Wakshaani
Jul 17 2007, 10:37 PM
Anyone have an idea about the number and location/ownership of teh Delta Clinics out there? I know that not all of the Big Ten have them and that some have two (Or maybe three!), and there might be one-two out there that aren't part of the Megas ... Tir na Nog supposedly has one, Maria Mercurial was done up at an exclusive, but that was before grades of cyberware were introduced. There's also some of teh best of teh best in Switzerland, which may or may not be Delta and may or may not being owned by certain Megas.
Anyone have concrete info?
Grinder
Jul 17 2007, 10:44 PM
SoE mentions that at least one is located in Oslo, Norway.
As for who owns how many: not every AAA (or even AA) has his own delta clinic.
bclements
Jul 17 2007, 11:15 PM
NeoNET has (or should have) Novatech's delta clinic that they inhereted from Fuchi out in the PCC somewhere.
Aku
Jul 17 2007, 11:28 PM
someone called for ancient history? quick,
To the Light!ahhh, it feels good to be able to use that again...
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 11:33 PM
QUOTE (Aku) |
someone called for ancient history? quick, To the Light!
ahhh, it feels good to be able to use that again... |
LOL
FrankTrollman
Jul 17 2007, 11:42 PM
The game is purposefully vague on where all the Delta clinics actually are. But considering that there are a dozen delta clinics that can also provide cybermancy, it's an easy bet that there are many more than a dozen delta clinics world wide.
Confirmed Delta Clinic corporate owners:
- NeoNET
- Ares
- Shiawase
- Universal Omnitech
- S-K
- Aztechnology
- MCT
-Frank
Aku
Jul 17 2007, 11:43 PM
easy answer: Theres a Delta clinic wherever the GM wants one, but it's gonna take a run or two in itself to get there and be let in to have any work done
Jérémie
Jul 18 2007, 12:05 AM
Delta clinics are much less rare in 2070. Before, there was about half a dozen of them. Right now, I'm guessing every major power has one, maybe some have two or three. Not all of them have cybermancy capability however.
Caine Hazen
Jul 18 2007, 02:03 AM
Mayhap the up and coming Augmentations book might shed some light on this subject?
Ancient History
Jul 18 2007, 02:53 AM
Augmentation will have more info.
Buster
Jul 18 2007, 03:23 AM
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jul 17 2007, 09:53 PM) |
Augmentation will have more info. |
Everyone stand back, Ancient History is going to say more. Something wise, maybe even witty... AH? AH?
Dammit I think he went back to sleep. Aku, I think you'll need to get the Light again.
Ancient History
Jul 18 2007, 04:07 AM
<snork> Zzzz
Lazerface
Jul 18 2007, 04:13 AM
FrankTrollman
Jul 18 2007, 04:42 AM
QUOTE |
Augmentation will have more info. |
Meh. Sort of. You're still looking at "There's also a number of other unspecified delta clinics - some of them may be important in your campaign."
-Frank
Fortune
Jul 18 2007, 06:27 AM
QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
You're still looking at "There's also a number of other unspecified delta clinics - some of them may be important in your campaign." |
But really, what more do you want? That leaves things open for GM discretion. We all know that (most of) the AAA Corps have them, and there are 'some' others out there, but how many there are, where they are, and how easy they are to find is going to vary depending on each GM's individual campaign.
fistandantilus4.0
Jul 18 2007, 06:49 AM
Correct me if I'm misremmebering, but I recall something about Villier's new partners allowing a lot more people in to the NeoNet Delta clinic. I recall something about him getting pissed when he found out one of his old Fuchi enemies (Nakatomi IIRC) had a few of his guys upgraded there, and he couldn't do jack about it. So there is possibly at least one you can get in to jsut for having the nuyen to do so.
FrankTrollman
Jul 18 2007, 06:50 AM
Heck, there are cybermancy clinics that work mercenary these days.
-Frank
Jack Kain
Jul 18 2007, 06:51 AM
If your runners somehow get the cash to actually have deltaware installed, I don't see a good reason to deny them.
Why do you need to go to a deltaware clinic?
Can't the ware in question be delivered to any major city?
