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ElFenrir
Well, im trying to do up my techwiz here, 4e style. I had the original incarnation in 3e, but didnt get to play him too much. He had a silly amount spent on skills then, and now he's up to 170 BPs on skills alone...and id even like to get him more if possible. Methinks Skillwires MIGHT be a good way to go with this guy...


Im not going to list all of his equipment yet; but ill figure out where im going with that. Ill list the purchased cyberware. (and we dont play with availability or cultured limitations, hence a couple pieces that normally you wouldnt start with.)



[ Spoiler ]


Anyhow, im still figuring a good street ailas for him and a few more background points, like we did in the old days of Shadowrun with the 20 questions.(which we were big believers in.) He does, as you can see, have a LOT of BPs spent on skills...and he's still missing a few i'd like him to have(Pilot Anthroform, since he has some drones as such, some Negotation as well, and a Gunnery skill.) Of course, he can always grow later; i can always have him practice piloting the anthroform drones and get some tutorsofts so i can pick them up with Karma. I have to figure his allergy; i won't lie, i needed the extra BPs. Come to think of it, there's still plenty of room for him to grow, and thats even with spending alot on skills.

The bit of physical ware(muscle toner, bone lacing) was gotten so he could try to ''catch his meat bod'' up a bit with his really tweaked out leg. It's nothing too extensive, and i don't see him getting much more ware in the future, to be honest...though I am still debating the Skillwires at rating 3 or something.

So, questions? Comments? Anything i should do differently or am i forgetting anything?
Tarantula
You cyberlimb you can't start with. Base is 3 for all of those, you've added +4 to them, which means its +12 availibility (+1 each upgrade) which means with a cyberlimbs base 4 availibility, you can't start with it.
ElFenrir
I mentioned above; our group doesn't play with availability. smile.gif

I'd make it all level 5/6/6 if i had to play in a game that used it; but as of now, we play with ''anything goes''.
noonesshowmonkey
I think that skillwires would probably fit him really very well. While he sounds like the hands-on type that would prefer to really know how to do things, he also likes to tinker... His skills also seem to be setup as a general handy man. One of the best ways that a character like this could save themselves time would be to get a skillwire set so they could look up specs and data sheets for projects without having to use a commlink and use the skillwires to augment their skills and memory. I can imagine that a guy like this would really enjoy being able to call up that kind of auxiliary information.

Imagine being able to indulge any technical curiosity on a whim? To let imagination and talent guide your thoughts and the skillwires guide your hands. It would be totally awesome.

Further, his background suggests a depressed period where maybe his studies put considerable strain on him. Maybe the skillwires were acquired then for the wrong reasons and he has since rehabilitate himself and the use of his skillwires for more productive ends?

I think that it jives pretty well and would let you fill out his knowledge skills with tons of cool stuff.

- der menkey

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemingway
Simon May
QUOTE (noonesshowmonkey)
I think that skillwires would probably fit him really very well. While he sounds like the hands-on type that would prefer to really know how to do things, he also likes to tinker...

Aren't those contradictory? If he uses skillwires and knowsofts, he won't actually know how to do these things. He'll be able to do it and he'll understand whywhile the knowsoft is running, but as soon as it's off, coming back and looking at his work he'll be wondering why he wired it that way.
noonesshowmonkey
NULL
Simon May
Sorry, I didn't finish reading your post before I responded. In fact, I stopped right before your explanation on hwy he'd have them, which is great backstory, BTW.
ElFenrir
Well, I think its a damned cool idea, myself, when you put it that way. He has so many skills as it is i didnt want it to go into cheeseworld which was what i was afraid of(yeah, hes got a well twinked cyberleg for hitting something but it's only used if necessary...he more or less likes to 'play with it to see what he can do') but i could indeed see him with that depressive bout for awhile(can happen when you lose a whole limb.)

