I'm going to be running my first game in a week or so, and my group will be four or five teenage boys with minimal rpg experience and no Shadowrun experience. I have a set of street level characters that I think would be fun for them to play. However, I think they would want there first game (and possibly only, a couple are supposed to be moving soon after) to be at a much higher level of powe. I'm just not sure how to do it.

I know that starting with the High Life rules is a good option. What I don't know is how to take the characters from that point to being truly veteran runners. I would appreciate tips on this, and possibly on running a game for a group of this kind of make up.

Well, to start with you could have them go into a seedy bar in the barrens, watch the strippers, get in a brawl, be the last ones standing (virtually certain), impress the employer with their badassness, then have a mission where they basically get to mow down a gang with automatic weapons, maybe a car chase if any of them have decent driving skills, that sort of thing. Make it feel like Michael Bay directed the run.

That'd be my first thought.

I would advise (given their newness to RPG) give them some gang related runs etc to roll with. Have them as "low level" runners (starting characters) doing low profile jobs (towhit working for one gang or another in a mini gang war, use some Sons of Anarchy for inspiration and reference if you like).

Keep the system use simple as possible, but let them play within the system. They have a decker? Cool. Let their targets have non-hosted Devices (straight up DRx2) which can be decked and let this be known. Let them learn about PANs and fake SINs at the first meet or two where they can be caught out but it won't matter as much. Let a mage do Astral stuff against weaker threats (if any, magic is RARE) to get used to his dice pools and options as a charater. Give them some simple objectives with the option for stealth or a fight and let them have an early success (unless they REALLY mess something up). If they look like they're going to do something that'd be dumb in SR advise them as such, give them a few other options openly. Help them get their 'WIN' for run one.

Try and do a "what did we learn" after each session so you know they're understanding systems and options. Make people aware of other options in play too.

Then you can bring in the better employers, corporate connections, Hosts, security Spiders, Spirits, opfor mages and shaman, the threats of running wireless, pro security teams, augmented adversaries and so forth. They can start testing themselves know they know sme of what they're doing and they get to see what opposition feels like.

Once they get that you ca bring in the rest of the Sixth World.

pyrotechnical displays.
hot mod cars.
chainswaw weapons.
shiney chrome.
shootout between gandalf the grey and the terminator T-800

First thing I though of after reading this is to somehow rename this from, "Food Fight," to something that fits the scene better...

Pity you didn't suggest a brothel, could have gone with, "Ho Down."

NPC hackers avoids all sorts of problem.

Guns and magic.

And Mr. Roger watching the fight on the background.

I think I'd actually recommend a different approach to the ones above.

Combat tends to be the most rules intensive and fiddly part of the game, so new players get more effective control of the game (and a better handle on the rules they're being exposed to) by doing a skills heavy run to start with. Charging a covert ops adept, a mage, a decker and a face with delivering a briefcase from point A to point B without being observed will generate a lot more thinking and skill rolls than asking players to shoot up the first thing in front of them.

Another trick I use with new players is giving them a 'one-time-only quicksave' at the start of the run. I couple this with a pretty nasty fight (think TPK) near the end of the run. During their second pass through the PCs are generally much smarter about avoiding the fight or getting the drop on the bad guys. This setup is an effective way to train the players to play the Shadowrun I like to GM: a version of the game with skill tests and non-linear thinking in the forefront and combat on the side.

who?

That sounds like good advice. I may do that. I think there may be a small issue with the ones who have played dogs, they have played heavy combat focused d&d. And they all are heavy League of Legends players. I feel like combat will be a major draw for them. I plan on asking about it if I can get somewhere with internet.

Just running combat for a group like that is a trap - it makes it harder to see the many advantages tabletop games have to offer over other styles of game.

I think this is who was being referenced. I could be wrong.

Given that the computer rules in every single version of SR have been awful I really don't see how having someone play a guy who will end up having a solo game with you while you wrestle with the steaming mess of the rules while the other kids play xbox for hours will be more fun than a huge shootout.

