I got tired of doing the math every time so I wrote a spreadsheet to do it for me.

so Enjoy

hmm I just realized that most every out there does not use open office,SO what format do you want the file in?

Well, optimal would be a program rather than a spreadsheet, but given that OO.o is Free open-source software I'd say it's a good choice.

~J

I did something for magic too here is magic

Magic Attribute ~ Karma
1 ~ As Magic
2 ~ 6 / 10 BP
3 ~ 9 / 10 BP
4 ~ 12 / 10 BP
5 ~ 15 / 10 BP
6 ~ 18 / 25 BP
7 ~ 21
8 ~ 24
9 ~ 27
10 ~ 30
11 ~ 33
12 ~ 36
13 ~ 39
14 ~ 42
15 ~ 45
16 ~ 48
17 ~ 51
18 ~ 54
19 ~ 57
20 ~ 60
21 ~ 63

Here is the Initiation

Initiation ~ Karma ~ Group Karma(-20%) ~ Ordeal Karma(-40%)
1 ~ 13 ~ 11 ~ 8
2 ~ 16 ~ 13 ~ 10
3 ~ 19 ~ 16 ~ 12
4 ~ 22 ~ 18 ~ 14
5 ~ 25 ~ 20 ~ 15
6 ~ 28 ~ 23 ~ 17
7 ~ 31 ~ 25 ~ 19
8 ~ 34 ~ 28 ~ 21
9 ~ 37 ~ 30 ~ 23
10 ~ 40 ~ 32 ~ 24
11 ~ 43 ~ 35 ~ 26
12 ~ 46 ~ 37 ~ 28
13 ~ 49 ~ 40 ~ 30
14 ~ 52 ~ 42 ~ 32
15 ~ 55 ~ 44 ~ 33
16 ~ 58 ~ 47 ~ 35
17 ~ 61 ~ 49 ~ 37
18 ~ 64 ~ 52 ~ 39
19 ~ 67 ~ 54 ~ 41
20 ~ 70 ~ 56 ~ 42
21 ~ 73 ~ 59 ~ 44

I can't open yours

Does he say it in the text?

~J

You'll have to ask him more about it, but it has always been a normal aspect of Shadowrun to round in favor of the Player unless explicitly stated otherwise.

I did as the book stated

He explains it better in this post (one of quite a few, but the only one I can find at the moment), where he corrects me on this very subject ...

Frank's Comments on Initiation Costs

As you claim to have done it by the book, and Frank helped write the book, I thought you might like to know the intent.

Where text is vague, intent can fill in. Where text and intent are at cross purposes, intent must be discarded, as it obviously wasn't strong enough to make it worth getting the text right.

(This is in general; I have no idea whether this particular case is vague, contradictory, or plain as the nose on my face.)

~J

Interesting will have to look into some posts.

For what it's worth, I actually looked for cases where the rules explicitly called for floors or ceilings, and I was unable to find a consistent bias for or against the player. Things round both for and against the player in ratios that were not obviously overwhelming.

~J

I've looked at some posts as to initiation Frank Trollman says that the first level of initiation at a 40% discount (group/ordeal) is only 7 karma. his math is 13 -40% is 7.8 rounded down to 7 for level 1.

But in the book I read 13 -40% = 7.8 which right in the middle of the page is a text box that says you round up to 8.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Yeah, Frank's way of calculating it is cheaper for my Adept character, Ill use it!

And do not forget that the devs are still human (and also that Frank is one of them)

In no way shape or form was i saying anything against Frank I am just wanting to make sure I do it the right way.

It is Frank's argument that the wording of the rules states that the reduction (ie 20 or 40%) is rounded up. Upon reviewing the actual wording of the rules, this does seem to be the case.