Is installing deltaware that much more difficult then normal ware?
Even if it requires specialists. If your paying a couple million for deltaware I think the doctors can catch a flight.
Or the reverse and fly the PC out to have it instailed.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 18 2007, 09:50 AM
QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
Confirmed Delta Clinic corporate owners: |
Evo has one, too - in space.
Critias
Jul 18 2007, 09:58 AM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 18 2007, 01:42 AM) | Confirmed Delta Clinic corporate owners: |
Evo has one, too - in space.
|
No, no, no. You have to say it: in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!
Eryk the Red
Jul 18 2007, 01:18 PM
Kain, the reason you need a deltaware clinic is not merely the specialised doctors, but also simply the right equipment. You can't install deltaware in an alley with a needle and string. You need larger devices. You need the 'ware to be tailored to your body a bit (I can only assume that's part of how it's less invasive). And, really, delta clinics are big business for important people. Having enough money for the ware is not enough reason for the delta docs to pick up and come to you. Conceivably, they could pack up their gear and come to you, but that would cost an incredible amount of extra money to make it worth their while.
Wakshaani
Jul 18 2007, 02:38 PM
The important thing is to remembe rthat it's a Delta Clinic, not a Delta Doctor. Not only is there high end gear and the best surgeons that money can buy, but the facilities are top notch, the surgical gear is Beyond SOTA, and teh recovery areas are clean and pure. Fresh linens, physical rehab, psychologists on call to help you deal with the new bodyparts, specialists to ensure that every centimeter of teh new chrome is working to spec. NanoSculptors that make the sythnflesh so real that it can sweat, complete with teh scar you got when you fell off your bike when you were seven and that birthmark that you didn't think anybody knew about.
The physical checkup you get (Look! Teams of nurses! Holography! My bloodwork shows what?!) alone is more than most Runners ever see. There's way more to Deltaware than shinier chrome.
sunnyside
Jul 18 2007, 03:45 PM
There also used to be extra mods to stuff based roughly on the skill of the surgeons and facitilites as I recal. I think you could even shave a little more off of your essence loss along with other little bennies. (and corresponding slaps if you go with Dr. Bob's quickstich I think).
Don't know if they'll be adding that back in. I kinda like it.
Jaid
Jul 18 2007, 04:52 PM
QUOTE (sunnyside) |
There also used to be extra mods to stuff based roughly on the skill of the surgeons and facitilites as I recal. I think you could even shave a little more off of your essence loss along with other little bennies. (and corresponding slaps if you go with Dr. Bob's quickstich I think).
Don't know if they'll be adding that back in. I kinda like it. |
i doubt they will, and i hope they won't.
way too much work for way too little benefit.
Aku
Jul 18 2007, 06:01 PM
im with jaid, i'd figure, that the concept of deltaware was not just better chrome, but better doctors as well.
laughingowl
Jul 19 2007, 10:37 PM
Agree with the Delta clinic not ware, nor doctor...
Tool kit ++ Tool Shop ++ Tool Facility +++++++++++++++++ Delta facility.
As to the old surgery rules shouldnt be that hard to convert them over to SR4.
I might work on doing a verision of them ... though probably will wait until Augementation (dont really think they will include surgery rules, but they might include things that need to be addressed ('essence holes', etc)
FrankTrollman
Jul 19 2007, 10:43 PM
Surgery rules for Augmentation include time, surgery damage, and subsequently healing time. The old rules for having marginal modifiers of Essence costs are gone - and good riddance.
-Frank
Wakshaani
Jul 19 2007, 11:08 PM
Oddly, I really want to see info on "CyberDrek", the 'ware that's old, out of shape, and not exactly on its first user.
"Uhm. Bob? I appreciate the work and all, but this new arm?"
"Yeah?"
"It, uh ... says "Maude" on it."
*shrug* "You wanted fast, I gave you fast."
"... frag."
FrankTrollman
Jul 19 2007, 11:34 PM
2nd hand cyberware is of course available in Augmentation. Like in previous editions, player characters will rarely want it for themselves.
