Iron Eagle is one of the greatest movies of the 1980s. It clearly states what we all know in our hearts. A single teenage American could cripple Lybia and kill its President in a dogfight if only he had the guts to steal an F-16, which isn't terribly difficult to do.
The same, I think, applied to Shadowrun. The existence of military equipment guarantees an epic escalation simply because it is guaranteed that the PCs will steal some of it. Any hacker/rigger of high skill could forge himself an ID and a set of orders in a military database, walk onto an airbase, and fly off with a SOTA fighter accompanied by a wing of drones. He could then bomb the drek out of any third-world country that he doesn't like.
The only way to prevent this, other than by GM fiat or table agreement, is to just not have any military hardware at all. Which isn't a bad idea, but also isn't a good one or a realistic one.
Also, I propose that Queen and Twisted Sister should give a +2 dice bonus to any rigger in earshot for all aerial combat actions.
Full Version: Pulling an Iron Eagle
scratch that aerial combat out . . it gives +2 to any rigging, especially if not jumped in but driving by hand with AR . . if i wanna get home quick after work i sit down as close to the bus driver as possible and up the volume on queen and they floor it!
Stahseele, is that because Queen music gets them all pumped up and aggro, or because they want to get as quickly as possible to the station at which you and your music leave the bus?
The characters in a video/movie hearing the same background music as the audience is a recurrrent gag, perhaps best performed in "High Anxiety". Darth Vader has -5 to all Infiltration rolls against anyone who hears and recognizes the "Here Comes Darth Vader" theme music.
Mathias Rust FTW! <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust>
The characters in a video/movie hearing the same background music as the audience is a recurrrent gag, perhaps best performed in "High Anxiety". Darth Vader has -5 to all Infiltration rolls against anyone who hears and recognizes the "Here Comes Darth Vader" theme music.
Mathias Rust FTW! <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust>
because queen fucking rocks! . . and everybody . . (ok, not those pests they call the youth of today) likes to rock some time *g*
i actually made it a little experiment with the same 5 drivers and different styles of music . . i had the best reaction to Temple of Love of the Sisters of Mercy and a close Second to Manowar - Warriors of the World . . followed directly on third place by about every Queen song i tried *g*
i actually made it a little experiment with the same 5 drivers and different styles of music . . i had the best reaction to Temple of Love of the Sisters of Mercy and a close Second to Manowar - Warriors of the World . . followed directly on third place by about every Queen song i tried *g*
...hey even Wayne & Garth rocked out to Bohemian Rhapsody while in the Mirth-Mobile.
...Excellent!
...Excellent!
Queen is well on its way to being voted Best Rock Band of All Time. Deservedly So! 
...dude, I think this is one of the fastest thread derails I've seen.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...dude, I think this is one of the fastest thread derails I've seen. |
Eric Martain's Eyes of the World not only helps a pilot shoot straight, it also reloads your plane's missiles.
well, in an effort to re-rail things, i don't think it's so much a matter of not being able to steal military tech that's stopping people (although it shouldn't be easy, let's face it: difficult stuff is what the runners are hired for. if it was easy, no one would pay their prices, they'd pay a bunch of gangers 10% the amount in experimental drugs and get free field-testing or something)
the thing keeping this from happening is that after you steal the military's toys, they send out their repo men to come take it back. so sure, you might get off the base with a tank or something, but in 10 minutes there will be 10 force 12 spirits inside it, at least one of which will likely possess the tank and/or the people inside. resulting in the military ultimately getting their tank back after the team kills each other off and/or is possessed and then dismantled for spare parts.
the thing keeping this from happening is that after you steal the military's toys, they send out their repo men to come take it back. so sure, you might get off the base with a tank or something, but in 10 minutes there will be 10 force 12 spirits inside it, at least one of which will likely possess the tank and/or the people inside. resulting in the military ultimately getting their tank back after the team kills each other off and/or is possessed and then dismantled for spare parts.
This is what I love about SR. IRL, even if you could steal an F/A-22 (F-16s are so 80s), trying to figure out how to turn it on for most people would be like trying to read Sanskrit. Even pilots, depending on their level of training and familiarity would be at some level of a loss.
Thanks to the simplification of such things as, oh, flight operations--and especially in SR4 where one skill for flying means if you can fly an ultralight, you can fly a F-B Eagle--this isn't actually beyond the realm of possibility so much as something that should happen all the time.
This does explain the little peculiarities such as t-bird riggers and gangers carrying milgrade weaponry.
