Ok now I've seen the threads about the dikoted, Cyberzombie, vampire, ninja armed with a silvergun, and the new rules include the cyber genitals we've joked about for years, one imagines the editor/line designer saying "OK it's been 19 years I give up, let 'm have it." but what do you think is the most useless cyber/bioware in the books and why?

I don't know anyone who's used the hand magnets, especially not like in the pic of the guy, spider man like, hanging on a train or the foot pitons to anchor yourself to the floor-though they do make a hold out weapon.

But I got to go with the cyber tail. not because of it's limited game use-I so do not want to know what you guy are doing with a cyber one eyed worm-but for role playing. it pretty much says 'shadowrunner here' in big chrome letters and even in the post SURGE world you stand out. Clothes ALL have to be tailored for you, you can't go to an entire grade of neighborhood-try hiding that under a tux or LBD- and sitting in a freaking car is nearly impossible.

Other than a really cool picture in the book, did anyone think this was a good idea?

If it had been retractable or at least prehensile then it would be useful.

For my money it's the Single Cyber eye. Sure you get some flavor of only replacing one eye and it actually makes the eye-drone potentially useful, but really, is it necessary?

Wired Reflexes . . granted they add some speed, but they are too expansive to be usefull for anyone who ants to be anything besides fast . . ok so it is compatible with VCR . . but put both VCR and Wired Reflexes into your body and there's nothing left of you most of the time. . . and yes, the magnetic hands are fun stuff to have ^^
you can actually do the jedi trick about getting your weapon into your hand from a short distance away if you prepare it *g*
other than that . . try to get a weapon out of the hand of a troll with STR16 and those things in the hands . . makes a whopping 24 STR to hold on to anything metallic O.o and one COULD stretch that to mean that you can actually get the third point of recoil compensation from strength, if you're supplying the GM with candy ^^

The cyberhorns. A reach -1 weapon that isn't even as concealed as cyberfangs. I can think of good uses for everything everyone's mentioned thus far, and would be sad to see any of them go, but I've never even had a neat idea that involved cyberhorns in an important way.

~J

Tooth compartment. There is just nothing small enough and useful to be hidden.

Well, i used to use it to hide a data chip back in the sr3 days

Since horns deal (STR)M damage, their only advantage over the standard human fist is that they deal Physical damage, which isn't nothing because of the existence of pain editors and stimpatches, but since the point of Reach gets lost (two points for Trolls, effectively), I'm going to have to say that it's still worse than the open hand. It's not like you can share the skill with something else, either, because cyberhorns use cyber-implant combat and if you've got a different cyber-implant weapon you should be using that instead.

~J

as far as i understand they are meant as a last resort weapon . . or in the case of fangs as an assassination weapon for S&M lovers . .
and as for the skill . . heck, defaulting to unarmed combat would only be a +2 modifier, so i most often go that way . . if i ain't going the whole nine yards of someone who is full with cyber-implant weapons *g*

Eyeguns and eye datajacks. I can't imagine a use for an eyegun because they have eyedarts which take away the I use Nacroject™ on it angle. The datajack means you have to stick the thing into your eye which means you lose vision in that eye and if someone sees you they will at best think you are an oddball.

Datajacks are so common it really doesn't matter. Basically everyone has one, so what's the point of trying to hide it? If you really want to hide a datajack you can always get a fingertip compartment and have a datajack installed in it for no additional essense cost iirc.

Just go subdermal.

Yeah, Eye-Guns and Oral-Weapons more or less are useless . . aside from the variation of an Dart with Gamma Scopolamine *g*
Even Trolls will be hard pressed to roll the 8 needed 10's to completely resist the Power of ZZZZ's coming to get them ^^

The Hand Blade. It's a sodding underbarrel bayonet for my hand. Can anyone honestly say they bought one?

yes, once an not retractable one . . but that was mainly for show and fixed onto replaceable cyberhand together with not retractable Handrazors for . . interrogation-purposes *g*

The SR3 and earlier Cranial Cyberdecks were completely lame (especially in Shadowtech). Instead of setting your entire essence on fire you could spend a lot less money and get your cyberdeck made really small and then carry it in a body compartment. It's even easier to upgrade because it's not in your head.

So for less money and less essence you could get a better internal deck using different rules. What the advantage of the cranial deck was supposed to be was always completely lost on me. Why anyone would scoop out parts of their brain to get the benefits of something they could get from draining parts of their peritoneal cavity is something that the world may never know.

-Frank

main disadvantage of built in cyber-deck?
no way to pull the plug if needed be *g*
also we just did with cyberdecks what the books did with rigger decks and made them available as built into cyberlimbs . . where would i find those rules that allow one to make the deck as small as an pocket secretary or something like that you are speaking about ? O.o
Our Decker(s) would love something like that *g*

There are rules for miniaturization in one of the SR3 supplements, but I can't recall exactly which one.

