Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: gun options
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Mercer
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
If you die on the internet, you die in real life.

~J

Is it true that only a ninja can kill a ninja... on the internet?
X-Kalibur
Snowfox, I've fired a S&W .38 before and I have to agree with you, they kick like all hell and accuracy after about 30 ft goes straight to hell. Of course, you are using it as a personal defense weapon so 30 ft is actually rather decent. My wrists were actually sore for a couple days after firing one at a range, I'll stick to a semi-automatic .40 or .45 any day... although with the right rounds packed in it, I bet you could conceal a Walther PPK quite nicely, and they make them in a .380
Snow_Fox
it's the short barrel combined with the larger round that blows out the accuracy. My .357 S&W with a normal barrel is just fine. The lighter metals make it what really kicks so painfully.

I'm surprised no one here has really commented on the placement of the lazer sight on the side.

DLN you are just soo lucky my God-daughter loves you!
Kagetenshi
Why would the side-placement be a bad thing at the kind of range something with a barrel that short would be useful for?

~J
kzt
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
it's the short barrel combined with the larger round that blows out the accuracy. My .357 S&W with a normal barrel is just fine. The lighter metals make it what really kicks so painfully.

Is it really the recoil, or is it anticipation of the recoil? Have you tried randomly mixing in some dummy rounds and seeing what happens?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Dec 30 2007, 12:04 PM)
QUOTE
Personally, I think confronting the guy at all would be moronic. Stay calm and call the police. If he engages you, defend yourself. If you're a kung-fu master, use that, if you're not use the gun or the car, whatever. If someone else is attacked and you think you should intervene, by all means, let your conscience be your guide. But if there's a maniac raving in the street, it seems like the last thing you want to do is engage and escalate the situation, particularly with deadly force. (Unless you're Batman, in which case, go for it.)


Are you stupid? The whole point of Batman is that he does absolutely everything in his power to avoid lethal force. And as far as guns go, he'd rather die than use one. Read his origins, noob.


Batman doesn't uses guns or lethal force due to concessions made during the time that controversy over violent crime comics was ramping up. Classic Golden Age Batman makes The Punisher look soft on crime by comparison.

Golden Age Robin feeds ammo into Batman's machine gun.
As you can clearly see, the real Batman wants us to keep the bullets flying.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jan 1 2008, 09:07 AM)
it's the short barrel combined with the larger round that blows out the accuracy. My .357 S&W with a normal barrel is just fine. The lighter metals make it what really kicks so painfully.

Is it really the recoil, or is it anticipation of the recoil? Have you tried randomly mixing in some dummy rounds and seeing what happens?

It's the real recoil of the gun. This isn't a case of a newbie picking up a fire arm and 'oh my." Sure the first time I pulled the trigger on a pistol I was tense expecting something horrible to happen, but now, I've been shooting for years and am well use to the recoil of a hand gun. This was different and even if it was the antici.......pation, my hand wouldn't be hurting the next day.
DTFarstar
I know this isn't precisely on topic, but are there any particularly good fun sites or forums I could be directed to. Mostly interested in handguns of the concealable and self-protection variety although SR has stirred up my interest in everything involved with guns. A friend of mine is going to get a CCL and a gun soon because of some things happening near campus and I want to help him out and I will probably be moving to a much larger city in a year and a half and plan on doing the same myself sometime before I get there. I'm a huge guy and decently trained as far as HtH goes, but when it comes down to it bullet beats fist.

Chris
CircuitBoyBlue
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Dec 30 2007, 12:04 PM)
QUOTE
Personally, I think confronting the guy at all would be moronic. Stay calm and call the police. If he engages you, defend yourself. If you're a kung-fu master, use that, if you're not use the gun or the car, whatever. If someone else is attacked and you think you should intervene, by all means, let your conscience be your guide. But if there's a maniac raving in the street, it seems like the last thing you want to do is engage and escalate the situation, particularly with deadly force. (Unless you're Batman, in which case, go for it.)


Are you stupid? The whole point of Batman is that he does absolutely everything in his power to avoid lethal force. And as far as guns go, he'd rather die than use one. Read his origins, noob.


Batman doesn't uses guns or lethal force due to concessions made during the time that controversy over violent crime comics was ramping up. Classic Golden Age Batman makes The Punisher look soft on crime by comparison.

Golden Age Robin feeds ammo into Batman's machine gun.
As you can clearly see, the real Batman wants us to keep the bullets flying.

No, the Batman that keeps a cave full of rainbow colored batsuits and appears in Christmas pageants with the police wants to keep the bullets flying. The real batman, who skulks around in the dark being moody and kicking your ass without a gun because he's all man, didn't come around until much later. The Golden Age is for reactionaries and 5 year olds.
Fortune
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Jan 2 2008, 12:03 PM)
I know this isn't precisely on topic, but are there any particularly good fun sites or forums I could be directed to. Mostly interested in handguns of the concealable and self-protection variety ...

