This last week, in order to throw things out of whack, I had my team of runner face a group of vampires in an old abandoned mine in Tibet. Standing at the mouth of the cave, knowing that there were enemies inside, the group decided to toss a neurostun gas grenade at the oncoming "mist." Since I really didn't know what would happen, I allowed the gas to force the vampires back to physical form and do the requisite stun damage, creating a wonderful scene of vampires popping back into existence and dropping to the floor unconscious.

The book states that while in mist form, creatures are immune to normal weapons (p. 289), definitively stating that bullets and sword can't hurt them. Was I absolutely in the wrong to allow gasses to mix with their mist form? Would gasses absorbed into the water actually affect them?

I might go with with the same results as a strong wind in that it would disorient the being. Something like the intermingling of the two mists would cause a reduction of connectivity between the individual mist particles, much like static for radio waves. That's what would cause the disorientation.

I would maintain that the beings mist wouldn't allow the absorption of the foreign mist into the being's mist. So incorporating would have the mist stay in areas that would have air in them already such as lungs, nasal passages, etc.

If concentrated (such as in a mine), I'd probably have the beings stunned while a mist, perhaps roll to see if being stunned causes them to be disoriented enough to lose the sustained nature of the spell and then be forced to be corporal again.

And they'd possibly be stunned again due to being corporal and in the presence of the narco mist (two different kinds of stun).

So yea, what you did sounds pretty good and above is how I'd explain it

Carl

There was actually another Dual Natured beast in there. They put up a mana-barrier, which blocks dual natured creatures, and then dropped the grenade in not knowing the mist was vampires. They were all very surprised when vampires started appearing out of thin air.

That's very inventive. I like it.

Wow... I like that too. Wish my group was that smart.

Vampires are immune to age, pathogens, and toxins. The gas should have no effect on them whether they are in mist form, or not. At least that is how I see it.

I'd say the gas could disrupt the mistform, but as they're immune to toxins, it wouldn't knock them out.

Good to know for next time. Thanks.

Red beat me to it, but yeah. Best you could do is completely deprive them of oxygen and put them into torpor (oh wait, that's the V:TM term, "Induced Dormancy" I guess). But even that takes several minutes, so its probably not the best tactic to try in combat.

SR vampires need oxygen? Weird.

OK

Well, I think that vampires aren't dead because they're running around and paying taxes. SR has always steered clear of the "undead" classification for vamps and the like; undead didn't make it into the system until the Corps Cadaver and the shedim (at least, I think it was shedim. I never really paid much attention to the shedim).

Will the mist freeze in very cold weather?

Will a vampire freeze in very cold weather? I think so. Therefore in mist form they would too.

Just because you think so doesn't make it right. Mist Form /= vaporasized water Form. It's Magic aka ignore-phyics-at-will.

Main reason why they shouldn't be affected: it would be rather silly. IMO.

Immunity to toxins should cover knockout gas. It is, after all, a toxin.

I don't see why a cloud of gas would force a vampire out of mist form. It's not like the mist takes up 100% of the volume it occupies... there's plenty of room between the atoms for other stuff, and the presence of a vampire might even cause the mist to dissipate faster (if his "mist form" contributes to the local air pressure at all). Otherwise the mist form would have serious issues on rainy days.

If it worked for the scene, however... go for it

Can you dikote a vampire in mist form?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Could you use a suction hose to vacuum up a mist form vampire?




-karma

Could you force a mist form Vampire into your internal air tank?

In Soviet Russia, Vampire is food for YOU!

Could a vampire in mist form willingly go into an internal air tank to be smuggled somewhere? The idea of a mook vomiting up a cloud of mist that coalesces into a guy is weird, but neat. I'm not as up on SR4, but I'm assuming gear doesn't go misty as well, otherwise you'd have the problem of the vamp strapping on four Vindicator Miniguns and then misting into an air tank.

I did notice in the Mist For description that creatures in mist form who are exposed to a substance they are allergic to are forced back into their normal form. For the vamps that's sunlight and wood. Sunlight's easy, if the cloud touchs sunlight, it goes back to vamp form. But does touching a cloud of mist with wood count as exposure? The rules seem to imply that it would, but it seems odd to me that a vampy cloud of mist couldn't float through a forest, or would drop back into physical form if someone tossed a toothpick into it.

Edit: How come typos are invisible until I hit 'Post Reply'?

There's one of the differences between SR4 and, say, D&D. D&D establishes a category for a template or quality such as "undead" so that GMs can consistently apply some core decisions about How Things Work. Are all paracritters magical, or does HMMV work by purely biochemical principles? Are vampires and ghouls alive in the way metahumans are, or walking corpses, or something in between? SR4 does not have that... yet; it just has the stats, without detailed fluff. (Same for the Matrix, really.)

Having characters strip down and get dressed again when using Mist Form or Shapechange or suchlike can be a hassle and some GMs prefer to gloss over it. (Also, it rules out turning into a sparrow and having any gear heavier than a coconut at your destination.) Having characters pick up 100 kilograms of cargo, Mist Form (or Shapeshift), and have their friend carry them in a bottle *as a way to smuggle 100 kilos of APDS over the border*, is also hassle. Cf. Turn to Goo on cyborgs and whether the cyberarm turns to goo, or can be extracted from the goo with, say, a magnet. Also cf. Improved Invisibility... the "your body, not your clothes" ruling was particularly fun for some watchers of the Fantastic Four movie because Jessica Alba was involved. (Also, casting Invisibility on, say, large trucks at intersections at rush hour, if a truck can be the "subject" of ImpInv.)

So, either way, hassles; you get to choose which set of hassles.

I agree.

For me, I prefer if things like Mist Form only affects the physical form of the creature, although I'd be willing to make a exception for foci and other things bound by karma (as well as thing paid for with Essence, of course).

I would assume that most of the fluff from previous editions would be a good guideline for critters, at least until more detailed stuff comes out for 4e. Making vampires and ghouls walking corpses would be a pretty big change to canon.