I'm curious as to how the decision was made to place the SR Missions series in Denver as opposed to Seattle or Hong Kong. Denver is a great city, and I'm enjoying running missions there for my group. Having to flip back to an old Second- or Third Edition seems counter-intuitive. Granted the information in the Quarterly was helpful in getting me/us up to speed, but still. It seems like it would have made better sense to place the series in one of those cities instead, which would have likely increased interest in Runner Havens as well as the SR Missions series.

This isn't meant as a criticism, just an honest question. Is there a super secret 4th Edition Denver book on the way?

I agree...its somewhat retarded. I've been sprinkling SR Missions into my campaign, and therefore started the group in Denver. I don't have any 2nd or 3rd edition books, so everything we know about Denver is based on Missions and maps from Google. I moved the group to Seattle about a month ago, out of necessity. There's a wealth of background in Seattle...so I wanted to use it!

Denver is a, very nice, boxed set from SR3, as a source it was available at the time the Missions were being created, the recent Hong Kong material wasn't. While the Seattle material has always been available, I believe the choice was made to not have it be in Seattle. You need to look at the timeline, and realize the missions have been around for while, and the available "canon" cities might not be what you have now.

There are a number of, strictly pragmatic reasons for why we chose Denver for the SRM02 story arc city.

Going in to detail on all of those reasons would probably be excessive, but the concise answer:

• The SR2 Denver Boxed set, written by Nigel Findley, is one of the coolest SR supplements of all time.
• Denver was not on the list for Runner Havens or Corporate Enclaves. This gave the Missions writers more creative license to develop the city.
• The international borders fit in well with some of the ideas that we were using for the campaign.
• As deek points out, there is a wealth of material on Seattle. We felt that it was more productive to flesh out another city than to just keep adding to those resources.

As far as a Super Secret Denver book goes -- A)If it were super secret, I couldn't talk about it and B)The Denver story arc is 25 adventures, we've just released the 24th. Now wouldn't be the wisest time to release a sourcebook intended to supplement an ending arc.

There is also the Denver Missions Primer in Commandos Quarterly...
http://www.commandohq.com/Files/Files.asp?...load&ID=644

Yea, the info in the quarterly is very helpful.

As for the Super Secret Denver supplement: if I give you, say, a Gift Certificate to Olive Garden, would you tell me then?

I don't really like coming out and saying things like this -- it often comes across as too combative, but: the points you make are good. The would have been just as good if you hadn't started your post off by calling something "retarded." Whether you're right or wrong, or providing good feedback or not, a post that begins with something inciteful is less likely to get the result you want, especially when it's a real hot-button word like "retarded" as opposed to something like "stupid" or "goofy" or whatever.

As a Missions Writer, I can say that the choice to go to Denver was supported by the writers because it gave us room to bend and flex. We probably spent about two months discussing which direction we were going to take specific items and how to tie up loose threads from 2nd and 3rd Ed. (The Olympics in Denver were one such item.) Beyond that, there was a collaborative effort to flesh out a new city through the Missions and provide a city that was just as "alive" as Seattle. By reading through the SRM 02 campaign arc, you are introduced to the movers and shakers throughout organized crime. New locations were added and some older ones were updated to 2070.

Personally, I sent in a proposal to write a Denver book, similar to New Seattle about two years ago. Conversations I've had since then, have told me that the single city books are not high on the agenda with an emphasis on books like Runner Havens and Corporate Enclaves covering multiple cities. While I'd love to see a Denver book, as Dunner mentioned, writing one to specifically support the SRM 02 campaign would be a little foolish at this point.

Point taken. I agree, retarded probably wasn't the best choice of words, although I will stand by the meaning...as it did slow or impede my progress of GMing our campaign arc due to lack of SR4 materials I had on hand. But I digress...

I really liked the SR Missions, mainly for the headstart adventures (meaning I took the basic concepts, and inserted my own NPCs, factions, etc, to seemlessly integrate with my own campaign story). Its good to know that there are older supplements that I could have used to flesh things out a lot more...but, having not ran anything since 1st Edition, and then starting back up about a year ago with SR4, it was difficult to really get Denver feeling right with just SR4 materials.

I don't think that is entirely true (the foolish part).

I am in a group at the moment that is playing through the missions starting from the beginning. Just at home, to have a good time, because the GM is new and learning the system and developing adventures at the same time seemed daunting to him. When we originally started playing, the players thought that Denver was a poor choice as we had no access to source material old or new.

As time progressed, and we've made it through 4 of the missions, we've gotten to like Denver and changed our attitude on the choice of setting. The feel is interesting and different from Seattle, and the world seems to unfold a little more with each mission.

This being said, if the missions series is ending, a sourcebook (or half of a sourcebook in the case of new designs) on Denver would be excellent. Not as a support for the missions series, but as a collection of information from the mission series with extra information to fill in holes and give new ideas. It would help GMs who want to use Denver without the missions to use it, it would help GMs who ran the missions to continue to use it with more consolidated information and reference, and in general would provide a great resource in general.

That's my thought on the subject.

Speaking as a person who once was a contributor to the Missions, apparently I am completely full of shit. There you go.

-Deacon

Edit: There you go, Dunner. And with an attitude like that, asshole, I won't be a contributor again until you step down and we get someone nicer in the head spot.

Deacon, you're not a contributor the Denver Missions campaign. I've politely asked you by PM more than once to please stop presenting yourself as an active author or a commando. Please stop pretending that you have inside information on the campaign. Frankly, you do not.