Thanks to the simplification of such things as, oh, flight operations--and especially in SR4 where one skill for flying means if you can fly an ultralight, you can fly a F-B Eagle--this isn't actually beyond the realm of possibility so much as something that should happen all the time.
This does explain the little peculiarities such as t-bird riggers and gangers carrying milgrade weaponry.
The part that people like to forget about is the cost and effort of keeping one of these puppies running. Typically 10-30:1 maint to flight hours, and large birds cost many thousands per flight hour.
| QUOTE (martindv) |
| This does explain the little peculiarities such as t-bird riggers and gangers carrying milgrade weaponry. |
The difference here is the mindset for designing man portable vs. multi-million dollar vehicles.
Assault rifles, LAW's, mines, etc. are meant to be as simple ans user friendly as humanly possible. When one military decides to arm the locals of a particular country, they don't want to have to spend 6 months teaching them to read first then another 4 months training. Far better to have an oeterpreter answer any questions about the pictograms on the weapon in question and then show them how to use it.
In addition, it depends on who designed the thing. Western stuff tends to be sexier, so it gets mention more often. You can probably be illiterate and do basic maintenance on a T-55 or T-72 but the Abrams is a whole nother beast.
As for stealing an airplane, due to its fly-by-wire system, the F-16 is a pretty good choice. You can be pretty ham fisted with the F-16 and still not run into the ground. You don't have to worry about pulling to hard on the stick and generating excessive Gs or AoA. you don't have to trim. You can't set the engines on fire by moving the throttle around too fast. You don't have to worry about the aircraft reacting differently to the same control inputs depending on what its speed is. You don't have to worry about draining the fuel tanks in a certain order to keep the airplane balanced...
As for stealing an airplane, due to its fly-by-wire system, the F-16 is a pretty good choice. You can be pretty ham fisted with the F-16 and still not run into the ground. You don't have to worry about pulling to hard on the stick and generating excessive Gs or AoA. you don't have to trim. You can't set the engines on fire by moving the throttle around too fast. You don't have to worry about the aircraft reacting differently to the same control inputs depending on what its speed is. You don't have to worry about draining the fuel tanks in a certain order to keep the airplane balanced...
The group I play in once escaped a Lone Star SWAT team by stealing a Doc Wagon HRT's helicopter. We crashed it, though 
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| As for stealing an airplane, due to its fly-by-wire system, the F-16 is a pretty good choice. |
Fly-by-wire is pretty neat. It turns a mediocre pilot into a good pilot.
It also turns a great pilot into a good pilot.
Given the number of mediocre pilots per great pilot, it's still a good gizmo.
In SR4 terms, I'd say it gives +2 dice, but caps skill at 5.
All the blood, it come out of my ear...
Being a good pilot is much more than just wrestling the airplane around the sky.
Being a good pilot is much more than just wrestling the airplane around the sky.
| QUOTE (kzt) |
| The part that people like to forget about is the cost and effort of keeping one of these puppies running. Typically 10-30:1 maint to flight hours, and large birds cost many thousands per flight hour. |
Findley made a big deal about the Azzies' interceptor being designed as a compromise between USAF jets with these insane maintenance times and Russian fighters with almost 1:1 ground:air time in Aztlan.
Clearly flying jet aircraft in the 80s was trivial because I rocked out to MicroProse's "F-15 Strike Eagle" as a fourth grader. Hell, even a fourth grader can do it, so of course a teenager, with his youthful reflexes, can pwn the crotchety president of a country who attempts to dogfight him.
I believe that's why I play inverted in FPS games, by the way, and have a hard time when the game doesn't support inverted controls, like System Shock 1 didn't. Because when I was a little kid one of my formative first-person gaming experiences was a flight simulator.
I believe that's why I play inverted in FPS games, by the way, and have a hard time when the game doesn't support inverted controls, like System Shock 1 didn't. Because when I was a little kid one of my formative first-person gaming experiences was a flight simulator.
Agreement with Bob on that. It takes a lot more than just knowing how to push the stick to become a good pilot. Dogfighting in particular requires a huge amount of awareness and intuition into your environment, and how another pilot not only will, but MIGHT react to what you do. On wrong decision and you go splat.
yep, every good fighter not only knows his own next move, but his opponents reaction to that move and his own reaction to the opponents reaction.
...if you've never flown a plane before, all the fancy control systems in the world won't necessarily help you even be a mediocre pilot.
