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Hatspur
This is my attempt at creating something many of you will call blasphemous, but I don't care. I think the Earthdawn setting is awesome, and I think the rules system for it is terrible. So I am creating this conversion thread that I will be adding to over the course of the next week. I want people's feedback because I want to make it a fun setting to play in. Keep in mind that I am NOT trying to preserve many rules mechanics present in Earthdawn. So do not be surprised that I am doing away with disciplines and talents. I may preserve a great deal of them as adept powers or qualities, and if your favorite one is missing, make a suggestion. From here on out, most of the stuff I will be posting will be cut and pasted from a Wordpad file.

If anyone has material they want to contribute, I would love to see it. This includes rules tweaks for Earthdawn that have nothing to do with Shadowrun 4e or other Earthdawn conversions.

I will try to post at least three updates each day until I am satisfied with the finished product.

Let me start by saying that I love Shadowrun. It is a stunning game in which play moves smoothly and character creation can be very entertaining. I also love the setting that Shadowrun is meant to be played in. This is my first attempt to convert Earthdawn's cumbersome rules system into that of Shadowrun 4th edition. It will likely take longer and be much more painful than I originally anticipated. I am aware that there are many game mechanics in place that would eliminate the feel of an Earthdawn game, some of these mechanics are going to dissapear intentionally while others are going to be preserved in a method that I hope makes sense. Many people are going to think or say that this should/can not be done and that I am wasting my time. I think this is cute because I have to live under the yolk of forced unemployment for at least another month. And besides, I am not neccesarily sharing this because I think it will make me a writing or dev career, I am sharing because I will use it with my own gaming buddies and I figured some of you wouldn't mind having a rules set for Earthdawn that didn't make you want to tear your hair out. Take what I do with a grain of salt, provide constructive criticism, and if you see something you don't like, don't use it but by all means tell me why you don't like it so I can perhaps improve upon it.

Now, the next question is where do I start? There are many areas, but I believe it will be easiest if I start with character creation. After all, you HAVE to start here if you are a player. So, I will begin by converting the races and their respective stat mods and BP cost in 4th edition.

I am going to take the lazy man's route and rule the the already existing races in 4e need no rearranging. This is partly because I think those point costs make sense (Except for the Ork) and I would like to keep as much of the original systems as intact as possible. Anyway, enough language arts, I think its time for some 6th grade math.

[ Spoiler ]

More to come.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE
I think the rules system for it is terrible.


Heretic!

smile.gif

I did a rough convertion for Lightbearers something like a year ago, although honestly I have no idea where it is. See if your search-fu is strong. It's by no means a perfect convertion, but it's something to toss into the pile. Good luck!
Hatspur
I figured it had already been done somewhere, I will try to search that up.

Skill post

[ Spoiler ]
Fortune
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ May 6 2008, 04:11 AM) *
I did a rough convertion for Lightbearers something like a year ago, although honestly I have no idea where it is. See if your search-fu is strong.


You mean this one? biggrin.gif
Hatspur
Magic Post

[ Spoiler ]
fistandantilus4.0
A touch on the skills- I'd disagree with requiring different skills for things like 'axe' . It defines a character to strictly on one type of weapons (kinda like D&D) because of the cost difference to use something else. Earthdawn uses "melee weapons" as a skill, while SR gives a little more definition by using Clubs, Bldes, and Unarmed. Conjuring should have a initiate grade restriction, as there is summoning in Earthdawn, jsut not until later on.

The easiest way to handle talents is to find equivelant adept powers, and use a set of guidlines adept powers with more signature effects.

Example : First Circle Warrior
Magic Rating -
Melee Weapons = Improved Clubs .5, Improved Blades .5
WoodSkin = Attribute Boost Body II .5
Unarmed Combat = Improved Unarmed .5
Acrobatic Strike = Great Leap I .5, Improved gymnastics II .5
Air Dance - trickier, I'd go with Ability Boost Reaction II.5, Traceless Walk .5 (forget the exact cost)

Anyway, that's a starting character level, four points of magic, certainly in line with a first circle warrior.

More advanced stuff like Tiger Spring could be :
Tiger Spring = Initiate Grade - Magic Point + Raise Magic Attribute 1 for 2 points magic applied to Increase Reflexes

It's a different approach. Tossing ideas out there mostly, give you more meat to munch on. smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 5 2008, 05:26 PM) *
You mean this one? biggrin.gif

Yeah that one. 1CSP. Good job *tosses Karma Cookie to Fortune*
Fortune
Mmmmmm .... Fortune Cookie Karma! biggrin.gif

[Instead of re-sending the whole sheet for 1 point (for a change), I'll just tell you that I'm going to spend it on improving the Augmentation Knowledge Skill.]

