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Shiloh
I like beer. All countries have mass-produced horse piss, but anecdotal evidence suggests to me that Europe's regional brewers are better established than in the US, with the US having a stronger microbrewery scene. Modern technology applied to traditional brewing has allowed some very fine draught ales to be transported further afield from their home bases than has historically been possible without unacceptable deterioration in quality. I imagine the sheer scale of the US contributes to the balkanisation of its market; you have many of demand which are spaced further from the next by more than the length of England...
nezumi
There are limitations on what can ferment. The yeast requires a friendly liquid to survive in (generally a water base). The most common problem with fermenting strange liquids comes in here; you can't easily ferment orange juice because it's too acidic. However, with appropriate technology, you could probably make a yeast hybrid which can do this anyway. Secondly, of course, is yeast food, sugar. You can add this separately (yum high fructose corn syrup! It makes my beer cheap!)

Really, 'beer' is easy to make. Get a staple crop, mash it up, add water and, if necessary, sugar. Let it sit in a closed container for a few weeks. Poof! Alcoholic staple-based drink! Huzzah! You can use potatoes, corn, rice, whatever. Obviously, most of these aren't actually 'beer'. Fermented rice rink is sake, rice wine. No idea what the corn-wine would be called. Beer is just malt-wine, with some hops as a preservative.

The expensive parts of brewing beer are the malt and hops. Hops are easy to replace with a synthetic analogy. So we can be pretty sure there'll be something like that. Malt is also fairly expensive, so we'll need something to replace that with, preferable something we can grow in hydroponics. Then, because this concoction doesn't really taste like beer, we'll need some synthetic flavoring as well. Because of our excellent technology, this might be some sort of petroleum-based polymer which is cheap to mass produce. It changes the consistency a little, but it genuinely tastes sort of like a frothy brown liquid you might imbibe when you were suicidally depressed, and clinical tests have suggested it simply passes harmlessly through the body.

What do you have after that? Mmm "BEER"!
CanRay
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 7 2008, 08:57 AM) *
No idea what the corn-wine would be called.

Moonshine, as any True Northerner or US Southerner will know. nyahnyah.gif
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 7 2008, 07:57 AM) *
There are limitations on what can ferment. The yeast requires a friendly liquid to survive in (generally a water base). The most common problem with fermenting strange liquids comes in here; you can't easily ferment orange juice because it's too acidic. However, with appropriate technology, you could probably make a yeast hybrid which can do this anyway. Secondly, of course, is yeast food, sugar. You can add this separately (yum high fructose corn syrup! It makes my beer cheap!)

Really, 'beer' is easy to make. Get a staple crop, mash it up, add water and, if necessary, sugar. Let it sit in a closed container for a few weeks. Poof! Alcoholic staple-based drink! Huzzah! You can use potatoes, corn, rice, whatever. Obviously, most of these aren't actually 'beer'. Fermented rice rink is sake, rice wine. No idea what the corn-wine would be called. Beer is just malt-wine, with some hops as a preservative.

The expensive parts of brewing beer are the malt and hops. Hops are easy to replace with a synthetic analogy. So we can be pretty sure there'll be something like that. Malt is also fairly expensive, so we'll need something to replace that with, preferable something we can grow in hydroponics. Then, because this concoction doesn't really taste like beer, we'll need some synthetic flavoring as well. Because of our excellent technology, this might be some sort of petroleum-based polymer which is cheap to mass produce. It changes the consistency a little, but it genuinely tastes sort of like a frothy brown liquid you might imbibe when you were suicidally depressed, and clinical tests have suggested it simply passes harmlessly through the body.

What do you have after that? Mmm "BEER"!

Malt is Malted Grains, so a wide variety of Grains can be grown hydroponically.

Hops were added late into the brewing technology chain, there were other items used before hops become prevalent. As of today any synthetic hop analogs are too expensive compared to the costs of grown hops.

And CanRay is correct about MoonShine, but that can be made from Rye instead of Corn.

WMS
CanRay
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 7 2008, 09:21 AM) *
And CanRay is correct about MoonShine, but that can be made from Rye instead of Corn.