Skillwires 3 or 4 wouldn't be hard to come by, and i could indeed think of varied activesofts and knowsofts he'd like to have. He likes to learn things, and know them on his own, but having a ton of stuff he hasn't gotten a chance to learn yet at his fingertips would be great; i was thinking of things like locksmithing and knowledges ranging from microtronics to backgrounds on something mundane like old computer engineering. As mentioned the Anthroform Pilot(perhaps he just came across his little spider walker drones and never piloted anything like that before, and can't wait for his tutorsoft to finish to try them out).

And he definately is the hands-on type. And he almost has a tinkering compulsion; nothing is good enough ''right out of the box''.

Ill do a little working with the softs here and see what i can get him.
Tarantula
Might as well make it 9/9/9 at that point then.
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Might as well make it 9/9/9 at that point then.

Takes up Capacity that he might prefer to use in a different way.
ElFenrir
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Nov 9 2007, 08:24 AM)
Might as well make it 9/9/9 at that point then.

Takes up Capacity that he might prefer to use in a different way.

Jep, i wanted to save some decent room for the toolkits and the like, and anything else cool i can see him fitting into it. I figured having a 7/7/7 leg wouldn't be too outrageous. Again, it's not like it's his main way of dealing with problems. Hell, if i had a cyberleg, i'd want to do cool stuff to it too if i had the means and the knowhow.
Tarantula
Make it custom, you can have it be 9/9/9 and have full capacity too.
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Nov 10 2007, 01:30 AM)
Make it custom, you can have it be 9/9/9 and have full capacity too.

Nope. All mods over the natural racial maximum cost Capacity.

QUOTE (Augmentation pg. 44)
Customized cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes that may exceed the standard cyberlimb attribute rating of 3. Each customized cyberlimb may have a starting Body, Strength, and Agility attribute of up to the character’s natural attribute maximum (see pp. 62 and 73, SR4). Each point of increment to an attribute above 3 raises the limb’s Availability rating by 1 point and adds 1,500¥ to the final cost, but does not take up any Capacity. Further increases above the natural attribute maximum and up to the augmented maximum must be handled as cyberlimb enhancements, with the standard Capacity and nuyen costs (see Cyberlimb Enhancements, p. 335, SR4). All other stats of customized cyberlimbs are the same as for standard cyberlimbs (see Cyberlimbs table, p. 336, SR4).
Tarantula
Ah, I guess I forgot about that, you're right, nevermind.
ElFenrir
Ok, I even have a little confusion here. I know about the capacity issue; again, which is why i wanted to keep it to 7/7/7. Each attribute is one above the human maximum.

In SR4, it says that the capacity the augmentations take up is Ratingx1(Ratingx2 for armor).

Im guessing this does not count the base 3 of the cyberlimb. But...for a custom cyberlimb, it says that the starting custom limbs can have attributes up to the normal maximum.

So, would the capacity taken up by a custom cyberlimb with a 7 body be 1(since its a 6 base), or would it be 4 (assuming base of 3 plus 4?)

For the SR4 stock cyberlimb, since it starts at 3/3/3, raising it to 7/7/7 would indeed be 4 capacity for each stat(12 total).

In my limited augmentation knowledge, does a custom cyberlimb, as im reading it, assume to START at 6/6/6 if you so choose? (ie, get custom limb and pay 13,500 nuyen, or 4,500 for each attribute, to go from a base 3 to a base 6?)

Sorry if it sounds a bit confusing, but i just want to clear this up.

If its how i think, 7/7/7 will cost 3 capacity total, IF i buy the custom cyberlimb at a base 6/6/6.

which would work wonderfully; since i do want to have the built in toolkits. If i had to drop it to 5/5/5, i'd do it, but id want to keep a measure of augmentation since he's spent alot of time between him and the street doc tweaking it in all kinds of ways.
Tarantula
"If its how i think, 7/7/7 will cost 3 capacity total, IF i buy the custom cyberlimb at a base 6/6/6."

Correct. The limb will also be a base of 16 availability, and cost a grant total of 28,500¥ plus the enhancements.
Ryu
You should look into hydraulic cyberlegs when you stat this one out. It would give you some special mobility and is IMO better than a few points of armor.
ElFenrir
Hydraulic jacks DO look cool. But im thinking i kind of need them in both my legs to really...do anything. I mean, he could have stuck them in the cyberleg for some reason...perhaps they looked cool or something, but while he likes to tinker, he would be more inclined to put something in that more immediately useful.

