding which I guess I should ask in a PM.

I would love to be a player in this game.

I would especially like to play a budding mage or adept (start at Magic 1). But if all four (?) spaces are taken, mundane would be fine.

I fear I am already just way too busy GMing to make an effective contribution to your staff, and if that deprioritizes my acceptance, I do understand.

As for "gang ideas," one thing that occurred to me, in light of the "organic gang creation idea," was that at this end of this Gang War Apocalypse you describe, the survivors are from a bunch of different gangs. Left totally alone without their usual support networks, they must team up with their former sworn enemies to have a chance for survival.

Gang colors, customs, etc. could grow out of this amalgam.

Just a thought.

Interested in playing.

Can't contribute much for the next couple of weeks but I may be able to provide some technical support in the form of dice rolling scripts and/or site management after that point.

I volunteer to be the plucky sidekick!

Woo hoo! Now we're cooking with gas!

Can't wait for this to really get down to brainstorming. I'm cooking up a character in my head. Don't know what more I can do within the staff outside of offering my abilities to be a Wiki-mistress or whatnot.

I'll do some more brainstorming about generics to toss up there for the gang and hopefully more people will toss out ideas too.

ETA: Any thoughts to ages in this situation... I mean I know there's not a hard or fast rule by any means, but like in the 410 game since we were all so green we all opted to be relatively young... or are we gonna run the gambit here as far as age goes?

Adamu - I've seen your Hitting Bottom game, and I'd definitely love to have a player/GM of your caliber on board.

And truth be told, I like the idea of having a budding mage or adept as opposed to 4 'maxed out' mages/adepts in the gang. It'll add a nice element of variety.

Regarding your idea, a result of the Gang War is that it will specifically affect the political situation the PC Gang finds themselves in at the start of play.

However, it is quite plausible that gangers from now extinct gangs will need a place to go, and could possibly join up with the PC gang, forming some interesting inter-gang dynamics. I like it and I think I'll flesh it out a bit more when I work with Konsaki and any other GMs on forming the other area gangs.

Vegas and DireRadiant - Any wisdom you'd like to contribute from your time in the 410 Crash or LITS to help people understand what we're looking for would be great.

Obviously our experiences with the 410 Crash are forming a foundation that we're building off of, and LITS's strong support system and uniform standards in terms of posting, character development and story progression may serve as valuable references if you have any insights you'd like to share.

Re Ages: I'd guess between 13-23, with the median age being 18, which gives us a +/- 5 year range. Keep in mind that 23 is practically ancient by ganger standards, so if you're going for a 23 year old, they should have been around the proverbial block a few times by now.

Because of the recent gang war and Adamu's insightful comment that there will be survivors who need to find another gang to call home, it's reasonable for older gang characters to have been in previous gangs if you desire, although it's not required. Keep in mind though that play begins 1 hour after the climactic fight, so any 'transplants' would have to have had their original gang wiped out before the final battle.

I realize the definition of appropriate ages for a gang can be largely subjective. Since I'm going for an R-rated gang campaign with mature themes, I'm trying to keep the age range open enough to allow for a wide variety of concepts while keeping the average age at a level close to what one would expect given the hardcore nature of the gang life and activities we'll be portraying.

I'm having some strong inclination toward cooking up some form of adept... and just like adamu, probably someone's who's a starter in the awakened realm.

I'm interested, I have a whizkid ganger and a phys-ad ganger I'm interested in playing, so dealer's choice.

Cedric - It's your character in a long term game. I'm not going to pick for you, since you're the guy stuck playing it.

That said, ultimately the slots are filled by who is selected, not who 'calls dibs' or submits first. So if you can't decide, just submit both.

E.g. If I end up with 3 magicians and 3 adepts, I will pick the 2 best concepts of each. You might get one or the other, you might get both and have to make a choice, you might get neither and have to go with a mundane character. But it's ok to submit both if you really can't decide, although I prefer you do pick one so it cuts down on the number of submissions I have.

DireRadiant - If you think you have a good idea for a TM, go ahead and develop it. Be forewarned, you better know your TM stuff well because my knowledge on that topic is not so great, so I won't be walking you through everything step by step if you don't know your stuff. Don't go with the 'Helen of Troy' thing though, to be explained in my next post.

Suggestions:

#1. Clear concrete rules on taking over bits of turf would be awesome.

#2. It would probably be really beneficial to split the gangs into sqauds. Like alpha, bravo, charlie, and delta. And then opp gm's would only have to deal with their sqaud of gangers. Each sqaud would run on a time frame like one week and at the beginning of each week people could switch in and out of different sqauds based on several factors like activity, roleplaying, whatever.

#4. The game sounds really fun to play in but i dont think I can handle the scale. I need my hand held alot still hehehe.