WMS

Some is made from Rye, others Corn, or Potatoes (A stronger version of Vodka, really). There's lots of ways of making it.
nezumi
I believe moonshine is distilled at least once. That's why I didn't say potato-wine is vodka. Vodka has a minimum proof, and you're unlikely to get either corn-wine or potato-wine to a proof of more than about 25 without distillation.

Hops are currently not worh making artificially, but of course, that'll change by 2050. Similarly, while malted grains are just processed cereal grains, the price is already significantly higher than non-malted grains, and in a world where most people can't afford to eat better than soy, I suspect that malt will be eliminated completely from the process, hence soy or rice. I have to imagine 2050 average "beer" is basically flavored soy/rice-wine.

CanRay
Of course, you can just say, "Frag it!" and have an Orkstaff XXX, the 180 Proof beer! (See Arsenal)
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 7 2008, 08:56 AM) *
I believe moonshine is distilled at least once. That's why I didn't say potato-wine is vodka. Vodka has a minimum proof, and you're unlikely to get either corn-wine or potato-wine to a proof of more than about 25 without distillation.

Hops are currently not worh making artificially, but of course, that'll change by 2050. Similarly, while malted grains are just processed cereal grains, the price is already significantly higher than non-malted grains, and in a world where most people can't afford to eat better than soy, I suspect that malt will be eliminated completely from the process, hence soy or rice. I have to imagine 2050 average "beer" is basically flavored soy/rice-wine.

grinbig.gif There is no minimum level of alcohol content for any distilled spirits. Depending on the mashing technique and the distilling process/technologies used the alcohol content can vary from 20% to 90%. Yes local, state, and federal laws can place a minimum but most to just tax the percentage of alcohol in the beverage. Ie they want higher content because that means higher taxes.

Get out this Wine term usage please. grinbig.gif
Wine is an alcoholic beverage made from the fermentation of grape juice.
Beer is an alcoholic beverage produced by the fermentation of sugars derived from starch-based material.
Ale is a type of beer brewed from malted barley using a top-fermenting brewers' yeast.
Mead is a fermented alcoholic beverage made of honey, water, and yeast.
Cider is an alcoholic beverage made from the fermented juice of apples mainly, though pears are also used in the UK, pear cider is known as perry

In the United States, "rye whiskey" is, by law, made from a mash of at least 51 percent rye. (The other ingredients of the mash are usually corn and malted barley.) It is distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof, and aged in charred, new oak barrels. The whiskey must be put into such barrels at not more than 125 (U.S.) proof. Rye whiskey which has been so aged for at least 2 years may be further designated as "straight", as in "straight rye whiskey". Rye whiskey was the prevalent whiskey of the northeastern states, especially Pennsylvania and Maryland, but largely disappeared after Prohibition.

Any Canadian whisky is often referred to as "rye whisky", since historically much of the content was from rye. Now, however, most Canadian whisky is blended with only a minority of rye. There is no requirement for any rye to be included in the blend used to make whiskies with the legally-identical labels "Canadian Whisky", "Canadian Rye Whisky" nor "Rye Whisky" in Canada, provided they "possess the aroma, taste and character generally attributed to Canadian whisky"[3]. In some cases, the corn-to-rye ratio may be as high as 9:1. In contrast with the US "rye whiskey" counterpart, a minimum of 3 years of small (<=700l/~185USG) wooden barrel aging is required for the "Canadian Whisky", "Canadian Rye Whisky" and "Rye Whisky" labels, although they need not be new oak, nor charred, necessarily.

Sour mash is the name for a process in the distilling industry that uses material from an older batch of mash to start fermentation in the batch currently being made, similar to the making of sourdough bread. It was developed by either Dr. James C. Crow or Dr. Jason S. Amburgey while they were working at the Old Oscar Pepper Distillery (now the Woodford Reserve Distillery) in Woodford County, Kentucky. Sour mash is not a type or flavor of whiskey, as is commonly thought.