In my first "real" lesson my instructor demonstrated what 9 out of 10 students did when they come to a turn in a taxiway with rather humurous effect. He yanked the control wheel to the right and the plane kept going straight ahead onto the grass. You steer with either toe brakes or if the plane has one (like a jetliner) a separate tiller. We spent a good portion of that session just doing taxi exercises before even getting off the ground. Basically, a plane does not turn like a car on the ground
In the air it requires a deft touch and one of the first manoeuvres I learned was a clean coordinated bank and turn while keeping the plane level. It is not as easy as it sounds trust me. There was practising stall and spin recoveries & I'll say these were rather frightening the first few times even though we were at a high enough altitude for recovery and I had a trained instructor there who could take control if I felt I was in over my head.
My first landing was a white knuckle affair and that was in a plodding old Cessna 150. Basically a landing is a controlled fall, and there are a lot of factors to be concerned with including airspeed, flap percentages, winds, turbulence, visibility, and other aircraft. It isn't like playing a videogame because there's no reset if you screw up.
The most exciting and frightening time of all is that first solo. It is a big step. You are up there all alone with nobody to guide you, nobody to take the controls if you freeze up. That day I remember getting in the plane with the instructor after preflight and he said he forgot something. After getting out and closing the door he stepped back past the wingtip and motioned for me to start the engine. This was it I was on my own. All those hours came down to this. I was so bloody nervous, I almost forgot to set the mixture properly. for startup.
I have also "flown" a 757/767 simulator (the kind like airline pilots train with) and while my mind told me I was safe on the ground, my senses told me different. Instead of the cool calm approach most professional pilots would have, my reaction was more like: "oh shit! stick shaker (a device linked to the control yoke that forewarns of an impending stall), better get that power level up or I'm going to prang this one bad!". Following the session the instructor actually said I handled things better than most "Sunday pilots" and was one of only a couple who were actually able to "make" the landing (if you could call all that bouncing I did a landing). A big jet, even simulated, is a whole different bird than a two seat Cessna.
Now on to manoeuvres. Even doing aerobatics in a slow moving biplane I experienced serious tunnel vision during pullouts. I can say it is rather disorienting. Riding in a twin seat P-51 (the real thing with the big 12 cyl. Merlin) I had to wear a basic G Suit and still nearly hit blackout several times. At the time I was in prettty good shape as I was cycling some 100+ miles per week including sprint laps.
Military and Professional Aerobatic pilots have to go through a rigourous programme of conditioning so they can withstand the forces of extreme flight. The average Joe off the street would have a rough ride at best in an F-16 or FA-18 going though combat manoeuvres even with a G suit. I have seen stories of news reporters who rode with the Blue Angels or T-Birds. Many said they nearly lost their lunch on the first manoeuvre, and that was doing pretty tame stuff compared to what a real fighter pilot in a dogfight would undergo.
So before you set down your copy of F-22 Raptor and think about "crossing into the blue", I'd stay in that armchair with your Thrustmaster™ control system and bottle of Coke. The Real Thing is a lot tougher than you think.
In my first "real" lesson my instructor demonstrated what 9 out of 10 students did when they come to a turn in a taxiway with rather humurous effect. He yanked the control wheel to the right and the plane kept going straight ahead onto the grass. You steer with either toe brakes or if the plane has one (like a jetliner) a separate tiller. We spent a good portion of that session just doing taxi exercises before even getting off the ground. Basically, a plane does not turn like a car on the ground
In the air it requires a deft touch and one of the first manoeuvres I learned was a clean coordinated bank and turn while keeping the plane level. It is not as easy as it sounds trust me. There was practising stall and spin recoveries & I'll say these were rather frightening the first few times even though we were at a high enough altitude for recovery and I had a trained instructor there who could take control if I felt I was in over my head.
My first landing was a white knuckle affair and that was in a plodding old Cessna 150. Basically a landing is a controlled fall, and there are a lot of factors to be concerned with including airspeed, flap percentages, winds, turbulence, visibility, and other aircraft. It isn't like playing a videogame because there's no reset if you screw up.
The most exciting and frightening time of all is that first solo. It is a big step. You are up there all alone with nobody to guide you, nobody to take the controls if you freeze up. That day I remember getting in the plane with the instructor after preflight and he said he forgot something. After getting out and closing the door he stepped back past the wingtip and motioned for me to start the engine. This was it I was on my own. All those hours came down to this. I was so bloody nervous, I almost forgot to set the mixture properly. for startup.