Yeah the storyline kinda has the feel of the movie "The Warriors". All the gangs get together to talk piece and alliance and then one gang takes out the guy who calls them all together and chaos ensues. One gang gets falsely blamed for killing the leader guy and the rest of them try to kill that one gang.

Your story could be that there are so many gangs and they are so widespread and out of control that one day just out of the blue, Lonestar and Knight Errant start systematically lashing out at the gangs whereever and however possable like its open season. They are in competition for a huge bonus from the city and the goal is to see who can contain/nuetralize the gangs the best.

This shatters gangs left and right and send the smaller ones scurrying for any hidey hole they can find which results in alot of the shattered gangs all ending up in like a certain sqaure block(undetermined size) section of the city. The security forces are content with corraling the gangs into a very localized spot and stop pushing. Instead they fall back and just maintain a perimeter and work on clearing out the gangs still left in the city.

Enter the players. The left overs from several different gangs with all kinds of different stories depicting what happened to pieces and parts of their old gangs. Realizing to many people are dead to attempt to just recruit new members, they have to merge and start over. Staking out their own turf and protecting it from others while at the same time trying to gain new turf and climb to the top of the pile.

Maybe instead of cops that shatter the gangs it could be just ordinary , every day citizens who are sick and tired of the gangs and organize a huge resistance. I mean they would know everything about the gangs anyways since they have had to live amongst them for so long.

Ah, my GM staff is already in gear. There's a reason I always try to recruit assistance. Get quality people, give them direction, and work them till they drop...er, let them do their jobs, that's my motto!

To jump on the adept bandwagon, I have an adept concept, but it's WAY gimped from a mechancis point of view. I really dig it though. It's twisted.

This isn't that adept concept from Quixotic Restoration, is it?

Okay then I'll post my ganger kid, I've been dying to try this type of character since I read Heros Die by Stover, but I'm not using the name Caine.

Do you want me to PM you the character sheet or post it here in spoilers or what?

No, it'll be a retool of a concept that I had for a game I didn't make it in to. A pretty big retool, given the BP limit. Right in line with my special brand of deranged masochism. Oh...

...I did love this about JAX from 410 Crash... his tats, that could flouresce and display messages. Would that take an essence cost? It's not exactly canon.

Hey all, I'd like to get into this as a player, if possible.

Playing a talented, mundane guy with some practical leadership experience.

Since we're playing 'budding' characters, WinterRat, would you give us some guidance on the use of the 'latent awakening' thing? Maybe even "either latent awakening or latent technomancer but I wouldn't know because it hasn't happened yet?" I'm not married to either notion; my character concept is more along the lines of 'streetwise useful dude with opportunities to grow and develop'

Concept for a sheet will be sent fairly soon.

Cedric - Post the character sheet here in spoilers so everyone can take a look and start getting a feel for potential fellow gangers.

Sparky - No essence cost. The tattoo thing is pretty common these days as I understand it from the flavor text in SR 4. Go ahead and run with it.

Rob - 'Latent awakening' in this case will simply mean you have a magic rating (probably no greater than 1) but no corresponding abilities such as adept powers, sorcery or conjuring skill, etc. You'd have to learn to use your magical abilities in the course of the game.

We've already got numerous people who'd like to play Awakened characters though, so I think it might best for you to stick with the mundane character if you don't mind. I'd rather avoid taking up a spot from other Awakened characters, especially since the mundane character idea you have fits the campaign perfectly fine.

Thanks Konsaki. I'll keep the recruity-stuff in my pocket, for now. In the interest of few extraneous posts, edited this one rather than reposting.

Nada problemo regarding latent awakening. Plenty of room to develop in other areas.

I second the 'squad' idea - but I think that's the kind of thing that it would be fun to see how it develops. Let the players and characters who demonstrate some leadership skills kinda 'fall in' to those positions.

If there's as many PCs as is suggested, trying to get us to agree on a gang name/colors/etc. may just take forever. Guess we'll see how it plays out. I'm kind of partial to 'los eight balls,' but that's memories of middle school. Colors and icon suggest themselves immediately.

One thing that might be a good idea is to establish a planning map fairly soon. Since nothing like the redmond barrens currently exists in seattle, or America, maybe grabbing some google earth photos from somewhere like Juarez or Mexico City could establish the feel. A posted link to that map here, with some microsoft-painted in gang boundaries/landmarks would be a lifesaver.

Cheers,
Rob

PS: One other thing. I will have a bit of time in the next two weeks, so I can plan a little bit off the google earth map.

@Rob
Based off my experience with WR1, you might want to PM your character to him verses posting it in this thread.

- Note to everyone
This is not technicly the recruitment thread for characters per say. It is a brainstorming thread where we are ironing out the ideas which will set down the setting, area and situation your characters will be living out.
While you are free and encouraged to create characters which will be the gangers in this game, please concentrate more on talking about what you would like the game to be. Without a concrete world to start out in, you can count on a shaky start.

