As the title suggests, are the reaction and dodge bonuses for MBW per level, like the IP bonus? Or are those bonuses a one-off bonus, with just the IP per level?

cheers!

I believe it's cumulative.

All the bonuses are per level.

"The move-by-wire system confers a bonus of <LIST OF BONUSES> per point of rating."

Bye
Thanee

A follow up question - is max reaction for all core races 9? (or 10 with that max attribute boosting quality). If so, and if you're planning on taking high level movebywire, or if you decide to add reaction enhancers to it - you would not want a high natural reaction attribute - maybe 3? - because otherwise you'll end up with redundant reaction points? That sound right?

It's a very metagame consideration, but yes.

You could easily find justification IC for the slow kid to want to have that kind of 'ware.

Min/Max: REA=1 natural +6 MBWIII + 2 Reaction Enhancers=9

Well, you can always find *some* justification. (And if not: escaped experimental supersoldier!)

I was just concerned movebywire was obviously far far better than wired reflexes, but in some ways it is overly good - in many cases you dont need all that speed. Which keeps wired a real option, esp as it's so cheap.

Eh, M-b-W got a bit watered down even. I remember the time where it did cost a cool mil and took .. what, 7 Essence or something? And also allowed you to take a full action outside of TIME just because.

And you also needed to nearly have a lobotomy every 3 months to keep away the seizures *g*

Man i miss the time where power fucked you up. (Only drugs and the adrenal pump still have some negative effects it seems, sigh)

But yeah. Having a M-b-W 1 for Combatants who are not exclusively specialized in murdering is very good. Just a bit more cash than Wired Reflexes, but great side-boni (Low Level Skillwires, some dodge...) My Rigger had one for example, just to keep up when shit went down.

Move-by-wire used to be almost exclusively cyberzombie territory. The high Essence cost, high Nuyen cost, and extremely serious drawbacks kept it out of most PC hands without out-and-out banning it for them (which I always thought was a clever way to do it).

In a way, it still is a good deal for cyberzombies. Their natural and augmented maximums are raised by their negative Essence, so a cyberzombie with MBW: 3 and reaction enhancers: 3 can often get the full effect from them.

ah right yeah so good for a cyberzombie then

That is right, yes. Because the bonus to Reaction is so high, you would just waste some of it with a high natural Reaction.

There is, of course, also the other way, where you boost your maximum natural Reaction to 8 (via Quality and Genetech).

Bye
Thanee

oh yeah genetic optimistation - i never noticed that before - how awesome!

MBW is better than WR, but still takes a big whack out of your essence. With the skillwires and (Vehicular) Dodge bonus it is still pretty much the go-to IP booster of choice for riggers.

Fortunately you are limited to MBW 2 (using Restricted Gear) in CharGen ...

Human 1/6(9)
Genetic Optimization
Exceptional Attribute
SURGE I (Metagenetic Improvement)

End: 2/9(13)

Neither MBW nor WR are the go-to IP booster for riggers. Unless they drive anything with their hands, they never use their physical IPs for their job. They use Matrix initiative for nearly any operation. The skillwires are nice but you can get them cheaper as - you know - skillwires. You cannot get that kind of dodge bonus anywhere else as a mundane, but that alone is hardly a selling point for riggers IMHO. To use the full bonus of MBW 3 you would need Dodge 5 or 6 (not sure how you are supposed to round in that case).

Yep, SURGE is another option to get that natural attribute max rating higher.

Bye
Thanee

6, you round down for skills.

Which honestly makes the aptitude quality silly. 18 BP or 48 karma for a +1 bonus to a skill. Why bother. Would be (slightly) different if it meant that your adept could get another +1 on top of that.

You are right. But if someone needs to have Skill 7 written on his character sheet....

That's what cheating is for
I mean, who has a gamemaster who actually checks what you're writing on your sheet.

*Raises Hand* Mine checks occasionally. Mostly at character creation to verify the concept/build execution.

I assumed that was a given. Write things down after creation, obviously

*Gasp* But, But, But... that would be cheating !!!!!

For all of the complaints about hyperspecialists, this is how Shadowrun handles them, and I think it is fairly elegant. They let you reach certain hard caps, and at character creation if you want to, but they make you pay disproportionately for those last few points.