Incidentally, Traceless Walk cost 1 full Power Point. wink.gif
Hatspur
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ May 5 2008, 11:17 PM) *
A touch on the skills- I'd disagree with requiring different skills for things like 'axe' . It defines a character to strictly on one type of weapons (kinda like D&D) because of the cost difference to use something else. Earthdawn uses "melee weapons" as a skill, while SR gives a little more definition by using Clubs, Bldes, and Unarmed. Conjuring should have a initiate grade restriction, as there is summoning in Earthdawn, jsut not until later on.

The easiest way to handle talents is to find equivelant adept powers, and use a set of guidlines adept powers with more signature effects.

Example : First Circle Warrior
Magic Rating -
Melee Weapons = Improved Clubs .5, Improved Blades .5
WoodSkin = Attribute Boost Body II .5
Unarmed Combat = Improved Unarmed .5
Acrobatic Strike = Great Leap I .5, Improved gymnastics II .5
Air Dance - trickier, I'd go with Ability Boost Reaction II.5, Traceless Walk .5 (forget the exact cost)

Anyway, that's a starting character level, four points of magic, certainly in line with a first circle warrior.

More advanced stuff like Tiger Spring could be :
Tiger Spring = Initiate Grade - Magic Point + Raise Magic Attribute 1 for 2 points magic applied to Increase Reflexes

It's a different approach. Tossing ideas out there mostly, give you more meat to munch on. smile.gif


I was planning on handling talents as adept powers as it did make the most sense. Unfortunately I don't have street magic so anything that I pull out of my arse that is essentially out of street magic, just let me know. As for the conjuring initiate grade restriction I agree with you, I think I will put that as a restriction to initiate grade magicians. I separated the weapons and lots of other skills out intentionally because I thought melee weapons is way too broad a skill, especially when you compare it with casters and the restrictions I'm going to apply to them (I haven't posted it yet, so this is kind of a silly justification). In no way am I trying to Gygaxify Earthdawn and hopefully this won't be the case. There are no D&D books open in front of me while I am doing this so hopefully I will be free of the corrupting hive mind influence spin.gif .

Thank you for the criticism, I appreciate it and will change things if it makes sense to me. Now to patch up the magic section a bit...
fistandantilus4.0
If the break up's what your intentionally going for, then I'll shut up on that one. You're right, in that melee weapons is very broad. Someone who's an expert with a sword in RL wouldn't likely have the same amount of skills with say a whip. I only mentioned it because of the difficulties in advancing. IOW, metagaming reasons. smile.gif

For spellcasting, in ED, casting through a matrix means that you don't have to take damage from casting Raw Magic. It just takes longer to weave the threads. Besides dodging horror morks, that's the main advantage of a spell matrix. Spells that have threads take one extra round to cast per thread, unless you force it through, in which case, you take strain (Drain) damage per thread you force out to cast it faster.

Customizing spell matrix works fine. There's already a number of different types (Armored, Shared, Regular ol' matrix). I really like how you handled damage to the matrix, healing time for it, and what spells you can stuff in. There's less spells alloted in ED (only get a handful of matrices, and one spell per), but really it's a matter of flavor. If you want more varied spell slinging, load 'em on up. That was always something I'd debated. You tend to get a sort of One Trick Pony syndrome as it stands in ED, since the caster only gets a few spells at a time to work with, without reattuning on the fly. But it's done that way to show the limits imposed on magic by the Scourge, and make spell casters work that much harder than their forebearers. Again, just a matter of preference really.

@Fortune - Thanks, I thought .5 seemed off, but I didn't have the care to actually go look it up. smile.gif

Warrior Circle 2 - Durability = Mystic Armor wink.gif
Hatspur
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ May 6 2008, 08:00 AM) *
If the break up's what your intentionally going for, then I'll shut up on that one. You're right, in that melee weapons is very broad. Someone who's an expert with a sword in RL wouldn't likely have the same amount of skills with say a whip. I only mentioned it because of the difficulties in advancing. IOW, metagaming reasons. smile.gif

For spellcasting, in ED, casting through a matrix means that you don't have to take damage from casting Raw Magic. It just takes longer to weave the threads. Besides dodging horror morks, that's the main advantage of a spell matrix. Spells that have threads take one extra round to cast per thread, unless you force it through, in which case, you take strain (Drain) damage per thread you force out to cast it faster.

Customizing spell matrix works fine. There's already a number of different types (Armored, Shared, Regular ol' matrix). I really like how you handled damage to the matrix, healing time for it, and what spells you can stuff in. There's less spells alloted in ED (only get a handful of matrices, and one spell per), but really it's a matter of flavor. If you want more varied spell slinging, load 'em on up. That was always something I'd debated. You tend to get a sort of One Trick Pony syndrome as it stands in ED, since the caster only gets a few spells at a time to work with, without reattuning on the fly. But it's done that way to show the limits imposed on magic by the Scourge, and make spell casters work that much harder than their forebearers. Again, just a matter of preference really.