I have also "flown" a 757/767 simulator (the kind like airline pilots train with) and while my mind told me I was safe on the ground, my senses told me different. Instead of the cool calm approach most professional pilots would have, my reaction was more like: "oh shit! stick shaker (a device linked to the control yoke that forewarns of an impending stall), better get that power level up or I'm going to prang this one bad!". Following the session the instructor actually said I handled things better than most "Sunday pilots" and was one of only a couple who were actually able to "make" the landing (if you could call all that bouncing I did a landing). A big jet, even simulated, is a whole different bird than a two seat Cessna.
Now on to manoeuvres. Even doing aerobatics in a slow moving biplane I experienced serious tunnel vision during pullouts. I can say it is rather disorienting. Riding in a twin seat P-51 (the real thing with the big 12 cyl. Merlin) I had to wear a basic G Suit and still nearly hit blackout several times. At the time I was in prettty good shape as I was cycling some 100+ miles per week including sprint laps.
Military and Professional Aerobatic pilots have to go through a rigourous programme of conditioning so they can withstand the forces of extreme flight. The average Joe off the street would have a rough ride at best in an F-16 or FA-18 going though combat manoeuvres even with a G suit. I have seen stories of news reporters who rode with the Blue Angels or T-Birds. Many said they nearly lost their lunch on the first manoeuvre, and that was doing pretty tame stuff compared to what a real fighter pilot in a dogfight would undergo.
So before you set down your copy of F-22 Raptor and think about "crossing into the blue", I'd stay in that armchair with your Thrustmaster™ control system and bottle of Coke. The Real Thing is a lot tougher than you think.
KK: That was fascinating. The wealth of knowledge in this place never stops amazing me.
Cheers,
-Khadim.
| QUOTE ("Kyoto Kid") |
| Riding in a twin seat P-51 (the real thing with the big 12 cyl. Merlin)... |
You are now my hero. Complete envy from my end. Love that plane.
Damn, looking at the Kid's list, mine is pretty slim. Solo flew a Cessna 180, 3 different types of gliders (those are by far the most fun for me), and piloted simulators for a C-130, F4 Phantom and F-16. What struck me as odd for myself is that despite my video game playing and such, I had a lot of trouble piloting the Fly-By-Wire simulators. Center stick was a snap for me, but the fly-by-wire, stick on the right side of cockpit configuration always threw me for a loop.
But I completely second everything he said. One plane to the next is a completely different beast, and it's perfectly easy to screw up even minor things that can kill you if you don't know what you're doing.
Damnit, now I miss flying. I'm gonna have to start saving cash again to get re-certified.
EDIT: Funny thing for me Kyoto, I got used to the pedals on the various planes very quickly, but after a week of flying planes, I couldn't drive properly. Kept trying to use my feet to steer. Let me tell you, that was fun for a few days. LOL
| QUOTE (Jhaiisiin) |
| Funny thing for me Kyoto, I got used to the pedals on the various planes very quickly, but after a week of flying planes, I couldn't drive properly. Kept trying to use my feet to steer. Let me tell you, that was fun for a few days. LOL |
...I know that. I had a nasty habit of bombing down the highway at 80 - 90 from the airport after a lesson because my speed sense was so distorted. I also would find myself looking for the mixture and throttle controls from time to time after belting in. My instructor told me these were common occurrences among new students.
@kansser, Thanks. Wanted people to understand just what really is involved that both Hollywierd and games often gloss over (like being able to ignite Jet-A with a Zippo). But hey, that's entertainment I guess.
Glad I wasn't the only one then.
Well, now I feel like a jackass going back to talking about video games... but I'm used to it.
The most fun I've had playing a flight simulator was one that came out around '90, for a Soviet Fighter/Bomber called the SU-25 Frogfoot. It was a reasonably detailed flight simulator, but the most complicated part of it was the navigation which I never mastered. The only two missions I could do were blowing up a bridge (since I could find the river, and once I found the river I could follow it to the bridge), and defending the airstrip (since you took off and started getting attacked, so there was no navigating to be done).
The bridge mission was fun because I never could master the speed/distance/altitude calculation to tell me when to drop my bombs. I mean, the plane was supposed to be a few hundred feet up, going a few hundred miles an hour, and the bridge was 5 or 10 meters wide. (Approaching from the river meant my bombing run was always perpendicular to the river, if I broke off from the river and tried to come back around parallel to the bridge, I'd never find it again.) Even using the "retarded" bombs that had fins to slow their airspeed and make their fall more direct, I couldn't do it. The only way I could hit the bridge was to come in so low that I was practically scraping the streetlamps as I went by. An altitude of about 30' I could work with. (At that altitude, it didn't matter if you used retarded bombs or not.) On particular mission I remember because I came in too low; I was concentrating on lining up and I didn't notice until the last second that I was actually level with the bridge. I pulled up hard, nailed the spacebar (which dropped the bombs, I'm assuming the actual SU-25 Frogfoot used a different configuration, but maybe not) and dropped the bombs from about 5' up. I noticed that from that altitude, you could see the brickwork of the bridge clearly, which I thought was a nice touch on the part of the programmers. (I mean, the bridge was usually just a thin grey line intersecting a large blue line. This was early 90's graphics and given the amount of text the manual gave to calculating how to drop bombs, it didn't seem like they'd think many people would get that close.) I assume my plane didn't blow up only because the game wasn't programmed to accept planes being in range of their own bomb detonations. (I don't think the bombs actually did damage, I think it was just a "you hit or you didn't" type of thing.)
