What do you find most important in choosing and/or redesigning a vehicle, and why?

I voted speed, but really it's hard to say whether speed, acceleration, or handling is most important.
Unless I'm playing a rigger, in which case it's more along the lines of CF.

~J

Voted Speed too, with Acceleration or Signature as a close 2nd. But only because the only 'home design' we do is Micro Drones.

Sphynx

I don't build combat machines, so speed/armor/handling/etc. are just sort of secondary to the concept. Usually I build a vehicle because a non-rigger has accumulated a lot of wealth and is looking for a vehicle not quite matched by what's in the RBB or R3. Like:

*Cadillac STS. Basically, a de-stretched (?) limo. Reasonably fast, powerful, and has a good autopilot and light armor. Since modified to be the most intelligent member of the team and has better concealed armor. But it's not the fastest machine on the street (stock sports cars like the Eurocar Westwind outperform it), nor the toughest, nor the most heavily armed (no weapons.) It's just a fairly a safe car for a runner who's earned some enemies. Any determined enemy will open it like a tin can with anti-tank rockets, but otherwise, it's pretty safe.

*Sail boat. To get the frag away from civilization and not depend on outside resources to spend weeks at sea. (Well, satellite-based matrix access, of course. Can't go to sea alone without TV.)

*Private airship. Like the yacht, but solar powered. Stealthy enough to provide access to deep wilderness in nations without strict border monitoring.

Appropriateness to concept.

It might be fast or slow, clumsy or agile, stealthy or totally blatant, tough or fragile, but whatever its stats, they should always fit the concept, even when that doesn't make it ideally efficient game-mechanics-wise.

Yeah, I think it would be fun to run a Crimson Skies-style "Air Pirates" game.

you could do it in the carib league, it would be a LOT more effective than trying to use a ship.

Price and availability.

What inability to have living amentites on a zeppelin? It can support up to 300 CF worth of space (with the External Cargo Mount option) and in excess of 4,000kg of Load with an Electric Fuel Cell. Last time I checked, that was more than enough room and Load for several amentities. Maybe not enough for some shops and whatnot, but you could throw in about 25 amentites. That's more than twice the amount of a luxury yacht. Even without the External Cargo Mount you can exceed a yacht's amentities by two (12 vs. 10).

Oops, I miscalculated. I forgot about the 150 CF for People Space. So with that in mind, the Zeppelin can have 8 amentites with a little room to spare. It's still hardly an inability, though.

Other, ability to function while not attracting attention.

Price, and how well it blends into the city. I buy used Ford Americars, and treat them as expendable. The GM takes two or three away every year.

Yes, because creative interpretation of the rules without even having to break them is something that should always be frowned upon in lieu of just bitching about the rules in general, especially by a freelancer. Good call.

The two descriptions of what an External Cargo Mount can include (not the word "include" as used in the actual description, as in "not limited to" or "these are just some examples") are, indeed, things like a side cargo box or a roof rack. But the actual rules for one allow you to go as high as double the CF of the vehicle in exchange for worsening the Handling of the vehicle by -1. It's that simple; it's not even required to be an actual external component despite the generic name for the customization option. You're free to use those customization option as long as both of the rules reflected in it are abided by however you like, explaining them in any fashion you like, to describe just what it is on the vehicle.

Can it be a roof rack? Sure! Can it be a side cargo box on a bike? Sure! Can it be an enlongated and/or widened cabin on a zeppelin? Sure! Can it be just a poorly engineered vehicle with non-aerodynamic features that create extra drag in exchange for a more roomy interior? Sure!

Considering this is a Zeppelin we're talking about, the entire cabin is effectively an "external cargo mount" to begin with.

Rigger 3, p. 124, "Incorporating Modifications During Vehicle Design:" "ANY of the listed modifications [listed in this chapter, including Accessories, which is where the External Cargo Mount is located] may be installed during the vehicle design process."

Rigger 3, p. 151 Accessories, "External Cargo Mount." Read it and show me where it says it applies only to roof racks and cargo containers, or that it cannot be used in any other fashion. Just one line that says so.

"But thems the rules," eh? Helps to actually be right when you say stuff like that. Rigger 3 has plenty of failings, but that isn't one of them. A zeppilin can easily be designed that allows as much as 8 living amentities without breaking a single rule whatsoever, as opposed to your erroneous claims otherwise.

Deal with it.

Touche! I always miss the last line for some reason. I humbly take back my previous comments.

But the rest of the points stand. Just because it doesn't have DP and a silly limitation like that doesn't mean you can't still use it for those purposes.

I do think that Doc has a point in regards to Zeppelins, and the fact that the entire gondola could be considered external.

I picked the ..."How much it's like a mech"...option

'Cause frankly, I don't care about the vehicle rules, except about how it can be made into a mech.

I gotta say, Zeps hold people. While its a stretch, how many did the Hindenburg hold? 30 someodd? Id love to see an air pirate game, hell, even a good water or land pirate game... Sounds like a limited length game to me...

Are those big cargo zepplins still in sr3? There was one that could hold two ten meter cargo containers. An RV style living area could easily fit in one of them, leaving the other for a small van and other goodies.

A passenger Zeppelin can carry as many as 25 people (12 without the External Cargo Mount) using Partial Amentities using Rigger 3. The limit of 8 above was for full amentities; 8 people could comfortably live onboard one just as if they were living in an RV or on a yacht. A cargo Zeppelin can also carry up to 300 (150 without) CF of cargo. I've never been good at converting CF to square meters, though, so I don't know how much that is beyond 300 x 0.125 cubic meters.

Looks like 300 CF would be a 10 foot x 17 foot room with an 8 foot ceiling.

Heh, well I don't think that 8 people can comfortably live aboard an RV.

But two people certainly can, and 6 or so could live at a camping style comfort level.


Edit: oh never mind, I get what you were saying now Funkenstein.

Getting back to the original spirit of the thread, it all depends on the vehicle I'm designing. Some need to be uber-fast, others stealthy, others heavily armoured yet still look like regular vehicles etc.

I always go for armor. If they can't hurt you, it makes it easier to kill them.

Armor can hurt you. Concealable armor isn;t really concealed. the TN to see it isn't really too hard. Once a cop spots it you're kinda screwed.

Yeah, but I tend to play in Merc games.

Or games where I can outgun the cops. And that includes whole SWAT teams, if I and the team are geared out properly.

Just because the cops know a vehicle is armored, that doesn't necessarily mean you're "screwed." There's plenty of legitimate reasons to have an armored vehicle, including Z-Zone cabs, vehicles owned by a bodyguard or CEO, and so on and so forth. The last two, in particular, are going to be concealed more often than not. Hell, I don't even think it's illegal to have an armored vehicle at all unless the vehicle itself has a Legality rating... meaning it's probably a security-, police-, or military-grade vehicle anyway... at which point you would be screwed without a proper cover.