@Fortune - Thanks, I thought .5 seemed off, but I didn't have the care to actually go look it up. smile.gif

Warrior Circle 2 - Durability = Mystic Armor wink.gif


Yeah, it makes me angry that people need to take drain from casting out of a Matrix too. I completely agree with that and I wish there was some sort of game balancing method that I could introduce. I figured that most magicians would put perhaps 2 spells in their matrices at a lower force to increase their overall versatility and the drain code would be so ridiculously low that they would never take damage. However, I like that you mentioned that spells cast out of a matrix take longer to manifest. Now, if you want to work threads into this new system, I would run it off of the force rating of the spell. Oh wow, I just had a great idea. Ok, I'll continue working on my adept section and thank you for the ideas as that actually makes my life easier when it comes to threading. Oh and just a spoiler, the Beastmaster may end up as a very beefy adept rather than a spell caster.
Tobias
Regarding the reattuning of the matrices, I don't think the extended test with the 10 minute interval works that well. In EDC you could just take 10 minutes and just reattune all your matrices. But if you wanted to reattune spells you choose a matrix, took damage and then rolled against the thread difficulty. I don't know if this is what you wanted but with a 10 minute interval to change spells without casting raw means you just are stuck with your 2 spells. I'd recommend the interval at a complex action. And if you work out the threading stuff as complex actions just fits in I believe.

But it could be that i'm currently setting up a campaign for EDC so I have my ED hat on.
Hatspur
QUOTE (Tobias @ May 6 2008, 09:07 AM) *
Regarding the reattuning of the matrices, I don't think the extended test with the 10 minute interval works that well. In EDC you could just take 10 minutes and just reattune all your matrices. But if you wanted to reattune spells you choose a matrix, took damage and then rolled against the thread difficulty. I don't know if this is what you wanted but with a 10 minute interval to change spells without casting raw means you just are stuck with your 2 spells. I'd recommend the interval at a complex action. And if you work out the threading stuff as complex actions just fits in I believe.

But it could be that i'm currently setting up a campaign for EDC so I have my ED hat on.


Yup, you're right. I went through the chapter on matrices again and it was 10 minutes to rearrange ALL of your matrices. I will put a correction in my next post's addendum.

I'm going to post one in about an hour, then one later in the day, and then one in the evening PST.
Hatspur
Magic cont.

[ Spoiler ]
Hatspur
Magic cont. p3

[ Spoiler ]
fistandantilus4.0
I like the threads and the adept power convertions and costs. Looks real good man.
SinN
Wow, this whole thread is interesting as hell. I just used Horror touch on one my guys charactors. He went toe to toe with a horror recently in New Orleans. He didnt kill it, but it marked him, and his friend bargained for his life. So he was let go. What he doesnt know is that the horror left a thread in him. Over the next little while hes just going to be making the thread stronger and eventually take full control of him again. Hehe. vegm.gif devil.gif
Hatspur
Good, I'm glad my stuff is finding some use. I'll post the equipment chapter tomorrow including the conversion rates for Throal, Theran, and other Barsaive currencies. I have no intention to alter damage codes or any flow of combat, except for including shields and the rules for blocking with one. I'm probably going to use rules for breaking barriers and normal rules for parrying. Oh, and if someone has a bright idea about what to do with armor without blatantly ripping a section off of d20, I would like to hear it. It will definetly not give you a deflection bonus and function just like 4e armor on a basic level, but I see no reason to keep ballistic rating. The big challenge I have to work through now is the wealth/BP formula. I almost included a Nobility quality but decided that it wouldn't really fit the Earthdawn flavor.
Hatspur
This list will consist of regular and fantasy critters. This list could also be applied to Shadowrun too. The regular critters can be taken as bonded animals while the fantasy ones cannot. By all means, If you see something that I missed, like a poison spur on the Platypus, let me know and I will fix it. There are rules for dogs, great cats, horses, sharks and wolves in BBB pg. 291, and this serves as an expanded list. Change the Wolf Agility stat to 5 to reflect balance with other animals on this list.
You would be amazed at how much easier having access to a little children's encyclopedia about animals made this.