The airfield defense was a fun one, because it was just dogfighting. American planes were attacking, you scrambled, and they kept sending planes until you died. If there was a way to win (and the game said there wasn't), I never found it. One particular game, after I had mastered contact-range bombing runs, I was doing pretty well shooting down the US F-16's. You only had so many air-to-air missiles, but I had finally gotten the hang of leading enemy aircraft with my cannons. You had a radar screen, so there was a lot of lining up the dots and firing. And as I was coming in on the tail of a wounded F-16 to finish it off, another plane zipped by me going the other way, with nothing on the radar except the plane I was targeting. I only caught a glimpse of it, but I could see it was a solid black wedge, completely alien to the grey F-16's I had been dueling. I was in a dogfight with an unknown number of F-117 stealth fighters.
I fought the good fight, but since I had no way to track them, this meant flying in tight circles until I glimpsed something, trying to orientate on it and fire off a few shots before it broke contact, all the while I would get missile-locked or shot from nowhere. I got pretty well plastered, and by that point my little plane icon was lit up like a Christmas tree. (I'm assuming the actual SU-25 Frogfoot used a different system, but maybe not.) Having shot down all the F-16's (maybe 4 of them), and not being able to engage the F-117's at all (I think I have that name right), I decided to pack it in. I was still over my airfield, so I attempted an abbreviated landing. Lining up on the airstrip my heading and airspeed stabilized, and the stealth fighters shot the crap out of me. I touched down on the tarmac with one engine red and the other destroyed, and the rest of my plane either orange or red. Rolled to a stop, the level ended, and I decided it was time to welcome our new glorious capitalist masters.
Good times. That game came out about the same time as an old combat racing game called DeathTrack, if they gives you a frame of reference.
The most fun I've had playing a flight simulator was one that came out around '90, for a Soviet Fighter/Bomber called the SU-25 Frogfoot. It was a reasonably detailed flight simulator, but the most complicated part of it was the navigation which I never mastered. The only two missions I could do were blowing up a bridge (since I could find the river, and once I found the river I could follow it to the bridge), and defending the airstrip (since you took off and started getting attacked, so there was no navigating to be done).
The bridge mission was fun because I never could master the speed/distance/altitude calculation to tell me when to drop my bombs. I mean, the plane was supposed to be a few hundred feet up, going a few hundred miles an hour, and the bridge was 5 or 10 meters wide. (Approaching from the river meant my bombing run was always perpendicular to the river, if I broke off from the river and tried to come back around parallel to the bridge, I'd never find it again.) Even using the "retarded" bombs that had fins to slow their airspeed and make their fall more direct, I couldn't do it. The only way I could hit the bridge was to come in so low that I was practically scraping the streetlamps as I went by. An altitude of about 30' I could work with. (At that altitude, it didn't matter if you used retarded bombs or not.) On particular mission I remember because I came in too low; I was concentrating on lining up and I didn't notice until the last second that I was actually level with the bridge. I pulled up hard, nailed the spacebar (which dropped the bombs, I'm assuming the actual SU-25 Frogfoot used a different configuration, but maybe not) and dropped the bombs from about 5' up. I noticed that from that altitude, you could see the brickwork of the bridge clearly, which I thought was a nice touch on the part of the programmers. (I mean, the bridge was usually just a thin grey line intersecting a large blue line. This was early 90's graphics and given the amount of text the manual gave to calculating how to drop bombs, it didn't seem like they'd think many people would get that close.) I assume my plane didn't blow up only because the game wasn't programmed to accept planes being in range of their own bomb detonations. (I don't think the bombs actually did damage, I think it was just a "you hit or you didn't" type of thing.)
