Grimtooth
Nov 15 2004, 04:42 PM
I have a troll who wants to make some changes to his Superwarhawk.
This is probably a question for Raygun, but is the warhawk like the Ruger Blackhawk or the Redhawk?
I figure since it is SS it is closer to a Blackhawk.
So for his mods.
Custom grip.
Increased Mag capacity - is this possible? New stronger cylinder holding 7 rounds instread of 6.
Modify Firing mode - Change form single action to double action.
Shortened barrel - added concealability.
Does this make sense?
Are these mods possible/feasible?
Ol' Scratch
Nov 15 2004, 04:47 PM
The Increased Magazine and Firing Mode are design options, not customization options, so that requires designing a completely new weapon. Barrel Reduction isn't available to Heavy Pistols. You can have a longer or shorter barrel, but the change isn't enough to warrant any appreciable effects as far as the mechanics go.
Just build one from scratch based upon your goal and get it okayed.
mintcar
Nov 15 2004, 04:47 PM
What makes you think itīs a single action revolver?
Grimtooth
Nov 15 2004, 04:49 PM
The SS firing mode makes me think its single action.
Yeah maybe i have to just design one and see if my GM approves.
hyzmarca
Nov 15 2004, 05:12 PM
The SS firing mode does suggest single action. But, it may just be the fat that the rules are sorely lacking when it comes to manual actions of all types.
If you're going to customize make a revolver, make a stylish 10M SA/BF revolver.
mintcar
Nov 15 2004, 05:47 PM
Is there double action revolvers that can be fired like in semi-auto? Donīt you need an automatic for that? I donīt think the rules makes any distinction between single and double action revolvers.
Moon-Hawk
Nov 15 2004, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
BF revolver. |
Huh? Wha?
Can someone explain to me how that would work?
Dashifen
Nov 15 2004, 06:02 PM
You have 6 shots in a cylinder, you pull the trigger and three of them are fired

. Probably would involve some nifty computer circuitry to control the hammer and the rotation of the cylinder but it coudl be done. Pack a little extra punch for when you need it and probably surprise the hell out of the guy who thinks his SA heavy pistol is going to beat your revolver
lorthazar
Nov 15 2004, 06:06 PM
If I wanted three rounds out of my revover I would simply 'fan the hammer'. If I was really good I could get all six in a simple action. Of course then i would be out of ammon and if my target lived he would be pumping me full of glaser rounds.
Grimtooth
Nov 15 2004, 06:17 PM
I'm trying to stick to the more realistic side of things.
Cause there are Airweight double action revolvers chambered in 357 that have 8 round cylinders.
I figure a double action S&W 500 with a modified to a 7 round cylinder.
hyzmarca
Nov 15 2004, 06:54 PM
Semi-auto revolvers exist now, they're just rare because they're 99% pointless. However, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to modify a semi-auto revolver's action for burst fire. Silly, certainly, but defiently cool. Still, it is best to have 7 shots, that way you have one left for yourself when the two bursts miss.
I haven't boticed anything in the CC that prohibits BF or FA revolvers.
KarmaInferno
Nov 15 2004, 06:56 PM
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Nov 15 2004, 06:02 PM) |
You have 6 shots in a cylinder, you pull the trigger and three of them are fired . Probably would involve some nifty computer circuitry to control the hammer and the rotation of the cylinder but it coudl be done. Pack a little extra punch for when you need it and probably surprise the hell out of the guy who thinks his SA heavy pistol is going to beat your revolver |
Er, you'd have to install a motorized cocking mechanism then to fire the second and third bullet?
Because in a double action revolver the thing that pulls the hammer back is your finger via pulling the trigger. If you're only pulling the trigger one time, what is pulling the hammer back for the second and third shots?
There is the Mateba revolver, which is a odd duck that has an automatic's slide action grafted onto a revolver so every other shot is semi-auto. I suppose you could modify those to get a two-round burst.
QUOTE |
If I wanted three rounds out of my revover I would simply 'fan the hammer'. |
Heh, good luck hitting anything that way - there's no evidence that the "fan the hammer" technique has ever worked to any degree of effectiveness outside of the movies.
-karma
Grimtooth
Nov 15 2004, 07:26 PM
Don't the competition Cowboy action shooters use the "fan the hammer" method to get speed records?