-Frank
Kyoto Kid
Jul 19 2007, 11:41 PM
QUOTE (Wakshaani) |
Oddly, I really want to see info on "CyberDrek", the 'ware that's old, out of shape, and not exactly on its first user.
"Uhm. Bob? I appreciate the work and all, but this new arm?"
"Yeah?"
"It, uh ... says "Maude" on it."
*shrug* "You wanted fast, I gave you fast."
"... frag." |
...sweet
Ancient History
Jul 19 2007, 11:48 PM
Hmm-hmm.
Wakshaani
Jul 20 2007, 12:56 AM
AT any rate, one big reason I wonder is to figure out how widely available the treatments are. If there's only a dozen Deltas out there, than just getting access to one is a HUGE reward for a PC. If, in contrast, there's a dozen just in Seattle, well, not so big of a deal, then, is it?
Helps keep teh game more realistic (ish) when those sorts of things are known ahead of time.
Fortune
Jul 20 2007, 02:08 AM
QUOTE (Wakshaani) |
AT any rate, one big reason I wonder is to figure out how widely available the treatments are. If there's only a dozen Deltas out there, than just getting access to one is a HUGE reward for a PC. If, in contrast, there's a dozen just in Seattle, well, not so big of a deal, then, is it?
Helps keep teh game more realistic (ish) when those sorts of things are known ahead of time. |
I think that's the point of the authors being deliberately vague on the exact number. This way, if you as a GM want them to be ultra-rare (to be used as a big reward), then you are free to do so and still be following canon. Whereas if I want them to have become more common as my campaign develops, that is fine and would also be considered to be in line with canon.
If the authors just came out and gave specifics details on every Delta Clinic, our options as GMs would be somewhat more limited.
FrankTrollman
Jul 20 2007, 02:11 AM
recisely. Although I think it's pretty clear that there are more than a dozen total delta clinics, that number could be very close to a dozen and stay in canon.
If the gamemaster doesn't want you finding a delta clinic, he's well within his rights to have one not get found.
-Frank
Kyoto Kid
Jul 20 2007, 02:15 AM
...so, there!
Begby
Jul 20 2007, 04:04 AM
QUOTE (Wakshaani) |
Oddly, I really want to see info on "CyberDrek", the 'ware that's old, out of shape, and not exactly on its first user.
"Uhm. Bob? I appreciate the work and all, but this new arm?"
"Yeah?"
"It, uh ... says "Maude" on it."
*shrug* "You wanted fast, I gave you fast."
"... frag." |
Or whoops, isn't that arm a bit feminine?
And why do I now have a left boob with a tattoo of a daisy on it?
Shinobi Killfist
Jul 20 2007, 06:38 AM
QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
2nd hand cyberware is of course available in Augmentation. Like in previous editions, player characters will rarely want it for themselves.
-Frank |
Are they going to have non-suck cyberlimbs?
Down with the bioware focus.
Fortune
Jul 20 2007, 07:17 AM
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist) |
Down with the bioware focus. |
You mean like a Pain Editor Power Focusâ„¢?
Arz
Jul 20 2007, 02:41 PM
Delta Clinic Summary
How many exist?
Approximately ten worldwide. They are limited by personnel and funding, Not all the megacorps have one, since they don't all have medical holdings. There are independents but they have multiple financiers.
What service do they provide?
The absolute best medical service available. If you have the money they can provide any feasible medical service. Genetech, Nanotech, cyberware, bioware, and leonization; they do it all better than anyone else. They are also the only ones capable of maintaining the services they provide.
How do you get access to a delta clinic?
Own a multi-national conglomerate or have influence over 1 billion
. Otherwise you'll need special exemption form a party with access. They do not do charity cases. Leave your thoughts of breaching there security back in your squat.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 20 2007, 02:44 PM
QUOTE (Arz) |
How do you get access to a delta clinic? Own a multi-national conglomerate or have influence over 1 billion . Otherwise you'll need special exemption form a party with access. They do not do charity cases. Leave your thoughts of breaching there security back in your squat. |
SR4 Update:
Only requirement: Be able to pay.
Seriously, it's capitalism.