*eyes his stack of SR3 stuff vary and sighs* <.<

Well, there's the rules for improving Concealability on page 291 of the (SR3) Core Rulebook. Then there is some more rules on downsizing equipment in the spook section of SotA:'64. Might be a couple of good places to start.

yes, excellent places to start, thank you ^^

...you not only can downsize but also disguise a piece of gear to look like a common everyday object. Had a character (an fallen angel of the Seraphim) with all sorts of cute little disguised toys from a microtransciver necklace, a cigarette holder that was a single shot microdart tagger blowgun, to a PDA that was actually a sequencer. How James Bond-ish you want to get is pretty much up to your imagination (within the framework of the rules of course).

There is a table of concealbility of normal items that is a useful guide on p 34.

never heard of that implant to be honest O.o
as for cyber-implant weapons . . Spurs with dikote are superior in the arms of a Troll when not using the Canon Companion Close Combat rules for 2 Weapons *g*
BBB says: PN=STR+(STR/2) . . so Strength of 16=16+( 16/2=8 )=24M, with Dikote 26S

..always wanted to write up a decker with an interface spur like Robocop. The only thing they would have needed one of those ridiculous cranial cyberdecks.

Cyber-Limb and Deck in there like Rigger-Deck

...yeah, that'd work.

Just saw the film last night again, much better ending than the football game earlier.

that was one of the house-rules in our group . . basically, if you wanted it in, you got it into your arm . . ok, not things like foor anchor but basically everything else without any limits *g* including cranial cyber-decks . . of course you had to put in DNI for some pieces of cyber that you wanted in there . . for example the cyberdeck needed an dedicated DNI, and the pocket secretary needed it's own DNI and so on ^^

The shutting-down-the-reflexes cyberware is the RAS Override. Generally added for otaku, IIRC. Largely useful as a cranial bomb type involuntary implant for those who don't want to blow their minion's head off.

I agree that the Handblade is probably (stats only) the best implanted weapon because of the power increase. It's generally the one I take when I'm getting a cyber implant weapon for a character.

My vote for most useless implant is the Adrenal Gland. Sure you get a temporary (hefty but not exceptional) bonus but for god's sake who wants that with deadly stun immediately thereafter?

Trolls, Orcs, Dwarves, in that Order *g*
add in this other Gadget that does not let you feel Stun-Damage and you're home free to be awesome for hours on end ^^

But you've still suffered the stun damage, so whilst you don't feel it until other damage overflows you up to deadly physical, it is massively not worth the (rather limited) bonuses it does provide. Even combined with a trauma damper to lessen the impact of the stun damage, it's still deadly stun damage for no really worthwhile result. Also, it's pretty costly for the Bio Index for what it actually achieves.

ok, i fold *g*

RAS Override. Thankee much, that's the useless bit of metal and optic chips I was thinking of. Although I do think the Adrenal Gland is rather useless as well.

And Stahlsteele, Handblades on that same Troll go like this:

BBB Rules: 16 (Strength) + 8 (half Strength) + 3 (Handblade) + 1 (Dikote) = 28M. Trust me, you'll stage it up just fine, and no one, and I mean no one, will stage it down (16 points of Impact armor is still resisting Power 12). Then again, I suppose it's going to be rather hard to stage down 25S too (as I recall, Dikote is only +1 Power).

CC Rules: 16 (Strength) + 3 (Handblade) + 1 (Dikote) = 20M, and you've got 12 dice to stage it up with (6 Skill + 1 Reflex Recorder + 1 Enhanced Articulation + 3 Half Off-Hand Skill + 1 Half Off-Hand Skill Modifiers). It gets even more ridiculous with a Cybered Adept.

Of course, that's overkill in most cases, and not what this thread is about in any case. I just had to defend the Handblade.

Has anyone ever actually purchased the "Kid Stealth" cyberlegs?

For that matter, has any character made extensive use of a cyberlimb?

-Siege

I think cyber limbs in general were seen as big in 1st ed and that whole cyberpunk imagry of the late 1980's but with tech advancments and bioware they have become passe. bioware like augmentation and tone are cheaper and less invasive than limbs.

I hadn't thought of it this way, but none of my group have had cyber limbs-except as replacments for severe damage, so seeing someone with limbs now might be seen as an "old timer" or even retro.

Its the cyberpunk pace of SOTA. Very Gibson. Kinda sucks for gameing though. Little to SLA.

I don't remember ever having anyone in any local game (3rd or 4th) using a cyberlimb.

O.o
for the first time, limbs are actually playable in 4th . . probably not many people who really realized that *g*
they may think:"yeah, the rules are actually making them usefull" but they still feel:"too expansive and useless"
something i sorely missed in 3rd was the part about you being able to adjust the level of sensory sensations you get from said limbs . . read braille or put your arm into a pot of steaming hot water . . then through the pot and then through the stove it's standing on without feeling any kind of discomfort *g*