On the other hand, it is fairly easy to boost skills and Attributes using technology and magic, but again, that's (in my opinion) intentional - magic and technology are supposed to be both "shortcuts" for ordinary Joes, and a way for more capable people to become superhuman.


One other drastic way to raise your Reaction - become a ghoul. I say drastic, because it costs you both a point of Essence and the ability to get genetic optimization (geneware doesn't work on infected).

It's actually a very good modification: for the cost of R1 Muscle Replacement you get +4 Body, +2 Reaction, +3 Strength, +2 Willpower, and only a -2 Charisma and -1 Logic? Not including Powers?

While, statistically, you're correct sir...I highly doubt you'll find very many sams going out looking to be infected just because it's a pretty sweet deal stat-wise.

Also, on a slightly more serious note, that one street-sam without cybereyes is going to have a rough couple of days before he gets them installed.

~R~

His day is going to get really bad & really rough time when he realizes he can't turn off the dual-natured bit and pisses off an astral mage or spirit (say hello to my little friend... I call it manabolt... too bad you can't reach my astral form out of reach above you). I'd argue a lot of the ghouls 'benefit' is magical in nature and not just a mundane augmentation... hence why it needs continued flesh sacrifice to keep it powered.


Also to point it out to the OP... dwarves have lower natural reaction at 5(7) and they're a prime candidate for genetic optimization to bring it back to 6(9) (even natural max scores result in 2 point increases in augmented max... while odd ones only get 1 for 1).


Just as a general comment, that's a major criticism of prior editions of SR... that there were a lot of GM only toys that players could never concievably use because they were only good for one shot opposition (like MbW). Also a lot of it reflected the whole 10million dollar man angle in terms of cost of the augmentations... which begs the question if you actually had 10million dollars are you going to augment yourself to the limits or retire on a permanent high lifestyle. SR4 at least did an awful lot to bring a lot of these toys to the players at large.

That said. I don't think the problem is that MbW is too good... it ends up being your central essence cost if you use it. It's more that wired is so bad (excepting it's sheer cheapness). Lets face it... a ganger with second hand wired isn't all that far a reach under SR4 where it would be borderline in SR3 given costs. Really if you buy up your natural base... rating 2 is pretty damn good out the gates... or even as a later in-game upgrade to wired2 once you have some cash saved up... (if I need a 4th pass... generally I just spend a point of edge).

For ghouls, keep in mind that they start out with only one point of Magic, and pretty much any augmentation they get will get rid of their dual nature, leaving them with only their enhanced senses and natural weapons. Which is a good thing, because being dual-natured and non-awakened is a very bad thing.

I see wired: 1 being something you would see on the higher-end gangers. Even for wired: 2, the availability will probably be more of a limiting factor than the price. Move-by-Wire: 2 is a good purchase for starting shadowrunners, and it is only 1,000 more than wired: 2 (alphaware) and reaction enhancers: 2, which has the same Essence cost. The big difference is the addition of built-in skillwires and that +2 dodge bonus, and the downside is that you need to take Restricted Gear to get it.

That doesn't strike me as correct Glyph. Ruleswise I suspect you're right... I think I recall something about it in Running Wild when they differentiated the power types a bit better. It's been a while since I've looked at that source.

Even cyberzombies have a magical score of zero but are still dual natured.

It strikes me very much has having your cake and eating it too. Yet one more reason to make sure that bounties on ghouls are paid out in any game I'm in... and yet another reason to hate Runner's Companion as anything other than a GM resource.

Amen to that, Falconer!

Actually, cyberzombies have a Magic Attribute of 1 that cannot be raised, but which is all but impossible to lower.

Ghouls are a bit overpowered, but at least the rules for them are fairly clear. It is trying to make sense of the contradictory and poorly worded rules for variable-Essence undead and Magic loss, or the vague rules for free spirit Attributes, that make some of the advanced options in Runner's Companion a headache for me. But things like infected and shapeshifters can easily be disallowed as PCs by the GM.

There's plenty that's a headache in Runner's companion. We restricted our campaign to SR4A core races only for balance reasons (5 races is plenty).

whoops ... you replied during mine lol

I've not had a problem with understanding them. I've also not really seen people try to bring them in-game, though...

Ah, but 'understanding' is not the same as 'make sense of', here.

Magic!

Hehehe. I more meant that if the rules clearly showed that a given PC/400BP character type got 20 in all stats and skills… that wouldn't 'make sense', however intelligible the rules were.