Ok, Arsenal is out, and I'm a happy rigger, but there's a fly in the ointment.
A lot of the modifications that I'd like to do to my drones, vehicles, and weapons require a facility. Obviously, at 100,000 Nuyen a pop, that's a no-go. Since there are no rules for renting facility time, and no rules for paying others to do the work for you, what's a Missions character to do? Any official word, or is it GM discretion?
Thanks,
Robert (aka Spanner)
Full Version: Renting Time in a Facility...
I'd say right now it's GM's discretion, if it were to be allowed at all.
In my opinion as GM, you'd need a contact that owns said facility, and they'd have to be of a Connection Rating to warrant such an important piece of gear (at least a 4, though I'd say 5 or 6), and a high enough Loyalty that they're not going to rat you out (again, at least a 4) for this work. Owning a facility makes someone pretty important, and as facilities are pretty immobile, makes them very easy to pin down by the various authorities and other organizations.
As far as getting the work done, you need -another- contact (the first one just OWNS the facility, you think he works there too? guess again) like a Shadow Mechanic. Your choice as to Loyalty, Connection at least a 3. A higher Loyalty, obviously, isn't going to get you sold out.
As far as workmen's rates go, I look at Lifestyle. A standard work day is 8 hours. You figure out how long the task is going to take and divide that number by 8 -- that's how long, in work days. You then figure that a decent mechanic is going to live a Medium lifestyle, so divide a month of Medium lifestyle by the number of days, and that's the Base Amount you need to pay them. The worker is going to settle for no less, and is going to want more, as this is probably highly illegal and could land them in seriously hot water. This is where having a Mechanic with a high Loyalty really counts. I don't know what rules mechanic I'd use to figure out how much the contact charges you in the end, but it'll probably be some form of Etiquette or Negotiation Test.
As far as rental costs go, you take the number of work days figured as above, and then have to pay a similar fee to the owner of the facility. Except now, an owner of said facility isn't some 9-to-5 schlub -- he's a business owner, and a fairly important one. He lives a High lifestyle, and he's not going to be happy about tying up his facility with your illegal modifications (and having to keep everyone else, who uses said facility, in the dark). So not only do you have to pay to rent the facility, but you also have to pay to keep him happy. Negotiating the rental fee is a standard Negotiation test, but keeping him happy is a Bribe test. Both payments are the same standard base cost (10,000 nY / number of work days), but here, you can potentially lower the price below base... after all, the owner still has other users of the facility, and there are tricks that he can pull to let that happen (like letting you & your shadow mechanic work at night).
A worker will work more than 8 hours in a day; you just have to pay them overtime for anything worked over 8 hours. (You are not a corporation; people who work for you are not on salary.) If you want the job done faster, figure that overtime is going to cost you double (for simplicity). So, 8 hours + 4 overtime hours roughly doubles the per-day cost. Anything more than 4 hours of overtime a day is counter-productive, as then the worker gets tired, starts making mistakes, and that bites into the time costs, and we don't need to be getting that detailed.)
So, you can get the job done quicker if you're willing to pay double. Rental rates don't change, but as you're using less days, you're renting for less time.
Okay, that sounds really complicated, but once you get it down it's pretty simple, and works for so many other situations (like when you want to pay a chauffeur for your limousine). This doesn't count for renting security or mercenaries, though. First, getting shot at calls for a MUCH higher pay rate, and second... this game isn't about fielding your own private army to do your jobs.
-Deacon
EDIT: Geez, I need to write books if I'm going to do this sort of long-winded reply...
In my opinion as GM, you'd need a contact that owns said facility, and they'd have to be of a Connection Rating to warrant such an important piece of gear (at least a 4, though I'd say 5 or 6), and a high enough Loyalty that they're not going to rat you out (again, at least a 4) for this work. Owning a facility makes someone pretty important, and as facilities are pretty immobile, makes them very easy to pin down by the various authorities and other organizations.
As far as getting the work done, you need -another- contact (the first one just OWNS the facility, you think he works there too? guess again) like a Shadow Mechanic. Your choice as to Loyalty, Connection at least a 3. A higher Loyalty, obviously, isn't going to get you sold out.
As far as workmen's rates go, I look at Lifestyle. A standard work day is 8 hours. You figure out how long the task is going to take and divide that number by 8 -- that's how long, in work days. You then figure that a decent mechanic is going to live a Medium lifestyle, so divide a month of Medium lifestyle by the number of days, and that's the Base Amount you need to pay them. The worker is going to settle for no less, and is going to want more, as this is probably highly illegal and could land them in seriously hot water. This is where having a Mechanic with a high Loyalty really counts. I don't know what rules mechanic I'd use to figure out how much the contact charges you in the end, but it'll probably be some form of Etiquette or Negotiation Test.
As far as rental costs go, you take the number of work days figured as above, and then have to pay a similar fee to the owner of the facility. Except now, an owner of said facility isn't some 9-to-5 schlub -- he's a business owner, and a fairly important one. He lives a High lifestyle, and he's not going to be happy about tying up his facility with your illegal modifications (and having to keep everyone else, who uses said facility, in the dark). So not only do you have to pay to rent the facility, but you also have to pay to keep him happy. Negotiating the rental fee is a standard Negotiation test, but keeping him happy is a Bribe test. Both payments are the same standard base cost (10,000 nY / number of work days), but here, you can potentially lower the price below base... after all, the owner still has other users of the facility, and there are tricks that he can pull to let that happen (like letting you & your shadow mechanic work at night).