Could've sworn i saw a guy using a peacemaker fan the hammer to draw and fire.
Grimtooth
Nov 15 2004, 07:44 PM
S&W 500This was what i had in mind
Only modified with a 7 round cylinder
KarmaInferno
Nov 15 2004, 08:49 PM
QUOTE (Grimtooth) |
Don't the competition Cowboy action shooters use the "fan the hammer" method to get speed records?
Could've sworn i saw a guy using a peacemaker fan the hammer to draw and fire. |
"Fanning the hammer" results in your aim bobbling up and down. Plus you can't use the sights to aim. I am fairly certain in a competition you'd want to HIT the targets, not just send a lot of lead in the air.
The only time you see fanning is in old cowboy movies where they're not really even aiming, just shooting from the hip. It's done cos it looks cool, not because it's effective.
-karma
Dashifen
Nov 15 2004, 09:00 PM
QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
[QUOTE=Dashifen,Nov 15 2004, 06:02 PM] Probably would involve some nifty computer circuitry to control the hammer and the rotation of the cylinder but it coudl be done. [/QUOTE] Er, you'd have to install a motorized cocking mechanism then to fire the second and third bullet? [/quote] |
Sure. I intended that the computer circuitry that times the hammer and rotation could also handle the cocking mechanism of the hammer. Depending on how you want to do it, maybe when the revolver is set to BF the rotation of the barrel also cocks the hammer. Describe the mechanism as you see fit, I was just throwing out a possibility as proof of concept.
Wounded Ronin
Nov 15 2004, 09:01 PM
Didn't Matever make some kind of automatic revolver?
Austere Emancipator
Nov 15 2004, 09:01 PM
People who practice shooting targets at very short ranges enough to take part in shooting competitions can usually manage to hit the targets even while fanning. The competitions where you might see it used are not based on tactical situations, however, and the targets will be immobile and, like I said, very close. Doing it in a combat situation would be totally useless -- in practice, you'd have a very slow-RoF, low-power machine gun with a 6-round capacity doing suppressive fire.
KarmaInferno already mentioned the Mateba semi-automatic revolver.
Here's one basic site I found with a quick Googling.
Wounded Ronin
Nov 15 2004, 09:04 PM
Cowboys in movies sometimes fan. Maybe that's why they keep missing and shooting your hat off instead.
Dashifen
Nov 15 2004, 10:38 PM
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
Cowboys in movies sometimes fan. Maybe that's why they keep missing and shooting your hat off instead. |
<john_wayne>They ain't missin' when they shoot yer hat of, pilgrim</john_wayne>
Shadow
Nov 15 2004, 11:08 PM
That was one ugly pistol.
My advice, just build your own, give it a 7 or 8 round cylinder and call it a day.
DrJest
Nov 15 2004, 11:44 PM
QUOTE |
The only time you see fanning is in old cowboy movies where they're not really even aiming, just shooting from the hip. It's done cos it looks cool, not because it's effective. |
Fanning had two purposes. First, to put a whole bunch of lead in the air, like suppressive fire on a smaller scale. It wasn't going to hit anything, but it made your opponents keep their heads down. Second, to belch out a pretty significant cloud of smoke to make targeting you harder (and you'd be surprised at how MUCH smoke).
At the other end of the spectrum... As a child I used to watch the Paul Daniels Magic Show a lot. Daniels used to have a wide variety of special guests on (I still remember the "riverboat gambler" - a tourist attraction riverboat, that is - who could shuffle the deck once and deal any hand you liked). One of these was a professional trick shooter. Because of the confines of the studio, he did his tricks by bursting balloons with the wad that fires out of a blank (I'm sure Raygun or similar could explain how that works). The culmination of his act was to burst two balloons from a slick draw so fast that it sounded like he'd fired only the once - in fact they had to run the film in slow motion for you to see how it worked. He definitely fanned the second shot; I
think what he did was draw and shoot (you all know how the quick-draw works, right?) then hold down the trigger and fan the second shot. Bloody impressive, even if it was at close range (it's a long time ago, but I think it was about 8-10 feet).
Incidentally, he was also the source of a fantastic piece of trivia. At that time (which would have been in the early 80's) the fastest gun in Hollywood was - the comedian Jerry Lewis. Go figure
Da9iel
Nov 15 2004, 11:49 PM
So would a bf/fa revolver behave just like a small gatling gun?