Nice typo! biggrin.gif
Lindt
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jan 1 2008, 09:24 PM)
QUOTE (kzt @ Jan 1 2008, 02:16 PM)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jan 1 2008, 09:07 AM)
it's the short barrel combined with the larger round that blows out the accuracy. My .357 S&W with a normal barrel is just fine. The lighter metals make it what really kicks so painfully.

Is it really the recoil, or is it anticipation of the recoil? Have you tried randomly mixing in some dummy rounds and seeing what happens?

It's the real recoil of the gun. This isn't a case of a newbie picking up a fire arm and 'oh my." Sure the first time I pulled the trigger on a pistol I was tense expecting something horrible to happen, but now, I've been shooting for years and am well use to the recoil of a hand gun. This was different and even if it was the antici.......pation, my hand wouldn't be hurting the next day.

I have seen the combination of both first hand. I brought a petite female friend of mine to the 'local' range, and she decided to start with a little 38 special, and it was just kicking her ass for the reasons you mentioned. It just had no weight.
The range master eventually switched her to a 9mm of some sort, and to her it was more manageable.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Jan 1 2008, 09:28 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jan 1 2008, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Dec 30 2007, 12:04 PM)
QUOTE
Personally, I think confronting the guy at all would be moronic. Stay calm and call the police. If he engages you, defend yourself. If you're a kung-fu master, use that, if you're not use the gun or the car, whatever. If someone else is attacked and you think you should intervene, by all means, let your conscience be your guide. But if there's a maniac raving in the street, it seems like the last thing you want to do is engage and escalate the situation, particularly with deadly force. (Unless you're Batman, in which case, go for it.)


Are you stupid? The whole point of Batman is that he does absolutely everything in his power to avoid lethal force. And as far as guns go, he'd rather die than use one. Read his origins, noob.


Batman doesn't uses guns or lethal force due to concessions made during the time that controversy over violent crime comics was ramping up. Classic Golden Age Batman makes The Punisher look soft on crime by comparison.

Golden Age Robin feeds ammo into Batman's machine gun.
As you can clearly see, the real Batman wants us to keep the bullets flying.

No, the Batman that keeps a cave full of rainbow colored batsuits and appears in Christmas pageants with the police wants to keep the bullets flying. The real batman, who skulks around in the dark being moody and kicking your ass without a gun because he's all man, didn't come around until much later. The Golden Age is for reactionaries and 5 year olds.

You're confusing the Silver Age with the Golden Age. The upbeat postwar Silver Age was full of camp. The Golden Age, taking place smack dab in the middle of the Great Depression, two World Wars, the Spanish Flu, the Dust Bowl, Lynchings and Melvin Pervis's FBI, was substantially darker than the modern age.

Heroes of the time killed criminals regularly, without hesitation or remorse. They acted like the cops and the G-Men of the time. The morality was black and white. If you attempt to murder an innocent person or a cop or a superhero then you deserve to die. The Batman of the time understood that slapping a mass murderer like The Joker on the knuckles with a ruler and making him promise never to kill hundreds of people for fun again just isn't going to cut it. And he understood that people have the right to defend themselves from attempted murder.

The original Batman sulked more and was more moody than the modern Batman. He also tended to break people's necks and throw them off rooftops.


The squeaky-clean no-kill Batman of the modern era is an idiot, as demonstrated simply by the hundreds of murders committed by The Joker on his watch. His dislike of guns boils down to the belief that everyone should spend the vast majority of their lives training to be ninjas in hidden Japanese monasteries and those that don't simply don't have the right to defend themselves. He's a liberal billionaire playboy who advocates liberal billionaire justice, leaving the poor with no alternative but to die.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
His dislike of guns boils down to the belief that everyone should spend the vast majority of their lives training to be ninjas in hidden Japanese monasteries and those that don't simply don't have the right to defend themselves.

It's not a belief that you can reasonably disagree with, I'd say.

~J
Mercer
QUOTE
His dislike of guns boils down to the belief that everyone should spend the vast majority of their lives training to be ninjas in hidden Japanese monasteries and those that don't simply don't have the right to defend themselves.

I always liked his speech from the Dark Knight Returns, about how guns make killing people too easy, that we spare ourselves the work.

