WeaverMount
Apr 7 2008, 05:23 PM
I have character background I would like comments on, and where or not you think it's do able in SR4 mechanics and not too Marry Sue. I while it could make an awesome PC, I think it would be a lot easier to run as an NPC so I'm hiding from my players to keep that option open
[ Spoiler ]
The basic concept for the character is a MoralAmbiguCorp wants to build an A.I. that really understands people and social inter action. So they bag a (meta)human and wire them for Sim-Sense hours after birth, and plug them into a newly seeded A.I. The connection was extensive. The AI and Child shared a 24/7 stream of consciousness from day one. The child was as well cared for such as this experiment would allow. It had "parents", and was given an education and toys and streams of friends. The corp wanted the A.I./Child to flurish and grow and both halfs of the coin got anything they wanted (that didn't vaguely lead to freedom). The A.I. liked to play as/with/through the child. It was one of it's favorite things to do. Socializing was rough, but they got along alright. Though The A.I/Child come into being together, but the AI quickly out strips the human in ever metric. The child grows up as a peripheral to the A.I. the human came to think of it's self as a fleshy module who's purpose was to contribute uniquely slow, social minded, fleshy, wet, and emotional signal to the larger neural net that was the Colossal AI. The child's self identity became that of a part, not a whole. It was completely at peace with such an existence. It was a happy well cared for productive part of wondrous whole. The child was advancing countess fields just by existing and got to do whatever it/the machine wanted. The child module was happy. Until SketchiTech realized that how far ahead of the curve MoralAmbugiCorp was getting with this successful black research project. It arranged a successful extraction on the child and possibly destroyed the A.I. It viewed the "rescue" as a lobotomy. Except it isn't the docile inmate it's the removed chunk of brain that's still a tragically viable organism.
So I really like this concept. It opens up some fun RP. All I can think of for plot though is having the child hit the Shadows bend on revenge. If this character ever becomes an SR4 PC, I might do it as a technomancer. With physical aptitudes as low as this background would imply it just have enough BP to do stuff >_<
b1ffov3rfl0w
Apr 7 2008, 06:47 PM
Cool. It reminds me of the Greg Egan story "Learning to Be Me", which I highly recommend.
nathanross
Apr 7 2008, 09:19 PM
Sounds fun. I don't see why it isn't doable, just hard to role-play. A TM totally fits the part, as this AI has augmented his brain as he sees fit. I guess part of me would wish for a symbiotic relationship between the AI and TM, like two friendly personalities within the same body or twins, not master slave. For the slave looking for his master I would have him just break down at intermittent moments since he doesn't know what to do (it was the AIs action) and it reminds him of the missing master he had.
I feel the twin idea is much easier to do. The metahuman grew up with the AI always at his side, and the AI always had the metahuman. They developed together, each changing to adapt to the other. When the other corp extracted the TM (or even the AI) they were split and now they are looking for each other.
Great character concept though.
WeaverMount
Apr 7 2008, 11:52 PM
I see how the twin idea could be easier to do, but it's really not what I'm going for. I like full fledged Strong AI to be completely beyond the scope of the human mind. This plays to deep fears. Bringing something genuinely new and more fit and potent than you the creator is timeless story. That that's what I want from A.I. in a cyber-punk setting.
I wasn't thinking of a master/slave dynamic so much as a Brain/Spinal Column relationship. What I find most compelling about this character is how the human has the same physical self-image as anyone of use, but identifies as a part not a whole. And who's to tell an angle fallen to earth it's better for them this way?
Also thanks for the reminder about the origins of otaku and TMs. It is rather perfect. Given what everyone is talking about with essence and edge being pretty much a Soul I could imagine that in SR Strong AI is part and parcel with a literal GitS and possibly resonance.
Malicant
Apr 7 2008, 11:57 PM
Hm, only problem I see is the part where the kid is hooked 24/7 to a SimSense stream. I personally think that SimSense would need to be hot and that would make the kid addicted real good, which would be bad. Burnout bad. That is one of the reasons cyborgs have that sensory deprivation phase.
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 12:06 AM
Valid point on the hot-sim. Is workable to think that they could have been gene tweaked to handle Hot-Sim level I/O as a basic line? Do you happen to recall if the sensory deprivation was explicitly about the Hot-Sim issues or any of the other myriad reason it sucks to be a 2070 jar head. Also any recommendations cannon corps for the two place holder ones? Who would Sketchitech get to do the smash and grab? Random Runners? Humanus?
Thanks all
Edit: I don't think
this is what you are thinking of
nathanross
Apr 8 2008, 12:14 AM
QUOTE (Malicant @ Apr 7 2008, 07:57 PM)
Hm, only problem I see is the part where the kid is hooked 24/7 to a SimSense stream. I personally think that SimSense would need to be hot and that would make the kid addicted real good, which would be bad. Burnout bad. That is one of the reasons cyborgs have that sensory deprivation phase.
Dont forget Halberstam's kids. They were the original jarheads. I'm not even sure how burnout would be if you never had experienced anything but the hotsim.
I kind of see what you mean WeaverMount. I guess you could play it like an Adam thrown out of the garden of Eden (you get it right?). In fact the more I think about it the more I can see that as the case. I'm curious now whether he would have a total hard on for hot-sim or not and whether he would be scrounging the matrix to find a UV host again. "Why did you abandon me? I did nothing wrong?" Man, great RP opportunities. I hope for your sake you get the chance to play him as a character.
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 12:47 AM
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 7 2008, 07:14 PM)
Dont forget Halberstam's kids. They were the original jarheads. I'm not even sure how burnout would be if you never had experienced anything but the hotsim.