This is going to be a great undertaking, akin to the 'Living in the Shadows' world. Without your ideas and comments, it will be that much harder to complete.

I may Lurk. This sounds like it's gonna be awesome. (that and I have three games ATM , so I'm not really looking for a new one)

May I suggest the Escape From series with Kurt Russell for inspiration. Everybody's desperate to get the frag outta here. Just throww in a few ghouls and watch em run. That and some how I always see the nutso plastic surgeon from Esacpe from LA, when some one says they have a street doc contact "It's such a shame you only have one eye, but still it's such a pretty eye"

Re Squad Idea: Since it's come up twice, I'll address it briefly. I'm not going to pigeonhole the game or the gang by permanently or prematurely dividing up the gangers into squads. The GM Staff will evalulate each situation and respond accordingly.

E.g. If the gang splits up into two groups and both get into fights, then Wounded Ronin will handle one group as the Opp GM and Konsaki will handle the other. If we have one big fight, perhaps all 3 of us will handle different areas. And so on. So there will be times a 'squad system' comes into play, but it will not be a permanent nor consistent feature of play.

Re Gang Name/Colors: I hear your concerns Rob, let me just say from experience it doesn't take as long as you think. There's only so many gang names out there everyone can agree on that don't make you sound like idiots. Amazingly enough, in this matter democracy in action actually works.

Re Turf: Use google maps and search for 'Redmond, Seattle'. That will actually correspond rather well with Redmond in SR. You can start narrowing down specific areas for turf from there.

A final map will be posted when the GM Staff finishes their list of other gangs in the area. For now, it's open to you guys to brainstorm what area you should stake out for your turf.

By way of example, here's the link to the old 410 Crash gang turf:

Old 410 Crash Gang Turf

This is also one of the 410 Crash game's old wikis. I don't mind you poking around and looking to get a feel for the game, but it's not mine, so please don't edit or change anything in it out of respect for the people who put in the work to create it in the first place. Thanks!

And here is the logic/argument I presented the group (I was a PC in that game) that broke down my reasons for suggesting that turf:



Hope this helps you all in your quest to determine what piece of ground your lives will be inexorably tied to.

One thing that, I think, needs explained out is the starting lifestyle purchasing.

Do starting characters only pay 1/4 the cost of the lifestyle from thier chargen cash and then get the full payout for starting cash after that?

The standard thing is to buy them up for a full month for the starting char, unless you are going street. I know that all the gang members involved have just survived a gang war, but that doesnt mean that thier homes have been destroyed.

Oh, right, I'll handle the wiki if we're using it... I'd prefer to use the same wiki host as the 410, since I know that one best, but wherever... No promises on quality if we use something that isn't wikispaces though.

What do you want it called? "DownInTheGutter" ? Or something else?

Sparky -

I'd be happy to share the Wiki management duties with you if you're up for it. I was planning on just doing something up on wikispaces since that too is what I am familiar with and seems to be becoming a popular location for DSF'ers

Gang Name:
I've some experience with gangs and their names, I defend a lot of these people, and many of them take their names from their turf. BGL-Bell Garden Locos originated out of Bell Garden California and are associated with the sorenos. NSV: North Side Villians- obvious, XIV: 14th Street gang using the roman numerials for 14 as their tag signs, LVL Lower Valley Lords, etc. I think it'd be easier to locate a prospective turf and then use that locale to come up with a gang name. Avondale Avengers, Lakeside Acids, etc.

Speaking of tag signs, if I get Artisan(Painting) is that enough of a specialization?

Or we could use a common theme, the Wild Hunt= Irish mythology style, Berserkers= Norse mythos etc.

It was a dual question with the last bit being about starting cash, but you sorta answered that already.

Konsaki

Thanks for the quick feedback.

And...

I agree that for the gang name, we should probably start by "selecting" the size and area of our turf. This is what we had done with the 410 Crash game... and that was how we came up with that name. I'm personally not THAT familiar with Seattle's geography, but I can try to scout out for some turf. But as it was stated, getting gang colors and name in game might also be a fun and interesting approach.

As for my ganger, I've ended up with a mundane, ridiculously thick and strong ork I've started on the background and it should be up soon.

Beside writing a background for each of the PCs, I think it would be a good thing to also have in common a sort of "list of questions", like Bull's 50s... or something of the kind. That way, we can all connect our characters on some points.

I'm also quite keen on the "Takes" section we had in 410 Crash (and now Hitting Bottom).

Room for all those things questions, etc, will be on the now-much-refined, but very similar, wiki character sheets.

Ok.. first "Turf Proposals" from me.

Honestly I think a lot of the reasoning WR1 used back in the 410Crash game could apply here as well. Two separate options in bright girlie colours (Sorry it's what was in my palette at the time)

Gang Turf

Could easily fill in territory around there.. lots of good access in and out of either location...