Although for my money, I've always preferred Rorschach. (Who's playing him in the new Watchman movie, btw?)
nezumi
QUOTE (DTFarstar)
I know this isn't precisely on topic, but are there any particularly good fun sites or forums I could be directed to. Mostly interested in handguns of the concealable and self-protection variety although SR has stirred up my interest in everything involved with guns. A friend of mine is going to get a CCL and a gun soon because of some things happening near campus and I want to help him out and I will probably be moving to a much larger city in a year and a half and plan on doing the same myself sometime before I get there. I'm a huge guy and decently trained as far as HtH goes, but when it comes down to it bullet beats fist.

Chris

The best best best place it you genuinely want to learn and are willing to dedicate the time is www.thehighroad.org . It's a forum dedicated for gun enthusiasts. Some of the guys really, really know their stuff, a lot of people there are like me ('the side of the gun with the hole in it you point at the bad guy. Don't put the bullets down the hole! You need to do something more complex to load the gun...') (Hmm... Just got an image of me holding the breech at the bad guy with a bullet sticking out of the muzzle. No matter, you get the idea.)

Sign up so you can use the search features. Then just read, search and comment on threads when you have a question. It'll take some time, but you'll come away knowing way more than you'd learn from any single site, and a lot more practical knowledge as well.
Critias
QUOTE (DTFarstar)
I know this isn't precisely on topic, but are there any particularly good fun sites or forums I could be directed to. Mostly interested in handguns of the concealable and self-protection variety although SR has stirred up my interest in everything involved with guns. A friend of mine is going to get a CCL and a gun soon because of some things happening near campus and I want to help him out and I will probably be moving to a much larger city in a year and a half and plan on doing the same myself sometime before I get there. I'm a huge guy and decently trained as far as HtH goes, but when it comes down to it bullet beats fist.

Chris

I'd suggest Glocktalk.com, if you've got the time to devote to it. The place is positively huge, so wading through everything is an exercise in futility -- you've got to pick two or three sub-forums to keep up with (there are forums there for almost anything you can think of, gun related or otherwise), but all in the all the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty solid if you take the time to read what's there. You can learn a lot, about..well...almost anything.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (DTFarstar)
I know this isn't precisely on topic, but are there any particularly good fun sites or forums I could be directed to. Mostly interested in handguns of the concealable and self-protection variety although SR has stirred up my interest in everything involved with guns. A friend of mine is going to get a CCL and a gun soon because of some things happening near campus and I want to help him out and I will probably be moving to a much larger city in a year and a half and plan on doing the same myself sometime before I get there. I'm a huge guy and decently trained as far as HtH goes, but when it comes down to it bullet beats fist.

Chris

http://thefiringline.com/forums/

A really good site, their forums are devided into laws, general and particular classes of guns- revolvers, semi auto etc.

Most states declare that CC permits do not allow you to carry on college campus or school grounds.
DTFarstar
And here I thought my request was lost in all the Batman stuff. 3 answers here and a PM from someone all right after the other. So, now I'm a member of getoffthex.com, thefiringling.com, glocktalk.com, and thehighroad.org forums. I'm never going to get anything done anymore, but oh well. Thanks everyone, for the good answers. I hope to see you around here and there.

Chris
Snow_Fox
I've practiced a bit more with it since I started the post. it still kicks like a son of a bitch but I've worked on improving accuracy. surprised hell out of the ugys at the range with good shooting at 30 feet. and that brings this back to the topic.

When I tried using the hard sights on the gun, like I'd do with my other guns, it aims high, probably what the range guys were thinking. If I try to combine the hard sights with the laser, forget it, worst shooting I've ever done, BUT if I use just the laser accuracy goes way up., including shootnig from the hip. Which shows how trying to combine different aiming systems doesn't work. trust me, I use the hard sights and laser and it is completely f'ed up!

I'm still surprised by the laser on the side. I mean in SR such aims must be under or over barrell. the laser on my .38 add another 'slot' to the options.

Daddy's Little Ninja
And this is my daughter's godmother. Interesting role model.
kzt
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
And this is my daughter's godmother. Interesting role model.

Well, there is Paxton Quigley.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Jan 1 2008, 09:28 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jan 1 2008, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue @ Dec 30 2007, 12:04 PM)
QUOTE
Personally, I think confronting the guy at all would be moronic. Stay calm and call the police. If he engages you, defend yourself. If you're a kung-fu master, use that, if you're not use the gun or the car, whatever. If someone else is attacked and you think you should intervene, by all means, let your conscience be your guide. But if there's a maniac raving in the street, it seems like the last thing you want to do is engage and escalate the situation, particularly with deadly force. (Unless you're Batman, in which case, go for it.)


Are you stupid? The whole point of Batman is that he does absolutely everything in his power to avoid lethal force. And as far as guns go, he'd rather die than use one. Read his origins, noob.


Batman doesn't uses guns or lethal force due to concessions made during the time that controversy over violent crime comics was ramping up. Classic Golden Age Batman makes The Punisher look soft on crime by comparison.