As suggested above, I think if you let the decker run against largely unguarded opposition with the SR5 rules then you can get interesting in-game results pretty quickly and with minimal rule overhead. This is especially true if you pre-select the configuration of the deck. I think that's the biggest, tricky, player participation component of decking.

There are holes in the decking system, but I think they have a lot more to do with big inconsistencies between how SR5 computers work and how basic logic dictates they would be used. However, these holes aren't always readily visible to new players. And while there are many faults in these rules, erecting boring mini-game like barriers to hackers aren't one of them.

Yes, DMiller is correct. That's the guy I was referencing. The reason is this.

Just try to avoid your first game ending up like this.

So, one of the guys says he likes to play engineer style characters, and I instantly though drone rigger. Unfortunately, everything attached to that is giving me a splitting migraine.

He has a GMC Bulldog, for drone storage and appropriate tools. He has an occular drone, because each character has some sort of strange quirk (no, none of them are even really optimized, I think the highest dp is 12, and that's for unarmed). He also has a Horizon Flying Eye. I'm trying to take him into a more surveillance style role rather than a combat focused one. I do want some combat functionality, but I'm not sure where to take it.

I am also having trouble making sense of all the various rigger rules and gear in general. Do I need a full suite of autosofts for each drone? What about decker software and gear? Can I run that on a commlink/rcc combo, or do I need to invest in a deck? I normally have fairly decent comprehension skills, but for some reason this one is escaping me. If it matters, right now, he has 6/5 in pilot aircraft/groundcraft.

Have them watch Ghost In The Shell.

Once their young minds are blown, explain that both it and Shadowrun are Cyberpunk.

If that doesn't get their attention, nothing will. Everything afterwards is secondary, the sheer obsessive love of the universe and genre comes first.

~Umi

depending on power level, i'd say have them watch akira instead.

Why not both? Throw in every great film or series you can think of, if you have time.

~Umi

A few suggestions:

For grit: AD Police
For over the top pink Mohawk: Bubblegum crisis
For character flavor: The Crow (you are bad guys on this one)
For setting flavor: Johnny Mnemonic, Robocop (there can be only one), Escape from New York, Mad Max
For setting nausea: Running Man (the book, not the movie)

My personal favorite SR-style film is "Domino". No cyber or magic, but it has the feel down completely.

To get them to have the feel of what the setting is like, and what they're doing, I have a slightly growing list of things to watch The pilot fo Leverage, Johnny Mnemonic, the new Total Recall, the first two to three episodes for Person of Interest, and GitS (which I have never watched at all). I am always looking at adding more.

Also, I think I am starting to understand the rigger thing. I need autosofts for each drone, and the RCC, right? I need programs, many of them, but they will only work on the device they are bought for (lost the fourth edition rigger/hacker). What programs are really worth buying, and at what rating (i haven't even looked at the matrix yet. I don't plan on having too many opposing force deckers inplay, and none at all for the first handful of sessions. What are some good alternatives for rigger specific problems, and what is the best way to introduce the need for Electronic Warfare?

Finally, I'm handwaving most of the matrix stuff until I can get a better grasp of it, rigging, and magic. The group consists of an Ork unarmed fighter (also has FAgroup3), a dwarf face, the human rigger, and a troll sorcery adept. I need a fifth slot filled in case there are five players. I was thinking of an adept gunslinger, since the group doesn't have a really strong firearms user (ork is the best so far). Most of these characters are a combination of requested pc style and game style, so they aren't optimized nor really changeable from concept.

Oh, one more thing. I plan on making a npc to help out if need be, a kind of super support role, would this be best served as a mage?

Again, the advice is really helpful, thank you

HtH adept in most editions of SR is a trap option. It all sounds cool, but you tend to get shot a lot and mostly lay there and bleed. When you occasionally get to HtH range you do pitiful damage through the defenders armor and body, while the defenders keep shooting you because the rules suck.

I personally have quite different experiences with Unarmed adepts, at least in 4E. Properly built, they can dish out Assault Cannon level damage, without all the fuss of trying to get an Assault Cannon through security, and they can even do it at range if you want.