VS was set in Seattle. The original SRM story arc was also set in Seattle. Things were moved to Denver when I took over as coordinator for exactly the reasons I stated above.

Other corrections:
-In the current Missions campaign, there are four nations in Denver, not six.
-The CHQ update explicitly stated which law enforcement companies were active in which sectors. It's abundantly clear which law enforcement entity you'd be dealing with in each nation's sector.

SR2!

Sorry, wasn't at home to take a look at my box so I relied on my obviously faulty memory....

I would love for Denver to be one of the highlighted cities in Awakened Haunts, Feral Cities, or the other city book that I can't remember at the moment. If it is, I know that I would submit a proposal to write or contribute to the chapter. The concept that I was naysaying against, and I believe Dunner was as well, was a Denver book designed to specifically support the Missions 02 campaign.

Another option I could see would be a compilation of information from the Missions released on HoloStreets in a serial form.

Okay, this is pretty blatantly over the line. Deacon is being given a week off for making personal attacks.

Keep it civil folks.

Wow. John is very much on the list of people who have given a lot to Shadowrun [and Catalyst Game Labs] while asking for very little in return, and he's a generous and kind friend to many of the people that he works with, as well. Such an outburst is totally unwarranted -- while it's fair to not agree with all the actions that John has taken, I have never seen him make a decision that wasn't for the good of Missions and Shadowrun in general.

Thanks for all your replies... well, the ones that didn't turn into a ban fest, anyway.

I don't take issue with the campaign being set in Denver. I find Denver more interesting given the unique political tensions that exist in the city. It's less cookie-cutter than Seattle. My group and I are more casual gamers, and having a readily available backlog of in-depth information on hand would have helped, but in this way it also gives me the latitude to make stuff up as I go. It's all good either way.

You guys pour a lot of work into the Missions, and for free, and for that I'm grateful.

I agree regarding the interesting politics. I haven't had the chance to play in the Missions game other than a one-shot at GenCon last year, but Denver itself has a lot of potential. I started to run a game there back in SR3, and it was cool.

yes I bought the Denver box set during SR2 new off the shelf at my (then) FLGS. I ran a campaign there and loved it. Though I admit I am a Findley fanboy. I liked having the different sections and mindsets of the city. It was a way to give all of the flavor of the various countries in the world easily and w/o massive amounts of travel time. Even having my copy, I would also love to see a new Denver book, I mean, they had Ghostwalker come in, that's gotta change up some stuff. I'd also like to see how the transition was handled from CAS kicking the Azzies out.

I have to say another sourcebook I've always wondered about was the New York area. It's used alot in the novels, but never had much material out for it, at least that I'm aware of.

NAGNA and Corporate Enclaves both cover NYC.

ah okay, I will have to look for those
thanks!

I am not a missions writer... i have no privy information on the missions... i dont claim to do so...

now having said that. I do run the missions games at GenCON and DragonCON for CGL. I really like the material and I (since I have read the missions) see lots of back story/threads. Way cool. And since I am not one of the writers, I dont have the *whole* story. Which as a SRM GM I am cool with.

As for how dunner (John) acts/does? he has done nothing but been very professional in his actions on these forums and at the cons. I have been emailing with him (via various lists) for over 1.5 years now and he has been always very level headed and professional. So when I see someone going off on a rant about how bad he is, I just tune that person out. Now replace dunner with several of the other missions gms or contributors that I have been communicating with during the same period. I do the same thing. When someone start going off on them, I tune that person out.

For the most part (I can not come up with any issues/items but somewhere there must be *one*) I have not seen any unprofessionalism with any of the SRM staff. For instance the DragonCON gaming staff this last year made many comments to me (among the other SRM staff) on how professional/stable/great we were. During the last many GenCONs that I have been to (working or not) I have always heard good things in the hallways of the SRM staff.

So... can we all just get along? if not, take it outside please.... I asked nicely...

dog

Back in SR2 I thought Denver was a bit chaotic and awkward for use as a setting but the new Missions are all fantastic and do a great job of fleshing out the city in an updated and logical manner. Denver seems like the Berlin of the future and what better a setting for Shadowrun?

However, for the sake of simplicity and ease I created my own setting for use with Shadowrun and use it for every game I run. This approach allows me more freedom to do as I wish with the setting and players are given the opportunity to get familiar with the locales and personalities across multiple games. I do this with every game system I run and if I am running published material I simply replace locales and sometimes personalities with ones specific to my existing game. If I were running in Denver (or Seattle, or Hong Kong or wherever) I would not have been as comfortable tearing up the landscape and nuking an entire district off the map in my last campaign. Boston will never be the same...

I say all this from the perspective of someone who does not run games at cons and does not submit information on the outcomes of sessions to the SRM team. I have, however, made extensive use of the SRM material and I heartily encourage and support all the work the authors have put forth. I ran SRM00 and SRM01 before I updated to SR4 and I loved them. Though I did enjoy the second half a little more. I have not yet run SRM02, taking some time off from Shadowrun to play D&D, but they read fantastic and the story is lots of fun. Now that it's done I'm excited to get it running.

I personally liked Denver as a nice change of scenery, since my runners rarely get out of Seattle anymore.

WOO-HOO ANARCHY IN THE FORUMS, LONG LIVE THE CLOWN PRINCE ! !

There is no need for anyone to reply, nor continue this derailment.