Jaid
Jul 20 2007, 04:30 PM
i think the director (or someone else high up) for one of those independant clinics is probably one of the few examples i can think of where a connection 6 contact isn't going to break the game entirely...
of course, the probability of the players ever having enough money for anything beyond the really cheap starting cost items (datajacks, implanted commlinks, etc) is pretty unlikely... certainly, if your team has enough to buy delta grade synaptic boosters 3, then you should be retiring as opposed to upgrading your ware...
Arz
Jul 20 2007, 05:15 PM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
SR4 Update:
Only requirement: Be able to pay. Seriously, it's capitalism. |
Realisticly the type of currency a shadowrunner owns is valued at 0
It's stolen goods and 100% illegal. That is why delta clinics need a voucher to back the promise of your currency. Shadowrunners just need a more solid voucher than most.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 20 2007, 05:30 PM
QUOTE (Arz) |
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | SR4 Update:
Only requirement: Be able to pay. Seriously, it's capitalism. |
Realisticly the type of currency a shadowrunner owns is valued at 0 It's stolen goods and 100% illegal. That is why delta clinics need a voucher to back the promise of your currency. Shadowrunners just need a more solid voucher than most. |
..you mean like paying up front?
mfb
Jul 20 2007, 05:33 PM
what? no it isn't. the black funds that most organizations use to pay runners are untraceable. there's no way to tell where the money came from--only that it's money. a runner might need a voucher to get into the clinic, so that the clinic can be sure he's not an operative seeking to steal something or blow them up, but that's a different issue.
FlakJacket
Jul 20 2007, 08:30 PM
According to Man and Machine as of the 2060s 'the number of delta clinics has probably tripled in the past six years - from half a dozen to almost twenty' and the parties that controlled one or more included all of the Megas with the exceptions of Ares and Wuxing, the Tir na nOg government, Universal Omnitech, Transys Neuronet - apparently has enough staff to run two. Other AA rated corps that were trying to build their own but kept being foiled by the competition include corps such as Yakashima - through their subsidiary Biogene, Proteus AG and Phoenix Biotechnologies. A number of private independent operating clinics also operate, they include the ones in Vancouver, Istanbul, Chiba, Switzerland and London. Although no doubt they'd move around from city to city and country to country periodically to keep their security intact.
Now how this might have changed by the 2070s is the major question. These places are majorly high tech places so the Crash v2.0 could have caused them some serious troubles, although that is offset by the fact that they'd be highly defended and most likely strictly kept offline. After Ares gobbled up Cross they've definately picked up the capability. Likewise Wuxing taking over large swathes of the PPG would likely give them a major boost as well. Transys and Novatech joining together could make a scarily powerful competitor since they'd now have enough resources to man three of the things. Although that is supposing that they share and play nice together.
Arz
Jul 21 2007, 07:10 PM
QUOTE (mfb) |
what? no it isn't. the black funds that most organizations use to pay runners are untraceable. there's no way to tell where the money came from--only that it's money. a runner might need a voucher to get into the clinic, so that the clinic can be sure he's not an operative seeking to steal something or blow them up, but that's a different issue. |
I have too much RL knowledge on the subject of currency exchange. None of which is particularly relevant except to say someone needs to vouch for you at a delta clinic. Like any other exclusive club they only provide services to select clients (ex: availability). All those people that gave you introductions along the way are vouching for you, one hopes. Most GM's are going to want to personalize this a little more than an availability test though. I mean you are gaining access to an elite facility, it should be noteworthy and fun.
mfb
Jul 21 2007, 07:19 PM
i agree that you need people to vouch for you, but i don't think it's because your money is illegal or stolen. if you get paid in the form of certified credsticks--and what runner doesn't?--then your money is explicitly not illegal--it's certified. it's directly linked to a bank that says "yes, this money is good no matter who spends it."
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 21 2007, 07:20 PM
And that's the major point in SR4:
Deltaware has no availability modifier.
It's as hard to aquire as standard ware.
mfb
Jul 21 2007, 07:21 PM
it is? oh good god.
Kyoto Kid
Jul 21 2007, 07:29 PM
...another hole in the road to fix via houserule.
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