The value of an Unarmed adept is that they always have their "weapon" with them. Without dependence on gear of any sort, they can go absolutely anywhere with their lethality almost entirely undetectable. They aren't combat monster bruisers, they're highly lethal infiltrators and assassins.

Basically, if Street Sams are the "Warriors" of SR, then Unarmed Adepts are the "Rogues". A street sam's job is to be able to give (and take) more than their fair share of Dakka at range, controlling the flow of the fight by presenting an obvious high threat target for the enemies to shoot at while dishing out plenty of their own damage. In contrast, an Unarmed adept's job is high priority single target elimination, akin to a sniper - they're supposed to avoid direct combat, waiting for the right moment to strike, and when the opportunity presents itself catching the enemy by surprise with punches that can demolish cars.

If you try to play an unarmed adept as a berseker, you're doing it wrong. (Unless you build chiefly for defensiveness, maxing your Dodge pool and having solid soak, but at that point you're more of a melee sammie.)

~Umi

And with more panache.

Agreed...
The characters I have built with the HTH Philosophy were beasts. Some even capable of dishing out damage in the Double Digits with out too many problems.
A Throwing Adept Assassin (Had an Oni Ninja with this concept) is the best of both worlds, since you can cover ranges out to about 100 Meters with thrown Weapons (of Mundane Things if you are a Missile Master) and have some really potent up-front and personal Melee damage.

The problem is that the developers seem to terrified of adepts being good, so you can't buy the various pieces you need at the same time. For example, you get at most 6 points of magic. If you want to go fast you have just spent 5 of these, so then .5 for killing hands (so you can damage cars) and now you get +2 damage with critical strike. But since you bought a 6 in magic how many BPs did you spend for strength? How about agility and reaction? Not so much, eh?

Oh, and strength in SR is pretty useless other then for punching people. So characters that don't have the plan of "I run up and punch him" can spend those points on getting really good at not getting hit or hitting other people instead.

Oh, but you wanted to distance strike. That cost 2 points, so now you are going to have to drop your improved reflexes to +2. So now you can do almost the damage of a heavy pistol at short range, if you hit. Vs like buying a heavy pistol. Or an alpha.

It's a trap.

What do you mean by "go fast"? I assume you are referring to having Rank 3 Improved Reflexes (which is actually 4 Power Points, the costs were reduced in the errata), but Rank 3 is entirely unnecessary. Four IPs is nice, but it shouldn't be your highest priority at chargen. It's much more cost efficient to go with Rank 1 or Rank 2. And if you absolutely have to splurge on Rank 3, you can always use an Adept Way discount to drop the price by a full point.


With the above cost savings, you should easily be able to max out your Critical Strike for +6 DV, and you can even spring for various Improved Physical Attributes.


Succeeding with a melee character is all about positioning. Strength improves your DV, but it also improves your Running, Climbing and Swimming skills, which in turn improves your ability to properly position yourself. A massive Troll who can punch through walls is going to be a world class climber thanks to his mondo strength stat. If you can't see the potential in being able to climb a building like a spider or sprint twice as fast as the next guy, you're probably not cut out for the shadows.


The problem is that you're going about raising your DV the wrong way. Boosting Strength is literally the least efficient way to boost your Unarmed damage. Along with the aforementioned maxing out of Critical Strike, you should also be investing in the Martial Art of your choice which offers a DV bonus. Boxing is great, because you can double up on the bonus for +2 DV.

So a Strength 1 character with Critical Strike Rank 6 and Boxing Rank 2 is throwing 9DV per punch, which is on par with two shots from a heavy pistol in the same IP (except that the enemy doesn't get to roll twice for dodging and soaking, which pushes things in your favor slightly).

Go from there to an Ork or Troll with mid-range Strength of 7 and now you're hitting for 12DV in a single blow, easily matching the damage of a double tap with an Ares Alpha.

In fact, at this point your fist has now surpassed the damage of a Panther XXL. Yeah, you only get to swing once per IP, but most assault cannons are SS anyway unless you mod them (and there's an entire camp of GMs who believe assault cannons are incompatable with the Firing Selection Change mod). Oh, and you can do this damage at any time, in any place, passing through the tightest security, because instead of having to lug around a giant fragging cannon, you just hit things with your fist hard enough to explode cars.