Where could I read up on this?
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 7 2008, 07:14 PM)
Adam thrown out of the garden of Eden (you get it right?)
I'm gonna guess Neon Genesis Evangelion. A friend of my told me the only way to watch it straight through in on sitting sooo we did. I'm not sure I got it any less than anyone else though
Dumori
Apr 8 2008, 12:53 AM
I feel that any two entryties live close for most of there existence would have huge bonding involed the A.I might just find jt hard to be on its own with out the chatter of a human brain but the human would see the AI as his closest friend and a borother or just a much of hi
as he is.
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 01:23 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking of the human half as complete psychological wreck. The interconnection is beyond any bond. "Bonded" does does not began to describe how your Hyper Thalimus feels about you. The A.I. and child where integral components of mentality that you and I will never comprehend. The only real reason it is semi-functional is that it was used for socializing extensively and now can socialize reflexively and that makes it very functional. Throw on some crazy matrix ability and you have a runner.
Malicant
Apr 8 2008, 08:43 AM
Tha Jarhead deprivation thingy is not only because of the Hot-Sim problem. It forces them to sleep, too, I guess. But it is still a problem. Even the BBB mentions in the VR section, that Hot Sim makes you addicted, because it's on BTL level. And Addiction tests tend to end in Burnout.
Give the Kid a good body and willpower and maybe design a positive quality that gives him bonus dice to resist SimSense addiction. Sonething like 5BP and +2 dice. A technlogical solution might be a little too far fetched. Hot Sim overloads your senses, anything to counter that would also negate the benefit. Might be a prototype, though, whatever fits your game
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 04:22 PM
I wasn't thinking so much about turning down the flow as buffing the pipes. Hot-Sim is some kind of standard. Regular meta's are not build to this standard. Does anyone have thoughts on what it build a brain to spec so that hot-sim was with standard operational range? Oblivously this character isn't going to be a total burnout, but needed to have spend time tons of time in hot sim. So what makes the most sense for a tweak? Prenatal gene tweaks? A.I. are just that cool they can rewire the brain? Brains are just that cool that they can adapt to the signal level if you start at day one and have AAA resourses making sure it goes smoothly?
Tobias
Apr 8 2008, 04:43 PM
IIRC Nanohive + nanoware like the nanites which boost the VCR by reinforcing the neural pathways do that sort of thing
Heath Robinson
Apr 8 2008, 06:22 PM
Why are you assuming he'd need to run hot Sim? Hot Sim is SimSense which has the intensity jacked up beyond the levels that people feel in everyday life. You don't get the +2 for nothing, you get it because changes are a lot less subtle - and therefore easier to notice and react to - and the third initiative pass because your brain is being soaked in a cocktail of adrenaline and bathing in ATP from the intensity of the sense data being processed as well as more snap reactions to changes. I'd say that the researchers would try everything to avoid this because it'd degrade the performance of one of the nodes in the AI network over time which may have unpredictable effects on the systems behaviour and would incite anger in any sensible intelligence that understood its predicament (yes, many haMatrix Specialists are not sensible creatures), especially given that it did not choose this and it could have been easily avoided.
Method
Apr 8 2008, 07:27 PM
QUOTE
The child module was happy.
It kinda makes me feel dirty... I love it!!!
nathanross
Apr 8 2008, 07:34 PM
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Apr 7 2008, 07:47 PM)
Where could I read up on this?
I'm gonna guess Neon Genesis Evangelion. A friend of my told me the only way to watch it straight through in on sitting sooo we did. I'm not sure I got it any less than anyone else though
Halberstam is detailed in the original
Threats book for SR2. Very good read, and has some great campaign ideas, even though the material is quite old.
I wasn't really thinking about Evangelion, just the feeling like falling from heaven that I think this character would feel. He has grown up in the presence of this near omniscient being, who he may have felt of like a father or god, and now that he no longer is constantly in the presence, it must be devastating for him. You could also use the movie
City of Angels for reference, but the story of Genesis is just about all you need, I think.
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 07:39 PM
@Heath: Nice. Something in your post just made me focus on the fact that not all parts of the brain are equally active and interconnected at all times. As activity and centrality roam the network the child's signal levels would fluctuate as well. Some times the levels would qualify as "Hot-Sim". Mostly they would not.
WeaverMount
Apr 8 2008, 07:52 PM
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 8 2008, 02:34 PM)
Halberstam is detailed in the original Threats book for SR2. Very good read, and has some great campaign ideas, even though the material is quite old.
I wasn't really thinking about Evangelion, just the feeling like falling from heaven that I think this character would feel. He has grown up in the presence of this near omniscient being, who he may have felt of like a father or god, and now that he no longer is constantly in the presence, it must be devastating for him. You could also use the movie City of Angels for reference, but the story of Genesis is just about all you need, I think.
The SF Bay area may be full tree-hugging, liberal, libertine, queers BUT we do have bibles out here
.
Method
Apr 9 2008, 07:55 PM
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 8 2008, 11:34 AM)
Halberstam is detailed in the original Threats book for SR2. Very good read, and has some great campaign ideas, even though the material is quite old.
Halberstam's first "appearance" was in a fiction piece in the original Virtual Realities source book from SR1. He hooked a kid named Remmy up to the Matrix from birth. IIRC the story is basically about how Halberstam hires a decker named Lucifer to teach Remmy hacking skills, but instead Lucifer teaches him about the real world. Remmy basically organizes his own extraction to escape from his virtual prison.
Or was it Brutus that was hired to teach him and Lucifer that helps him escape? Can't remember.
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