The airfield defense was a fun one, because it was just dogfighting. American planes were attacking, you scrambled, and they kept sending planes until you died. If there was a way to win (and the game said there wasn't), I never found it. One particular game, after I had mastered contact-range bombing runs, I was doing pretty well shooting down the US F-16's. You only had so many air-to-air missiles, but I had finally gotten the hang of leading enemy aircraft with my cannons. You had a radar screen, so there was a lot of lining up the dots and firing. And as I was coming in on the tail of a wounded F-16 to finish it off, another plane zipped by me going the other way, with nothing on the radar except the plane I was targeting. I only caught a glimpse of it, but I could see it was a solid black wedge, completely alien to the grey F-16's I had been dueling. I was in a dogfight with an unknown number of F-117 stealth fighters.
I fought the good fight, but since I had no way to track them, this meant flying in tight circles until I glimpsed something, trying to orientate on it and fire off a few shots before it broke contact, all the while I would get missile-locked or shot from nowhere. I got pretty well plastered, and by that point my little plane icon was lit up like a Christmas tree. (I'm assuming the actual SU-25 Frogfoot used a different system, but maybe not.) Having shot down all the F-16's (maybe 4 of them), and not being able to engage the F-117's at all (I think I have that name right), I decided to pack it in. I was still over my airfield, so I attempted an abbreviated landing. Lining up on the airstrip my heading and airspeed stabilized, and the stealth fighters shot the crap out of me. I touched down on the tarmac with one engine red and the other destroyed, and the rest of my plane either orange or red. Rolled to a stop, the level ended, and I decided it was time to welcome our new glorious capitalist masters.
Good times. That game came out about the same time as an old combat racing game called DeathTrack, if they gives you a frame of reference.
Sounds like despite the roadblocks you ran into, you really enjoyed it. And I can just imagine getting freaked out as a F-117 (you were right on that, btw) streaked by. At that point, you're all wits and skill to survive those kind of fights, and they don't have to be close. Damned missiles can hit you from a decent range.
Though in reality, you would have had the tiniest radar blip anytime they opened their bays to fire missiles your way. Wouldn't have been much, but at least you'd have some warning of impending doom. Hooray for radar bounce.
Though in reality, you would have had the tiniest radar blip anytime they opened their bays to fire missiles your way. Wouldn't have been much, but at least you'd have some warning of impending doom. Hooray for radar bounce.
...speaking of Russian aircraft simulations, Several programmers are working on a Tupolev TU-114 mod (check out U-Tube). The TU-114 was a civilian airliner (well as much as you could call it "civilian" in the old Soviet days) that was designed off of the TU-97 bomber platform. Like the Bear, it employed four sets of counter rotating props on turboshafts with swept wings and tail surfaces. Until the 747 took to the air in the late 60s, the TU-114 had the distinction of being the largest airliner ever built (in overall size). It also boasted a speed that nearly matched the pure jet 707 and a range capable of flying Non Stop from Moscow to New York. Here is a very rare photo of this behemoth at old Idlewild (now JFK) when it was used by Nikita Khrushchev for his visit to the US in 1959.
TU-114 at Idlewild
(you'll have to scroll down a little)
The size is very apparent with the Pan Am service truck (which could literally be driven underneath) in the foreground and the tail of the Constellation at the right.
...pulling an Iron Eagle with this baby could very wall have started (in Major Kong's words from Dr. Strangelove) "all out nuclear confrontation toe to toe with the Russkies."
However, I'd still love to get at the controls of this beastie even if it is only through Flight Simulator
[/derail]
TU-114 at Idlewild
(you'll have to scroll down a little)
The size is very apparent with the Pan Am service truck (which could literally be driven underneath) in the foreground and the tail of the Constellation at the right.
...pulling an Iron Eagle with this baby could very wall have started (in Major Kong's words from Dr. Strangelove) "all out nuclear confrontation toe to toe with the Russkies."
However, I'd still love to get at the controls of this beastie even if it is only through Flight Simulator
[/derail]
For my 2 nuyen's worth I always found IL-2 Sturmovik to be a really detailed (and yet fun) combat flight simulator. I have had the chance to play around in one of the real F-16 flight sims though and the whole time I was thinking to myself "I wish this was an F-15E". I couldn't stand the Fly-by-Wire system, and I will never give a character move-by-wire for that very reason, screw the essence cost.
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) |
| I have had the chance to play around in one of the real F-16 flight sims though and the whole time I was thinking to myself "I wish this was an F-15E". I couldn't stand the Fly-by-Wire system, and I will never give a character move-by-wire for that very reason, screw the essence cost. |
...just one of the reasons I don't feel comfortable flying on the newer Airbus aircraft - A-320 and later (the other is that they ride "rougher" in turbulence than Boeings). The computer is in more control of the plane than the pilots and I deal with computers on a daily basis.
