fair 'nuff. i was mainly aiming my response at DLN and Snow Fox, to be honest.

re: reverse discrimination, Kage skewed his facts. yes, there are more disadvantaged humans than disadvantaged orks--because there are more humans than orks. the percentage of the ork population who are disadvantaged is much, much higher than the percentage of humans who are disadvantaged.

and as far as human-oriented assistance programs, i'm pretty sure Kage's smoking crack. there are any number of grants, scholarships, basic skill programs, job-search networks, and the like funded by Humanis.

Apparently, you dislike reading. Human regression is a (rare) possibility in children of metahumans. Thus, orks came from humans (and still do rarely) and humans rarely come from orks.

Now, as to whether orks are still 'humans' is a matter of definition, since they are biologically equivalent. And the accepted definition is that they are a subspecies, genentically compatible but distinctly different from the other 4 subspecies of humanity.

Now, argue the sociological side all you want, but the biologist assessment is established, and will not be disproven by your rants.

Well, aside from amusement park and water park rides that haven't been enlarged for the troll crowd yet. And then there's all the roller coasters that effectively have 'no dwarves allowed' with their height requirement. On the plus side, dwarves tend to save money at buffets that have height based pricing guidelines...

you're right--it's not a coincidence. it proves that prejudice against orks and trolls still has a strong negative impact on their ability to succeed and advance in smoothie society, despite all the programs that support them. maybe there's solid reasoning for that prejudice, maybe there isn't--but your line of logic doesn't prove, or even suggest, anything either way.

But I would tell a person who was trying to compete with an ork or troll in weightlifting that they could not hope to compete and should understand their limitations.

As for the idea that a dog would not make a scientist, I think it is valid. the fact the dog cannot let you know what he wants is not proof he does not want it, just further reinforces the image. A great many trolls and orks are not terribly articulate either. If just speech is a requirment then you arem aking my case for me. Orks are just not capable of acting at the same level as people and to make them think otherwise, just to stroke some human guilt does them only a great disservice.

and by doing so, you'd be screwing a whole lot of humans out of their trophies, since humans in the 75kg class win about as often as their ork and troll competitors. of course, the real problem with your argument is that you're putting it in terms of competition--of us versus them--which means that anytime they succeed, then you have lost, in your eyes. you're choosing to view metahumans as the enemy, however much sugar you try and coat it with.

But I don't think Snow_Fox is a guy.

~J

well, isn't that true? haven't the vast, vast majority of Japanese citizens and Japan-based corporations shown a persistent bias against metahumans, to the point where Japan has the highest incidence of 'vanished' metahumans, according to Amnesty Int'l? to the point where, when one of their own CEOs was transformed into a 'changed one', Yamatetsu was forced to relocate their headquarters?

if you really want to make something meaningful out of your friend's memory, you could start by not using racist epithets like "trog". sucks for your friend, but he kinda proves the point i'm making: people shouldn't judge other people on the basis of what they're born as, be it Japanese or ork.

what's really sick and sad is how completely blind--blinkered, you could call it--most racists are to the lack of differentiation between metatypes. what separates an ork from a human? genetics? everybody has ork genes--only some of us haven't expressed them. intelligence? there are plenty of humans with far, far lower intelligence than the average ork. what it comes down to is that the only differentiation between the metatypes is their phenotype--what they look like. we learn all about phenotype purists in history class. the slaveowners of the old US are one example, but why pussyfoot around? let's just go ahead and throw down the Hitler card and watch all the neo-Nazis--oops, Humanis!--sputter about how this is different.

Fixed it for you.

Admin post: Do not edit someone's text when quoting them.

I'm not familiar with that particular word.

((Eoerin is the Sperenthiel word for a wise person or theologist, basically. Shame on you for not knowing Mr. Always Plays an Elf. Shame.))

I haven't seen it dozens of times, which is unfortunate, because I would have posted about it sooner.

We're discussing backstage exactly how this will be handled in the future. If you're like to give further feedback about it, please start a thread in the News / Bug Reports / etc forum.

Damn! You're right, I should have known.

Yeah, but the dumbest human, orc, troll, elf, and dwarf are all on the same level. Take a look around at the people you meet everyday and tell me which is more telling, the highest levels an individual might reach, or the lowest common denominator.

And frankly, They don't need to be smarter than Einstien. They simply need to be smarter than YOU. Which is what worries you, isn't it? I'm sure that, since you feel physically inadequate compared to metas, you desparately need to feel intellectually superior. You're acting like that the geek in high school who just found out the football player gets strait A's too. So Jimmy linebacker got better scores on his SAT than you? You gonna shoot up the school in your angst? Pathetic.

So just because someone states the well documented facts that orcs and trolls are stronger physically, but not mentally, they are angsty inadequate "geeks" who will shoot up schools? That is worse than any other racism I've read, you drek for brains metahuman apologist.

PS

No, you are right, people who point out there are differences between the metatypes are not "angsty, inadequate geeks". At least, not as a causal link. However, people who say

are.

here's the real deal. It's not the observation that there are differences between the metatypes that's the issue here. Arguing that is a straw man, a red herring. Of course there are differences. That doesn't mean that different metatypes should be given different opportunities.

For one, the statistical variation between individuals is greater than the statistical variation between metatypes. Even if you can prove that orcs are on average 10% less intelligent than humans (and I'm being generous, as we could compare studies all day and never come to a conclusion), that's not even a full standard deviation on IQ tests. Similarly, the range of strength is greater than the average difference between orcs and humans. The only case where the difference is of great significance is in comparing physical size and build of trolls against any other metatype.

This means that racial profiling doesn't deliver a meaningful analysis of an individuals capability. Even if some metatypes are less intelligent on average, any given member of that metatype is likely to display above average intelligence. You cannot know unless you test that person by the exact same standards, you cannot know unless you give them the chance to prove themselves.

But the far more important point, a point entirely independant of measurable results, is that we have no business trying to tell anyone, regardless of metatype, where they should focus their efforts. Even if an orc will have difficulties that a human wouldn't in a particular line (again, not provable, but I'm briefly conceding the point because it's not important to this argument), you have no right to try and dissuade them from their course of action. Metahumans are sentient, even if they aren't human, and have the same rights to self-sovereignity as any sentient.