A worker will work more than 8 hours in a day; you just have to pay them overtime for anything worked over 8 hours. (You are not a corporation; people who work for you are not on salary.) If you want the job done faster, figure that overtime is going to cost you double (for simplicity). So, 8 hours + 4 overtime hours roughly doubles the per-day cost. Anything more than 4 hours of overtime a day is counter-productive, as then the worker gets tired, starts making mistakes, and that bites into the time costs, and we don't need to be getting that detailed.)
So, you can get the job done quicker if you're willing to pay double. Rental rates don't change, but as you're using less days, you're renting for less time.
Okay, that sounds really complicated, but once you get it down it's pretty simple, and works for so many other situations (like when you want to pay a chauffeur for your limousine). This doesn't count for renting security or mercenaries, though. First, getting shot at calls for a MUCH higher pay rate, and second... this game isn't about fielding your own private army to do your jobs.
-Deacon
EDIT: Geez, I need to write books if I'm going to do this sort of long-winded reply...
As you inferred, GM judgment is pretty much what it boils down to. Having said that, if I were your GM, I'd charge 1000¥ per day and put it at availability 14 to rent time in a facility. Costs would, of course, be subject to the usual tests relating to availability.
As far as hiring somebody to do things -- you'd need to go through a contact, and the contact's going to take their cut. There are quite a number of contacts in the Denver campaign who are well qualified to find you the appropriate professionals. The cost is going to vary (substantially) based on their Connection and Loyalty ratings.
As far as hiring somebody to do things -- you'd need to go through a contact, and the contact's going to take their cut. There are quite a number of contacts in the Denver campaign who are well qualified to find you the appropriate professionals. The cost is going to vary (substantially) based on their Connection and Loyalty ratings.
Well, I thank you for your thoughtful answer Deacon, and it seems to do the job for using legal resources in an illegal way. However, have you given any thought to the use of illegal resources.
The Shadowrun world, in my musings, has an entire community built around supporting shadowrunners. That is where they make their living. I can easily envision an underground (figuratively) mechanical facility owned and operated by one of the criminal organizations or even a collection of smugglers (this being Denver) that would rent time to runners looking to do their own upgrades. Also, there may be mechanics working in those places willing to do the job for you (for the right price).
Thanks for your input Dunner. I do prefer the more simple method.
Robert (aka Spanner)
The Shadowrun world, in my musings, has an entire community built around supporting shadowrunners. That is where they make their living. I can easily envision an underground (figuratively) mechanical facility owned and operated by one of the criminal organizations or even a collection of smugglers (this being Denver) that would rent time to runners looking to do their own upgrades. Also, there may be mechanics working in those places willing to do the job for you (for the right price).
Thanks for your input Dunner. I do prefer the more simple method.
Robert (aka Spanner)
The cost for hiring workers, under my system, doesn't change if you're doing it all illegally -- after all, a worker's still gotta eat. But Dunner's system for rental makes more sense for the rental part of it.
-Deacon
Oh, and as far as using an illegal facility -- there aren't such monsters. A facility is quite large, quite immobile, and very easy to track down if it's been being used for highly illegal purposes. If there were a facility in Seattle or Denver being used for the manufacture of, say, rocket launchers, the cops would have a field day shutting the place down. You have to find legal facilities in order to do your illegal work. The art is in keeping it hidden from prying eyes.
-Deacon
Oh, and as far as using an illegal facility -- there aren't such monsters. A facility is quite large, quite immobile, and very easy to track down if it's been being used for highly illegal purposes. If there were a facility in Seattle or Denver being used for the manufacture of, say, rocket launchers, the cops would have a field day shutting the place down. You have to find legal facilities in order to do your illegal work. The art is in keeping it hidden from prying eyes.
| QUOTE (Deacon) |
| Oh, and as far as using an illegal facility -- there aren't such monsters. A facility is quite large, quite immobile, and very easy to track down if it's been being used for highly illegal purposes. If there were a facility in Seattle or Denver being used for the manufacture of, say, rocket launchers, the cops would have a field day shutting the place down. You have to find legal facilities in order to do your illegal work. The art is in keeping it hidden from prying eyes. |
I think you're picturing a facility as being a large warehouse or assembly-line location. I picture a facility as being a large garage (like a current-day mechanic). I have two reasons for thinking this way: 1) with the advent of micro-technology and nanotech, a lot of the tech for building and repairing parts has gotten smaller and 2) if I'm right about what you're picturing a facility to be, I would envision that would cost a lot more that the 100,000 retail price listed in the core rules. (And as a corollary, if it's shown as purchasable in the core rules, I don't think it should be as hard to use as implied by your post.)
I was thinking that a facility was something like what you see on these biker build-off shows on TV. They manufacture their own custom parts (lathes, plus metal and engine tools to modify factory parts) plus have all the tools to work on the bikes(including lifts and power tools). I am sure that future facilities need a lot more especially when your talking guns and cannons. I think only illegal facilities would do unless you are renting space from a military or big time corp group. No normal place that does not have criminal ties is going to let you build a assault cannon vehicle mount without calling the cops.
I think that 1000Y per day is a little steep, I think as a DM I would use that same cost as renting a Enchanting shop (I think 500 per Day? i'm not sure I don't have my books with me but I don't think is was as high as 1k) as the facility has a base cost that is about the same as the Enchanting shop. Also I would think more than one group can use a facility at the same time.
R-Caine
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