I think the "Takes" are a definite necessity once players get established and what not. I got a big ass kick out of it in the 410 Game. Gave a good starting off point when jumping in on RP with everyone else. Would also be cool if we are an amalgamation of all the fallen gangs.

I'll try to set up the Wiki tonight... unless Sparky's already started.

Character is pretty much fleshed out, just need to finalize a bit more spending and some throw away stuff. Good fighter, loose morals, general bitch. Good times indeed.

Adamu - I'm fine with an old school Gator Totem. Write up an SR 4 version and PM it to me for review.

I do not like the croc/man-beast as an actual organic thing. I'm leaning more towards it being a spirit of some kind, possibly one encountered only in the astral, perhaps a changling, maybe even a free spirit.

But I don't want to get too far out with a 'mutation in the Barrens' thing, it's just a little too much out there for a gang campaign in my opinion. So to summarize, ok with the croc/man-beast as teacher, just as long as it's something other than a simple straight up mutation.

Will this character be able to function socially within the gang? After all, he stole food from his siblings to the point where all but one starved to death. Seems a bit anti-social to me. Thoughts on this? Note I'm not shooting him down, just looking for clarification/detail. I don't mind him being a nasty character, even within/to his fellow gangers. Just as long as he's not crossing the line to actually being a threat to them. See previous post for my general idea of where the proverbial line is.

Spending days in the sewers? Isn't that kind of extreme, even for a Gator shaman? Although I suppose it is possible, perhaps the sewers underneath the main gang hideout? Interesting possibilities there that could be worth exploring.

Other than that, I like him. He definitely fits the hardbitten, nasty and brutal nature of the streets. And he certainly sounds like an old school Gator shaman, right down to the 'loves to eat but freaking lazy' thing. I like how you described gang life as 'the good life' solely because he gets to beat up those weaker than himself and there's always something to eat. Very Gatorish.

Re Mister Juan's comments: Selecting turf is an excellent place to start, as you and Cedric pointed out. Start looking people. The GM Staff is currently working on the surrounding gangs, and I'm working on a more complete version of the story to help you all have a more complete picture of the current situation.

An ork ganger now Mister Juan? I can never predict your characters. You truly are all over the place. Aw, and I really liked your portrayal of the naive mascot ganger from the 410 Crash.

I will write up a standardized background for everyone to fill out, but it won't be anywhere NEAR as extensive as LITS. It'll probably be just a modified 20 questions, focused more on character's perception of gang life.

There will definitely be a 'takes' section where each ganger describes their perception of the other gangers, which is why I want concepts here, so you can start thinking about how your character relates to all the other characters.

Quick Turf Note - Don't forget to pick a place where you're around other stuff you actually want to expand to.

As a quick observation, if you look at suggestion 1, there's plenty of room to expand, except there's nothing but open area to expand to. You might want to consider taking a place more in the 'thick of things' as it were. Because in turf 1, you'll have that entire area, except there's nowhere else to really go from there. That's just my quick thought after looking at it.

Also, I would point out that if you read the Seattle City Books, the area between highway 202 on the East, NE 124th St in the North, the river on the West, and Leary Way in the South is probably Touristville. So almost by definition, you'd have to be on the east side of highway 202 to be in the actual Barrens area.

Hehe some of us don't have ALL the books I just threw that up there as a starting off point and a quick and dirty. I'm pretty sure that there are much better locations and I'll keep looking

WinterRat beat me to the Touristville comment...

Next question is, if we determine that we are not IN but NEAR Touristville, is that a good or bad thing?

On one hand, MUCH greater commercial (drugs/prostitution)/theft/robbery opportunities - money flow around there vastly higher than other parts of Barrens.

On the other hand, MUCH MUCH MUCH greater potential for trouble from Law Enforcement AND Organized Crime, ON TOP of fighting other gangs for that prime turf.

I think the cons outweigh the pros on that. Unless we do what the Yaks do - limit ourselves to "commercial" activities, while actually making ourselves valuable to Law Enforcement by policing our own turn from victim-crimes.

All in all though, I think a more remote, deeper-in-the-Z-zone locale would be better for the campaign feel I am getting from the GMs.

Just my two cents.

(But techinically hopeless adamu still has his hat off to Vegas for even knowing how to do that fancy map stuff!!!)

Super-oops - cross post that looks like I am ragging on an idea that was already withdrawn....


NOT what I meant to do - sorry...

OK for those of us who don't seem to have the detailed info that others do via books and what not...

Are there resources out there that have a better "feel" for Redmond's layout in 2070, more specifically the nastier Z zones and the like.

While yes I suppose being close to Touristville does have lots of cons, like Adamu said, it might make sense to be within relative easy distance from it for the more nefarious plans/plots of the gang.