Greetings,

i've encountered a slight bit of annoyance with the thresholds for shape changing...

imagine, if you will, a troll (body 10) for some off reason wants to turn himself into a much smaller form, say, a cheetah (body 5)

said troll is a might bit irritated that he has a target number of 10 for the spell, but life sucks everywhere, so he doesn't raise too much fuss... then he gets to the threshold... now the annoyance begins

mr troll cant seem to figure out if he needs 10 successes (1/2 body + (current body - target body)) (5+(10-5))
or if he only needs one success (1/2 body +(target body - current body)) (5+(10-5))

i just need to know which formula is right
1/2 body + (current - target) = 10
1/2 body + (target - current) = 1

the real problem arises when that same troll tries to turn into a body 15 elephant
in which case, using the top formula he would have an easier time raising his body to that of the elephants than he would lowerring it to that of the cheetah

on the other hand, using the second formula he would have an easier time dumping his mass to become a smaller form

so, if anyone managed to read through that headache... help?

Defining
Target shape body Tb
Original shape Ob

I understood the formula to be
Tb/2 + ABS(OB-TB)

If that makes any sense to you and I am remembering right

Edward

I'm with Edward here.

The threshold is a function of the 1/2 target's body, + the degree of change.
So it's just as hard to shift up as to shift down.

I believe that is correct as well - the moral is you're supposed to shapechange into something close to your body mass...the difficulty rises in trying to increase or decrease your body mass.

Just cast Decrease Body on your target before you Shapechange/Transform them.

My problem with Shapechange is the fact that none of your equipment/clothing changes with you. That's quite a disadvantage to deter using it in spontaneous and public situations.

Really? I though that was the reason disposable clothing and/or Ally spirits were so popular with shapechaging mages...

The other spell to consider is Transform. Make it easy to beat the threshold and the troll is now a mindless beast wandering about aimlessly. Big and aimless or tiny and aimless, you can bet a magician knows how his spell works.

But I don't think it works as one Body minus the other Body, but as others have said as the degree of change.

I don't think the problem is 'when you do the shapechange' so much as 'when you undo it' as far as clothing goes.. disposable clothing won't help there, it's back where you were before