Basically Fly by Wire is most useful when there are inherent instability issues in the design (such as the F-117 nighthawk or B-2). In a conventional transport it really is kind of a waste unless it is designed for extreme ops like flying into combat zones or hostile environments.
At least Boeing jets (so far) still have mechanical redundancy. If the FBW system in an A-340 goes out, there isn't much the pilots can do as they are unable to apply enough physical pressure to the "Nintendo" styled joystick to have an affect the plane's flight controls. At least in a Boeing the flight crew can muscle the control yoke and rudder pedals.
...and as fighters go from a pilot's perspective, I'll take a P-51 over an F-16/FA-18 any day. The 51 was literally a race car with wings.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| The 51 was literally a race car with wings. |
Was it? Was it literally a race car with wings?
/pet peeve
Correction: "The P-51 was like a race car with wings."
| QUOTE (Jhaiisiin) |
| Correction: "The P-51 was like a race car with wings." |
Sorry, I'm not in the cuddliest of moods today, so I apologize to everyone in advance if I'm an ass. *shrug* I'll try to watch that.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 8 2008, 02:32 PM) | ||
Was it? Was it literally a race car with wings? /pet peeve |
Yes; it was a Rolls-Royce, in fact.
...If you've flown in one I think you'd agree with my "literary faux pas". But, let's not get hung up on a semantics derail as I've seen happen to other threads.
As a matter of fact, before the advent of gas turbines in the 90s, the engines of choice for hydroplanes were the Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin V1650 and the Allison V1710 (which powered the P-38, P-39, & P-40). The P-51 also remains one of the more popular planes in Unlimited Air racing circles. Dago Red (a modified P-51) holds the all time piston engine speed record of 507.1 mph set at the Reno Nationals in 2006 (the P-51 I rode is was also modified for air racing as well). Yeah, in this case, "race car with wings" is appropriate...
[edit]
...oh and hyz, thanks....
As a matter of fact, before the advent of gas turbines in the 90s, the engines of choice for hydroplanes were the Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin V1650 and the Allison V1710 (which powered the P-38, P-39, & P-40). The P-51 also remains one of the more popular planes in Unlimited Air racing circles. Dago Red (a modified P-51) holds the all time piston engine speed record of 507.1 mph set at the Reno Nationals in 2006 (the P-51 I rode is was also modified for air racing as well). Yeah, in this case, "race car with wings" is appropriate...
[edit]
...oh and hyz, thanks....
edit: screw it. I'm just being a jerk anyway, sorry about the derail.
edited: multiple times for language
edited: multiple times for language
...no prob. I've become fairly vehement at times myself, as in my responses to the Momhammer and Orbital Movement threads.
[/derail]
[/derail]
I remember a James Bond movie where they put wings on a car and flew it... Moonraker maybe. Nope, a quick check of Wikipedia says it was The Man with the Golden Gun and it was an AMC Matador. (I was thinking it was a Chevelle, but close enough.) Years ago I saw a special on the special effects of James Bond movies, and that one stands out because the corkscrew ramp was the first stunt to use computer modelling (and the stuntman nailed it on the first take, so the modelling must have been okay), and the flying car which was apparently real. I've heard the one used in the movie was a model, but it was based on a real design. (Apparently the real one they had could only fly about 500 meters, so a model had to be used.)
Looking that up, I came across The Mizar, a flying car built out of a Pinto of all things. Its almost hard to believe the creator died when it crashed.
Anyhoo, literally flying cars.
Looking that up, I came across The Mizar, a flying car built out of a Pinto of all things. Its almost hard to believe the creator died when it crashed.
Anyhoo, literally flying cars.
James Bond was in "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"? Wow.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| @kansser, Thanks. |
That's an unfortunate typo, but you're welcome. All this talk of flying planes suddenly makes me see how exhilerating it must be to be able to do that.
Had never really felt that appeal before.
-K.
| QUOTE (Riley37) |
| James Bond was in "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"? Wow. |
...no, but there is a connection there. Ian Flemming was the author of the actual story which he originally wrote for his son. Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was actually a collection of stories about the magical flying car written by Flemming in 1961 and published three years later as a novel. In 1968 the famous musical film version was released which by the way was produced by Albert Broccoli who was best known for bringing Fleming's Bond stories to the screen. He was inspired to produce the film after his wife Dana bought the original (and yes there was a real one) Chitty Bang Bang racing car at a Sotheby's auction.