So yeah, maybe you can sneak your heavy pistol into a secure area, or if you're really lucky an Ares Alpha. But the Adept is gonna waltz in unarmed, easy as pie, and easily outdamage you. And even if they have to bypass security for some reason? They can rely on their great Strength to help them climb, run, and swim across obstacles while you sit back and twiddle your thumbs because you made Strength your dump stat and you have no points in Athletics.


At best it's a "newb trap", in that you actually have to know what you're doing when building a character like this and know how to properly make use of its strengths while miminizing its weaknesses. Played properly, an Unarmed adept can be devastatingly effective - they just have a learning curve.

~Umi

It does indeed have a learning curve. But you CAN make a pretty awesome Adept for Thrown, Armed or Unarmed combat.

You do it like I did with a Jaguar Shapeshift Adept I made once, you just worry about not getting hit. Then you tackle the opposition down and kill them while grappling.
Then my GM found my kriptonite, winged or tracked drones...

Yeah, our knife nut character hasn't come up against rotor drones yet but I hope I'm there when he does... his expression will be priceless.

That is what briefcase rockets are for.

Because if you can't sneak a heavy pistol past security you can easily smuggle an anti-aircraft missile? No, this is where a mage build shows why it's magicrun.

A) If there is enough security to detect hidden weapons, there could just as easily and cheaply be detectors for magic, eg. a small spirit assensing everyone who passes through a doorway (Awakened ==> special attention), or a ward. The same problem exists for magicians as exists for street sams.

B) While walking into someplace with no observable weapon is an advantage, being invulnerable to background count is also an advantage. How does the adept stack up when she loses two or three power points? Every profession has its kryptonite, and kryptonite is dirt cheap in the Sixth World.

Magicrun.

You don't need AA indoors...

This thread is exactly what I needed. I'm a seasoned D&D DM, but have virtually NO Shadowrun tabletop experience (I've played the SNES game when I was a kid, and the new sequel's "Dead Man's Switch" campaign), but find it to be an ideal world to campaign in. My kids (10 and 14) will, of course, need to be introduced in a series of milk-runs. For this reason, they're relatively overpowered (I ran some simulated battles during my writing to be sure) and their lifestyle is special. I have them as a pair of mechanics who work at a garage that is a front for a vehicle/drone grey-market supplier. As a twist, their main source of legal income is maintenance of Lone star vehicles.

The campaign setting will be in CalFree, mostly because there is enough canon information about my hometown (Sacramento) to be a good starting point, but not so much that I can't improvise what I need to balance out their relative overpower when needed. Also, the kids like the run-n-gun lifestyle endemic to Borderlands2 and its vehicle-intensive gameplay. I figure water wars in the central valley meets that easily, I have a good knowledge of the basic terrain (I lived in Sacramento for the first 25 years of my life), and the kids feel a connection with Sac, having been born there. I also like the flexibility found in such a small area; The Crescent is worlds apart from Big Sur and LA (I know, LA is technically PCC now).

The characters are twin Orks, but one never goblinized, so we have genetic twins with matching auras, but one is Ork and one is Human. The human is a dronomancer, and the ork is an adept with a few shaman abilities (severely limited shaman abilities). His totem is one of revenge, the story being their adoptive father (an Elf Decker turned school teacher) gets killed when the human's technomancer abilities become apparent on a school field-trip to Sutter's Fort and they're forced to flee Sac. I plan to use this event as their "training run" to teach them basic hacking, fistfighting, and driving challenges.

For anyone who wants to take advantage of my writing efforts, a basic outline of my ideas for Sacramento can be found https://www.facebook.com/groups/1393585707578249/

I'm glad my topic brought insight to some one else as well. Brief update, the game got postponed because the boys were to busy playing League of Legends to have their parents call me, and my brother forgot that he had an all weekend scout event. We will try to get a Skype call going to hash out the rest of the details. I will probably post the characters I made for them to get opinions on them (note, they are not built for optimization). I also have a slew of conversion questions, but I shall post those in a different thread.