DrJest
Nov 15 2004, 11:51 PM
Oh God... any minute now we're going to see the Gatling Pistol from Deadlands...
Raygun
Nov 16 2004, 12:57 AM
QUOTE (Grimtooth) |
I have a troll who wants to make some changes to his Superwarhawk.
This is probably a question for Raygun, but is the warhawk like the Ruger Blackhawk or the Redhawk?
I figure since it is SS it is closer to a Blackhawk.
So for his mods. Custom grip.
Increased Mag capacity - is this possible? New stronger cylinder holding 7 rounds instread of 6.
Modify Firing mode - Change form single action to double action.
Shortened barrel - added concealability.
Does this make sense? Are these mods possible/feasible? |
I consider the Super Warhawk to be more like the Super Blackhawk because of the single action trigger, though with a more modern grip frame.
The +1 cylinder probably isn't going to happen as these large frame revolvers are just about near their max cylinder capacity when they're made. They can usually accept a slightly larger cartridge (say .454 to .475; Ruger's Super Redhawk is chambered for both .454 Casull and .480 Ruger, but the case rims of the .480 are within a couple hundredths of actually touching each other), but aren't big enough to add another chamber entirely. There are exceptions to the rule (for example, S&W's K-frame model 686 takes 6 rounds of .357 mag and the 686P takes 7 rounds in the same frame, while the larger N-frame 627 can take 8 rounds).
QUOTE (mintcar) |
Is there double action revolvers that can be fired like in semi-auto? Donīt you need an automatic for that? I donīt think the rules makes any distinction between single and double action revolvers. |
The Taurus Multi-6 is an SA revolver, from what I hear. There's precidence in canon for you. Anyway, it makes perfect sense that single actions would be SS and double actions would be SA.
QUOTE (Moon Hawk) |
Can someone explain to me how that would work? |
Someone probably could, but that someone should also have to explain why one would want to do such a silly thing. They make semi-autos for a reason.
QUOTE (Grimtooth) |
S&W 500
This was what i had in mind
Only modified with a 7 round cylinder |
You'd need a bigger frame, then (hahahaha! well, for a troll... *sigh*). 7 rounds of .500 Mag aren't going to fit into that cylinder. Though 7 rounds of .44 Mag might.
Arethusa
Nov 16 2004, 01:41 AM
I'm just going to throw
this one out for fun.
Raygun
Nov 16 2004, 03:01 AM
DrJest
Nov 16 2004, 11:27 AM
Jesus... never have I been more happy I don't live in a country with bears...
Necro Tech
Nov 16 2004, 11:43 PM
Considering the world record for Fast draw is less than a quarter of a second.... and fanning three rounds in just over one at 10-12 feet. Still impresive even though live ammo is not used. With a .45? probably not.
kevyn668
Nov 17 2004, 12:31 AM
QUOTE |
Raygun Posted on Nov 15 2004, 08:57 PM
QUOTE | QUOTE | (mintcar)
Is there double action revolvers that can be fired like in semi-auto? Donīt you need an automatic for that? I donīt think the rules makes any distinction between single and double action revolvers. |
|
The Taurus Multi-6 is an SA revolver, from what I hear. There's precidence in canon for you. Anyway, it makes perfect sense that single actions would be SS and double actions would be SA.
|
If you want a good canon SA revolver, use the Cavalier Deputy. Its cheaper, has a larger capacity, and a better damage code than the Taurus. The Taurus does have a better conceal but also has to fire in SA mode when using "Heavy Pistol Ammo" and even that only gives it a DC of 7M. SA mode is a lousy 6L.

Might as well use harsh language in that case.
Ol' Scratch
Nov 17 2004, 12:42 AM
Did you just say "DC" in an attempt to evoke the hatred of d20? Where's my torch and pitchfork...
But I agree. The Cavalier Deputy (even if it has a retarded name) is a pretty cool revolver. I still like double-weilding a pair of Ruger Super Warhawks, though. Even though they're SS, they still only take a Simple Action to fire, so you can shoot one then the other and even get your Smartlink bonus (if any)... unlike firing two firearms simultaneously. Basically, doing so makes it a quasi-SA weapon with a better Ammo capacity, but costs you both of your hands.
kevyn668
Nov 17 2004, 01:06 AM
Heh. The D20 low blows were in another thread.
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