Golden Age Robin feeds ammo into Batman's machine gun.
As you can clearly see, the real Batman wants us to keep the bullets flying.

No, the Batman that keeps a cave full of rainbow colored batsuits and appears in Christmas pageants with the police wants to keep the bullets flying. The real batman, who skulks around in the dark being moody and kicking your ass without a gun because he's all man, didn't come around until much later. The Golden Age is for reactionaries and 5 year olds.

You're confusing the Silver Age with the Golden Age. The upbeat postwar Silver Age was full of camp. The Golden Age, taking place smack dab in the middle of the Great Depression, two World Wars, the Spanish Flu, the Dust Bowl, Lynchings and Melvin Pervis's FBI, was substantially darker than the modern age.

Heroes of the time killed criminals regularly, without hesitation or remorse. They acted like the cops and the G-Men of the time. The morality was black and white. If you attempt to murder an innocent person or a cop or a superhero then you deserve to die. The Batman of the time understood that slapping a mass murderer like The Joker on the knuckles with a ruler and making him promise never to kill hundreds of people for fun again just isn't going to cut it. And he understood that people have the right to defend themselves from attempted murder.

The original Batman sulked more and was more moody than the modern Batman. He also tended to break people's necks and throw them off rooftops.


The squeaky-clean no-kill Batman of the modern era is an idiot, as demonstrated simply by the hundreds of murders committed by The Joker on his watch. His dislike of guns boils down to the belief that everyone should spend the vast majority of their lives training to be ninjas in hidden Japanese monasteries and those that don't simply don't have the right to defend themselves. He's a liberal billionaire playboy who advocates liberal billionaire justice, leaving the poor with no alternative but to die.

Hyzmarcowned! Especially following the "noob" comment.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)


I'm still frustrated with formal wear. Men can carry a gun in a tux. I wear the little black cocktail dress and there, biggest thing I can hid on it is a small lock blade.

OK, I thought of it. For formal occasions go totally overboard with a French courtier's ginormous skirt with wireframe from the 1700s, and stash an AT4 under it. rotfl.gif
Kagetenshi
Bring back bustles!

~J
Critias
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
And this is my daughter's godmother. Interesting role model.

Yeah, no kiddin'. When I have kids, I want to make sure each and every one of them understands the cops are for protecting them, and they'll never have to even think about doing so themselves.
kzt
Just don't tell them about about the Supreme court case where they decided it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen".

Or these cases.

Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975)
Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y.1968)
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (109 S.Ct. 998, 1989; 489 U.S. 189 (1989))
Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department (901 F.2d 696 9th Cir. 1990))
Zinermon v. Burch (110 S.Ct. 975, 984 1990; 494 U.S. 113 (1990))

But, yeah, other than that, you don't have to plan to protect yourself.
nezumi
I'm pretty sure Critias was being facetious.

That, or he feels his genetic stock would serve him better as cogs in the machine.
Kagetenshi
They're still going to be cogs even if they know the cops won't protect them. It's not until they learn that guns are for killing police, military personnel, and other governmental agents that they will be free.

~J
nezumi
Agents only means law enforcement and the like, right?
Kagetenshi
Not at all—it means those acting on behalf of the government. I would say that it is rather more of a difficult matter of determining when the civilian governmental agents become fair targets than those in law enforcement or the armed forces, but so long as civilian authorities (counting law enforcement as non-civilian for this discussion) ultimately give the orders there must be some point at which they become valid targets.

~J
Kanada Ten
I think this follows one of the topics in here: there was an infomercial advertising "foam girdles" on the box a month or so ago - which made me cringe as the father of a young girl - but one could imagine such with a culvert for a firearm or defense drone of some sort to accessorize that evening dress. (Culvert's probably not the right word here, dimple, perhaps?) Sort of along the bustle idea, only tagline: breath easier by not breathing at all.
kzt
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
ultimately give the orders there must be some point at which they become valid targets.

Look! Black Helicopters!
Critias
QUOTE (kzt)
Just don't tell them about about the Supreme court case where they decided it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen".

Or these cases.

Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975)
Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y.1968)
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (109 S.Ct. 998, 1989; 489 U.S. 189 (1989))
Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department (901 F.2d 696 9th Cir. 1990))
Zinermon v. Burch (110 S.Ct. 975, 984 1990; 494 U.S. 113 (1990))

But, yeah, other than that, you don't have to plan to protect yourself.

For the record, I was being sarcastic. I think it's safe to say I'm somewhere in the top five or ten DSers, were we to ever be ranked, when it comes to taking responsibility for one's personal safety.
nezumi
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Not at all

*whew* *wipes brow*

I don't give orders or enforce anything at all!
Snow_Fox
Don't make me get out my neuralizer
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012