Well, I lowered the Body to 6(no Cap), keeping Agl/Str at 7 at the moment, but i believe i might drop them to 6 as well(since it's frees up all the Capacity). The blade takes 3, and he's got 5 cap left in the leg.


Reading the SR4 book(i think next week im buying Augmentation, be it hardcover or -pdf...ive been putting off the pdf just in case they get the real one in my local store, since i like to have the book), i find most tweaks to limbs are just weapons. The built-in toolkits of the past aren't there. I can, however, get a Small smuggling compartments(2 cap each, but for micro sized items), or a Large for 5 cap, which can fit a pistol...im wondering if i can negotiate if it can fit a few electronics tools since they aren't too big(a few screwdrivers and the like probably wont be as big as a heavy pistol).

If i decide to get both a Large and Small compartment, ill drop the leg to 6/6/6, if i just get the Large, ill keep it as it is now.

Going to retweak his sheet up after i see what i can do about the skillwires. I DO really like that idea. Thanks for the input so far. grinbig.gif
Ryu
Well, you could use two lower leg-replacements. And spare yourself some headaches by adjusting the custom cyberlimbs to the stats of the rest of your body. At least do not waste capacity for some special cases where you might use a single limb.

You could reserve capacity for a comlink in one leg, it can communicate wireless with the datajack you already have if there are disputes about placement.

And do wait for augmentation. You might want cyberhands. Just saying. For me it was a toss-up between legs (hydraulic jack) and replaceable cyberhands. The legs won...
ElFenrir
Well, the leg is part of the story. I dont know if i see the accident where he lost both of his lower legs and both of his hands. The leg came to mind, so im not really caring about ''maximum efficency'' as ''cool stuff i can do with this one leg''. It sort of turned his depression around when he got it over a normal prosthetic, due to his mechanical interests and meeting the streetdoc.

Hmm...though he's got 5 remaining capacity(possibly 7 if i make it 6/6/6), so there MIGHT be room for the storage compartment AND a commlink. Would be nice.

Trust me when i say the cyberhand sounded cool too. Tools in the fingers? Yes, please! But, i think i like the leg only for him in the end. Though, theres nothing saying he cant have a fingertip compartment or two in his natural hands.

And the stat increases came from, him, again, tweaking the leg. Again, why not? he worked with his doc to basically design a 'monster' so to speak. And since 6/6/6 doesn't cost any capacity in a custom cyberleg, no harm, no foul.
Grinder
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Well, the leg is part of the story. I dont know if i see the accident where he lost both of his lower legs and both of his hands.

Whatever it was, it surely can be labeled as "Freak Accident". grinbig.gif
ElFenrir
QUOTE (Grinder)
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Nov 10 2007, 02:09 PM)
Well, the leg is part of the story. I dont know if i see the accident where he lost both of his lower legs and both of his hands.

Whatever it was, it surely can be labeled as "Freak Accident". grinbig.gif

Something involving power tools, a motorcycle, and a box of garden gnomes, perhaps. grinbig.gif
Tarantula
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Well, the leg is part of the story. I dont know if i see the accident where he lost both of his lower legs and both of his hands. The leg came to mind, so im not really caring about ''maximum It sort of turned his depression around when he got it over a normal prosthetic, due to his mechanical interests and meeting the streetdoc.

Uhh, isn't a cyberlimb a normal prosthetic nowadays? Sure, not a custom tuned spur carrying one, but still...
Simon May
Yes, but any rebellious teenager is going to pay for aftermarket add-ons. It's like buying a zippy honda or mazda and juicing it up for street racing.
Ryu
But he only lost one leg to the accident, not keeping that last foot natural was the sensible thing to do, easier to balance, more toys...
Grinder
Having your remaining natural foot amputated is nothing you do easily...
Ryu
I might see that differently if the new one is better. Right now I´d agree.
ElFenrir
Yeah, i had actually, when i first started to plan this guy, considered the idea of making him start to get a little hooked on replacing his body(dunno, perhaps some sort of accident trauma? Perhaps he figured if more of his body was metal it wouldn't be hurt as easily.) But then i sort of ditched that idea for the current one(One full, obvious, but tweaked-all-up cyberleg.)