The real car originally belonged to Count Louis Vorrow Zborowksi. All Four of the Chitty racing cars were surprisingly not entirely of British make, each having been built on a Mercedes chassis, the first three having Maybach and Benz motors. The last version used a 450 HP V-12 Liberty aero engine and in a 1926 speed run was clocked at an astounding 171 mph.
Even more interesting all of the Count's racers were painted in a colour referred to as "Racing Green", which has since been accepted as the "standard" colour (known in automotive circles now as British Racing Green) for classic British racing cars. The actual name for the cars is rumoured to have come from a bawdy World War I song rather than the sound the car made.
Besides the book and film there was also a theatrical musical created by Albert Broccoli's daughter Barbara in 2002 which is on tour through the summer of this year.
..sorry for the [derail] but this was one of my favourite stories when I was growing up.
...oh and knasser, many apologies. I need to stick to tea instead of espresso.
I love Dumpshock!
Thanks KK.
Thanks KK.
...my pleasure.
BTW, one of my favourite shows is Connections.
BTW, one of my favourite shows is Connections.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||
...no, but there is a connection there. Ian Flemming was the author of the actual story which he originally wrote for his son. Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was actually a collection of stories about the magical flying car written by Flemming in 1961 and published three years later as a novel. In 1968 the famous musical film version was released which by the way was produced by Albert Broccoli who was best known for bringing Fleming's Bond stories to the screen. He was inspired to produce the film after his wife Dana bought the original (and yes there was a real one) Chitty Bang Bang racing car at a Sotheby's auction. The real car originally belonged to Count Louis Vorrow Zborowksi. All Four of the Chitty racing cars were surprisingly not entirely of British make, each having been built on a Mercedes chassis, the first three having Maybach and Benz motors. The last version used a 450 HP V-12 Liberty aero engine and in a 1926 speed run was clocked at an astounding 171 mph. Even more interesting all of the Count's racers were painted in a colour referred to as "Racing Green", which has since been accepted as the "standard" colour (known in automotive circles now as British Racing Green) for classic British racing cars. The actual name for the cars is rumoured to have come from a bawdy World War I song rather than the sound the car made. Besides the book and film there was also a theatrical musical created by Albert Broccoli's daughter Barbara in 2002 which is on tour through the summer of this year. ..sorry for the [derail] but this was one of my favourite stories when I was growing up. ...oh and knasser, many apologies. I need to stick to tea instead of espresso. |
Someone should make a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie with a James Bond cameo.
Also, it's funny when you try to say "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" with a French accent. Or so my middle school French teacher claimed.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...If you've flown in one I think you'd agree with my "literary faux pas". But, let's not get hung up on a semantics derail as I've seen happen to other threads. As a matter of fact, before the advent of gas turbines in the 90s, the engines of choice for hydroplanes were the Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin V1650 and the Allison V1710 (which powered the P-38, P-39, & P-40). The P-51 also remains one of the more popular planes in Unlimited Air racing circles. Dago Red (a modified P-51) holds the all time piston engine speed record of 507.1 mph set at the Reno Nationals in 2006 (the P-51 I rode is was also modified for air racing as well). Yeah, in this case, "race car with wings" is appropriate... [edit] ...oh and hyz, thanks.... |
Mmm... P-38, now there is a plane I would love to take a ride in... provided we didn't make any dives.
...back to the OP (and yes guilty as charged for all the [derail]s this thread). In the first run of my RiS campaign the PCs made off with an Antonov AN335 ( the largest plane in the awakened world - yep the Russkies still like makin' em big). With help from the team's decker, they basically pulled a "Clint" from Firefox taking out, then posing as the original crew for a flight to ferry an undisclosed cargo back to Moscow. Once out of Serbian airspace, they turned west landing in Brussels with a story that they were defectors flying Croatian refugees and liberated POWs to freedom. The act went as far as having buses and vans pull up to the planes to make it appear like they were shuttling people to a hangar.
...and, the real payload?
Two experimental drones with an exotic propulsion system that were stolen during trials in the Sahara and which ended up in Serbian/Russian hands.
...the only problem, now they had this huge and rather distinctive Russian cargo jet to dispose of.
...and, the real payload?
Two experimental drones with an exotic propulsion system that were stolen during trials in the Sahara and which ended up in Serbian/Russian hands.
...the only problem, now they had this huge and rather distinctive Russian cargo jet to dispose of.
Dispose of!? They should take it to Cape Suzette and start an air freight business.
You just walk away. There is no good way to fence that. And no group of shadowrunners is gong to live to enjoy the money if they hang around it for long.
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