Suppressed SMGs aren't totally silent, but they're pretty silent. I found a few good videos on YouTube. I remember how in the SR3 BBB on the perception test tables it for example gives seperate TNs for detecting a silenced gunshot, as opposed to treating it as being totally silent. I guess that a component of any quality RPG or video game should really be degrees of silence for suppressed weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UclVL1COUQ...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTlhq1cFdiA...feature=related

I ought to retire in a state that would let me own automatic weapons like that...it would be a great retirement activity to operate them.

Yes, a suppressed SMG is really neat especially when you're standing in the firing lane one over and you don't hear that much noise at all, mostly the clicking of the gun... though after firing on the AK and AR-15, lots of things are quieter...

Well, what's more important is you have to be approved by the ATF to be able to have an automatic weapon. The state, well it's not just state jurisdictions, I know you need the sheriff's approval in some local jurisdictions (such as in Virginia) before you can get some of the different stuff, such as the short barrel license (probably also automatic, I'll ask my buddy about that). Plus, start saving up because they're expensive to own and with ammo being so expensive these days you can blow away hundreds of dollars easily in a month from firing on full auto.

yeah, the best suppressors I can seem to find only provide about 30-35 DB of sound attenuation, which is still quite loud, as a rifle shot is around 95-100 DB.

90-100 is a decent range for handguns. Rifles hang out in the 120-140 range.

Suppressors on rifles turn "Oh God! My Ears!" into "You know, that was pretty loud."

you know, with the advances in computation power and understanding of fluid dynamics, you'd think we could do better than 40db for any handgun or rifle round, but apparently the demand isn't there.

Well, one big factor at that point is the munitions, because if you use subsonic rounds, yes, you can make it pretty quiet. Problem is that there is a drop then in velocity and that translates to other stuff that you'd want. Now with supersonic rounds, well, even if you quiet the weapon, the round is still leaving out the barrel at such a high speed, there's a problem there. That and also, the supersonic round, more powder packed there, bigger bang noise.

Although you have to admit the SMGs in the YouTubes were very quiet.

I would guess that a SMG would be quieter than a handgun because the longer barrel lets more of the gunpowder be burned in the barrel.

This is why a M4 carbine is louder than a M16 rifle.

Many people underestimate how much mechanical noise firearms make, aside from the gunshot. You are typically slamming two pieces of metal together at high speed. Hit a hammer with a hammer and you are in the right ballpark. Suppressors don't do anything for this source of noise.

Bolt-action firearms are the obvious exception.

Which is why the De Lisle carbine is such a nice choice.

I actually found those MP5SD videos to be pretty loud.

the difference between suppressed and not is the difference between

"wtf was that?"

and "Holy shit, gunshots!"

De Lisle carbines are really the pwn. I can't believe they don't make them today for posterity's sake.

Historical reproductions are one thing, but any modern magazine-fed, bolt-action rifle firing subsonic ammo (.300 Whisper comes to mind) from a modern suppressor would probably outperform it across the board.

The historical version has got panache, though. Bolt action .45ACP FTW. Damn, it should be statted up for Shadowrun. And then we need rules in SR differentiating between degrees of silence to make the bolt action and the subsonic round the pwn.

I'm personally fond of "The Silent Destroyer".

It's generally an integrally suppressed Ruger 77/44, but I have heard of them being built on the lever action 96/44.

I do think the De Lisle, in .45 ACP, is a great weapon. The 77/44 is a bit more versatile, though. Being a .44 Magnum, it gives you a bit more room for heavier bullets for the sub-sonic cartridges, or you can run higher velocities, if you're not too worried about the increased noise level.

I'd gladly own or shoot either one, given the chance.

It certainly does.

Old guns are generally heavy, bulky, and often finicky compared to modern guns.

Damn, they have style though.

Capt. Jack Harkness of Torchwood has his pick of any handgun he wants, and he carries a WW2 service revolver.

...Cause it has style.

I'd say give another -1 for each factor. This would give a Delisle a -6 dice not -4 dice.

Looking at the perception rules on Pg 117, I see something odd. Hearing a normal gunshot requires 1 success, but a suppressed gunshot requires 2 hits. Do they mean a threshold of 2 in addition to the -4 to the perception pool?