Addendum
The adpet power Animal Bond has been updated:

Animal Bond: .5 per level
This power allows the Adept to have one animal bound to him with a body of 1 per level of the ability. The adept may alternatively have several animals with a body rating of 1, several animals at a rating of 2, or one huge animal with a body rating equal to the bond. For Example: Tivera the Beastmaster had 4 levels of Animal bond (Taking up 2 points of Magic). She decides to have a wild cat and a domestic cat as her bound animals (one with a body of 3 and the other with a body of 1). If the animal dies, its space can be filled by bonding another animal and spending karma points equal to the beast's body to bind the animal. Bound animals serve the adept and follow him everywhere he goes unless commanded otherwise. Bound animals cannot stray more than 5 miles from the adept or the bond is lost.

I also forgot to include the Mystic Adept Quality

Mystic Adept: 20BP
This quality allows the character to both cast spells by choosing a spellcasting tradition and internally channel magic like an adept. This quality works exactly how it would from the mystic Adept quality on BBB pg.79.

Critters
[ Spoiler ]
Hatspur
Addendum
Kyoto kid brought this to my attention in the stats 4 cats thread in General Discussion. So I gave the house cat a bit more skill love.

Cat, Domestic:
These statistics represent the average housecat. They range in color and size just like normal cats.
B A R S C I L W EDG ESS Init IP
1 5 5 1 3 4 1 4 4 6 9 2
Movement: 20/35
Skills: Infiltration 4, Perception 4, Con 2, Shadowing 2 (Stalking +2), Climb 4 (Rough surfaces +2), Gymnastics 3 (Jumping +2)
Powers: Natural Weapon (Claws: DV 1P, AP 0), Low Light Vision
Qualities: Blandness, Phobia Common/Moderate (Bodies of Water)

Wealth/BP formula, Armor
[ Spoiler ]
fistandantilus4.0
If you're going to break up Ballistic/Impact into someting else, I don't think Projectile is the way to go. Most types of armor back "in the day" held well against piercing, slashing, or blunt trauma. You can mostly break that down to Piercing or Blunt. The idea of stuff like chain mail was to take a hit that should be slicing and convert it to blunt force. So you could go with Impact(blunt, whatever) and Piecring (slashing whatever) Chain mail for example doesn't do much at all against blunt force like a war hammer. It's meant to stop cutting actions.

I point on posting format BTW: you might want to try putting your large texts shots into Spoiler boxes to save on space and long scrolls down the page. Neaten the page up a bit. smile.gif
Hatspur
That sounds like an outstanding idea. Now if you could give me a brief tutorial about the quick access bar on the side, because I've been fiddling with it for a while now and I have no idea how to create a spoiler tag.
Fortune
Spoilers are created by typing ...

{spoiler}Things that spoil!{/spoiler} ... replacing {} with []. smile.gif
Hatspur
And..... fixed!

I'm going to try to make it up to Portland today and get some more Earthdawn fluff. Be back tomorrow.
Hatspur
Too much work and time spent on the blood charms. I was originally going to make Street sams still mechanically possible with wealth and other things, but then I decided it was too much work and violated just a bit too much of Earthdawn for my taste.

I have a question, I found a reference somewhere that Barsaive comprises most of what is present day Ukraine. Is this correct or do I have bad sources?
fistandantilus4.0
That's the general consensus.

For Blood charms, you could look a little bit at the Theran SB, it talks more in depth about things like that, including full crystal arm replacements. But Earthdawn is very much more about the Adepts and Mages than street sams types. I wouldn't worry about that aspect too much. After all, in a standard ED game all of the PCs are Adepts. Work to your target audience.
Raven Bloodeyes
That area would be correct.... for a long thread on it with nice visuals... see:

http://www.earthdawn.com/forum/index.php?topic=410.0
Hatspur
Other Equipment, Addendums
The Weapons from Aresenal and BBB pg. 305 should be sufficient in terms of normal weaponry. There costs out of the Earthdawn book will used in place of their nuyen values in either Aresenal or the BBB. Costs for the other provisions and services remain the same as in the Earthdawn core rulebook.

Addendum
Fistandantilus was right about armor values. I honestly wasn't sure how to do that one myself but I like your suggestion. The armor values for Projectile will be changed to Piercing. Piercing Weapons are any weapons intended to pierce an opponent rather than cause harm using blunt force trauma. Most larger swords do Impact damage, smaller swords and daggers deal piercing damage, bows and crossbows do piercing damage. Spears will do piercing, hammers will do impact, Axes will do Piercing. If there is any question what kind of damage the weapon deals, talk it through with the GM to find out what he feels is reasonable.
[ Spoiler ]

There doesn't seem to be much left to convert and even this section isn't really necessary. If there's something else I need to post that I might have forgotten, just let me know. I don't feel I need to convert more of Earthdawn into 4e. I would like to say thank you to Bloodeyes for giving me a link that lead me to all kinds of cool maps for Earthdawn. And if the reader feels the need to contribute or comment, be my guest.
quentra
Yeah, its right as far I recall, but the climate is radically different.
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