http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24356537

I read this news article today and my head almost exploded. The news article actually tried to be balanced about why people enjoy playing GTA instead of just boringly condeming it and blaming it for all of our problems. They even mentioned open-ended play style!

I could go into some sort of corporate conspiracy here... what with the MS portion of MSNBC

But hopefully it's a sign of the times.

The journalist still managed to get something totally wrong, though:

You could even find sandbox games back in the 80s...

Yeah, SimAnt!

SimAnt came out in 91, so it's not exactly an 80s game... And the spider was far too scary (especially the sound it made... CLAC CLAC CLAC CLAC ! You're dead now !).

I was thinking more in the lines of Elite or Midwinter.

Midwinter was pretty sweet. AFAIK the first game ever to implement scope wobble. But it was really hard to accomplish things in that game and not resort to just sending someone with a hang glider to go and blow up the enemy base right at the beginning.

Flames of Freedom, the sequel, actually keeps many strategic aspects from Midwinter, but the firefights are a lot smoother and more intuitive. The first time I played Flames of Freedom I thought the game had shifted to be more arcade style, until I realized that in fact most of the strategic role playing elements from the first game were still there, and in fact there was even some more strategy added. It was just a whole lot more smooth in terms of the gameplay.

I'd recommend everyone go check out Flames of Freedom and play it keeping in mind the year it came out. I actually had a lot of fun with it, and I made a custom player character who looked a bit like Chuck Norris.

Watching the tv programs in the GTA 4 game right now. Dang, it's hilarious.

Ok... why can't the shadowrun games be kinda like this?

I'm sure if they came out with a new one, it would be. Say, somewhere between a GTA and a Mass Effect?

What exactly does GTA offer that you're looking for in Shadowrun? You just want it more swashbuckling?

In my experience, making Shadowrun more swashbuckling depends partially on the GM, but primarily on the players. I planned out a job where the Johnson gets killed right away and the PCs are plopped in with a t-bird and a giant laser that can cut through buildings, surrounded by explosions and double crosses and without ever knowing exactly what's going on (but generally aware of what's blowing up) and the players saved the Johnson and spent most of the game planning anyway. I'm going to begin throwing more ninjas and drop bears at them to keep them moving next time.

I...uhh...I don't get "swashbuckling" and GTA in my head at the same time, sorry.

Keep in mind, by swashbuckling I don't mean pirates, but rather, exciting, non-stop action, fights, romance, explosions and so on.

GTA, no, in some ways it can be less swashbuckling. There's just more potential to cause havok for those who want to get that out of their system. But for some, it can be more mundane, but mainly, its the feel of a living breathing city that you're navigating around.

I think a lot of that is a problem with the GM. I always yell at my GM for failing to properly multi-thread and provide three or more simultaneous soundtracks, but that's life.

I don't think people are complaring GTA to table-top RPG Shadowrun, and complaining. I think people were complaining when comparing GTA style "sandbox" sort of gameplay with the recent Shadowrun video game.

The game that was evidently designed to be exactly what no Shadowrun players actually wanted.

It's like counter-strike with trolls!

And teleportation! And come-back-from-the-dead spells!

And everyone is directly employed by a corporation! And other completely canon fluff! Hooray! I hear in the expansion you can play an invoked great blood spirit dragon!

Shadowrun For 360, something we can all agree to despise.

GTA IV is everything I want in a Shadowrun videogame. Or at least, the framework for everything I want. Contacts, relationship management with those contacts, carjacking, a variety of crimes to commit, exciting flights from police, guns, just enough realism in the physics to make it fun, grimy streets, back-alleys, back-room gun shops, and an unending hail of bullets. If nobody throws some money at Rockstar to make this happen, then Microsoft is just tired of making money, because that game would fly off the shelves. Cyberpunk GTA? You don't have to be a Shadowrun fan to get on-board for that.

Until that magical day, I'll be more than content playing GTA IV. Possibly too content.

I'd argue that Deus Ex would instead be the true way of the jedi, as it would be emphasizing more FPS tactics, has nanotech mods implemented, and has a well developed stealth engine.

I can't comment on that fully, as I haven't had the pleasure of playing Deus Ex. But I think that, in general, sandbox games have a better shot at capturing the "lifestyle" of a Shadowrunner, and I don't think FPS tactics are necessarily relevant to Shadowrunners. I don't think it'd be that hard to implement cyber mods into the game, it's just another thing you buy. The flow of the game in GTA IV matches more what I think of as being a Shadowrunner's life. You meet people, they need stuff done, but they're not just random guys, you have to cultivate a relationship by taking them out drinking. If you're really good, someone always wants a piece of your time, so while you're doing work for one guy someone else calls up and wants you, and you have to manage that, make it up to the other guy later, etc. You buy guns from a small setup behind an unmarked door in an alley that only pros know about, and while you're busy shooting up some fragger that's been begging for it, the Star show up and start plugging both of you.

I know enough about Deus Ex to say with some confidence that these are not things that happen there.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00...6852&sr=1-1

It's cheap cheap cheap.

Is anyone familiar with the differences between the Computer and Console versions of the Deus Ex games? If they are pretty similar, I know what's next on my GameQ.

And GTA 4 looks AMAZING. I only touched it for like 5 minutes and I want SOOOO much more. Driving is going to take some getting used to.

Maybe someone will make a SR mod for GTA IV?

Driving seemed developmentally impaired until I realized that the trigger controls on the PS3 allow for more precise control.

360 user myself. Like I said, I only played for like 5 minutes, so not much experience. Man I want more.

I'm playing on the 360, and the driving problems vary wildly on what you're drivnig and how beat up it is. I'm convinced that most of the PS3 vs 360 talk where GTA IV is concerned is snake oil, like most of the PS3/360 arguments.

Oh I didn't mean that I thought the PS3 version was substantially different, it's just the version i got to play.

No problem. I'm just getting tired of the back and forth between PS3 and 360 owners online. At this point, I think we have to accept that the market has been split, and we're not going to see one system eat the other one anytime soon.

i hear tell it has made 500 plus million right off the bat. Impressive, most impressive.

I do enjoy GTA IV and think it would be awesome for a SR mod for it but as its on my 360 I doubt it. But I do like how they seem to have gone, its an 18 game, stop whining about things like 'hot coffee' in the GTA3 etc... but thats just my view.

The hot coffee stink made me extremely sad, because people apparently could devote all kinds of energy and money and time to bashing video games, but they couldn't grasp the concept of a bit of code that was on the disk but removed from the game, or do 5 minutes of research and realize that coders do that sort of thing all the time when they can't make something work in the code.

I remember reading how one advocacy group accused Rockstar of acting in bad faith.

The original Deus Ex is available for PC and PS2. The PS2 version has some new music, redone character models, a different HUD, and modified levels (the setting and story are the same but the maps were subdivided into smaller areas to fit into the PS2's small RAM).

Deus Ex: Invisible War was developed as an Xbox game and later ported to the PC. Both version are mostly identical, the PC version has higher-resolution textures.

http://kotaku.com/5008722/late-late-show-r...v?autoplay=true

The first half is pretty goddamn funny, I especially liked the crack about the war.