It's pretty funny, even with all of the skills he has, theres room for so many more-hence me definately picking up tutorsofts for Gunnery, Pilot Anthroform, Armorer, good ol Lockpicking and Negotations), along with Electronic Warfare, which i understand can help techies in some ways.

Though with the idea of him possibly relying on Skillwires for awhile is still neat...i can pick up the skillsofts for those skills, and perhaps over the last couple of years he's been wanting to finally learn them for real, maybe after a couple of instances where ''damnit, the info isn't here, if i had the skill i could learn it better!''.

Edge increasing later is something i want to do as well; i just didnt have enough left to do it at the start, and i figure having base edge is kinda cool for him since he did have a pretty unlucky accident before. Not so much that he'd need the 'Bad Luck' flaw, though. I'll eventually raise up his couple of combat skills too, though im happy with them around 3-4 in the long run, something to back him up since stuff typically goes wrong in my groups and he's more of an on-the-spot fella than a hide-in-the-van drone rigger.

I don't think im going overboard on the pilot skills though; some yes, but i see him as more of the B/R expert than flat-out rigger; the rigging skills are his secondary.

Hell, you should have seen the SR3 version; he was built with the BP system(we had 123), and he used the full 60 on active skills, and STILL ran out. nyahnyah.gif

Again thanks for any input, i think this is the guy im playing come winter holiday in a side campaign(going away to meet the old RP group in the US for 3-4 weeks next month, so we'll be doing some good SR time. We had a game running with one GM, and probably a second with another.)
Grinder
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Yeah, i had actually, when i first started to plan this guy, considered the idea of making him start to get a little hooked on replacing his body(dunno, perhaps some sort of accident trauma? Perhaps he figured if more of his body was metal it wouldn't be hurt as easily.) But then i sort of ditched that idea for the current one(One full, obvious, but tweaked-all-up cyberleg.)

You'll love Augmentation wink.gif There's a chapter discussings exactly the topic of augmentation-addicted people.
Alphastream
One word of warning is that the cost of the drones and bulldog can be significant if you up the ratings (as they did with the archetypes). The van the archetypes have is over 70k, if I recall correctly. The drones can be 20k each depending on rating. That, combined with cyberwear, can really use up build points in a hurry.

I like the build. Not too different from my Rigger-Rocker I drew up. I'm still wrestling with the aluminum bone lacing vs waiting for Orthoskin later on or something else. My own backstory didn't see a reason for cyberlimbs, though they are very cool.
noonesshowmonkey
As Grinder noted, Augmentation has some good rules / background / fluff for enhancement addiction.

There is a definite tension in the character design that you put forth between the real and simulacra. Which is one of the main themes of post-modern cyberpunk.

This can be expressed easily with the desire to augment the human body as he constantly struggles with a feeling of inadequacy - an entirely human feeling being responded to and resolved by entirely inhuman methods. As the character background already contains a period of intense personal depression, its entirely possibe to believe that he never really got over it, so to speak, and instead has adapted to an "even keel", even if he is deep running and depressive.

Continuing the idea its entirely possible to have a character motivation to struggle with feelings of adequacy and competence, despite his blatant competency at given tasks. The things that he does well are not necessarily things he has to believe in, they can be "low" skills of utility rather than quality... A low edge can mean that he is incapable of "pushing himself" to heights otherwise reachable by many under times of pressure - ie he buckles.

Following this, he seeks to replace his entirely average meat limbs with cybernetic enhancements to gain the ability to go above and beyond and satisfy his own (or others) expectations. A total addiction to performance enhancements seeking to allow him to do "real" tasks at a higher level of competency at the cost of "real-ness".

Definitely a good internal conflict to justify several sweeping character choices for gear, skills etc. and to guide his development.

Could make for a fun time playing him, too.

- der menkey

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemingway
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