The mash is the mixture of fermented grain and water from which the raw "beer" is made. In the sour mash process an established and active strain of live yeast is introduced into a grain & water mixture that is to be fermented. By using an established and known fermented "sour", this fermentation process controls the introduction and growth of foreign bacteria and yeasts that could damage the whiskey, and improves the consistency and quality of the liquor, so that every bottle tastes as close to the same as possible. Sour mash is popular in bourbon whiskey and Tennessee whiskey.

IIRC the costs to produce a case of 12 bottles of grain neutral spirits ie Vodka including packaging is about $20.00, but the taxes state and federal is over $60.00, that was a few years ago, so the taxes are higher now I bet.

Malting is letting the grains germinate aka sprout.

Growing rice and growing grains hydroponically is about the same tech wise and cost wise.

WMS
Wounded Ronin
*raises hand*

I'm special because I have had the experience of drinking tuba, which is just alcoholic fermented yeast, in the Federated States of Micronesia. It tastes a bit sour and it continues to make you more drunk while it's in your stomach.
ornot
I reckon that beer will be made by diluting industrially distilled alcohol and adding flavourings. People already make cheap imitations of spirits that way (and man are they nasty!) and it's a small step from that to beer.

It would be easy with 2070 tech to engineer a highly alcohol tolerant yeast, and grow a sugar rich crop (of sugar perhaps) in large amounts. Ferment it for a few weeks, boil off the alcohols, dilute, flavour and bottle. Probably easier to do on a massive scale than making proper beer or wine or spirits or any of these.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 7 2008, 09:56 AM) *
*raises hand*

I'm special because I have had the experience of drinking tuba, which is just alcoholic fermented yeast, in the Federated States of Micronesia. It tastes a bit sour and it continues to make you more drunk while it's in your stomach.

Years ago while station in Great Mistakes, Ill Naval Station, I could go into Wisconsin and buy still fermenting ciders from a road side stand. Different flaver.

Tuba ah a palm wine? Guess you never tried the 1, 2 or 3 day coconuts? grinbig.gif

Also we have today we have yeasts able to tolerate very high alcohol levels with out any techno tricks. How they make a Sherry yeast.

WMS
Daddy's Little Ninja
malt does more than Milton can
to explain God's ways to man.
ornot
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 7 2008, 05:43 PM) *
Years ago while station in Great Mistakes, Ill Naval Station, I could go into Wisconsin and buy still fermenting ciders from a road side stand. Different flaver.

Tuba ah a palm wine? Guess you never tried the 1, 2 or 3 day coconuts? grinbig.gif

Also we have today we have yeasts able to tolerate very high alcohol levels with out any techno tricks. How they make a Sherry yeast.

WMS


By high tolerance, I was thinking up to the 40 or 50 proof level. To my knowledge we don't have any that can go quite that high, but brewing yeast is a good example of the resilience and versatility of microorganisms. Don't get me started on FAB though...
hobgoblin
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 7 2008, 04:39 PM) *
Some is made from Rye, others Corn, or Potatoes (A stronger version of Vodka, really). There's lots of ways of making it.


hmm, potatos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akevitt

oh, and i would say that most of the clear alcohols could be called legalized moonshine wink.gif
nezumi
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 7 2008, 11:50 AM) *
grinbig.gif There is no minimum level of alcohol content for any distilled spirits.


Yes, but if it's distilled, it's not beer, now is it? So corn-wine is still not moonshine.

Anyway, yes, many distilled spirits do have a minimum proof requirement. In the EU, the minimum is 37.5% by volume, otherwise it's not considered vodka. It's just distilled potato-wine.

QUOTE
Get out this Wine term usage please. grinbig.gif
Wine is an alcoholic beverage made from the fermentation of grape juice.


That's not the complete defintion.

the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc.: gooseberry wine; currant wine.

Hence, sake is regularly called 'rice-wine' (not a term made up by me). ANY plant material that is turned into mash, fermented, and presumably not wood alcohol is called wine. If you go to the second paragraph of your wikipedia entry, you'll see that detailed right there.

I know you're really proud you brew beer, but firstly, you're not the only one here. I too brew regularly. And secondly, it doesn't mean you're somehow an expert and justified in waving wiki entries in front of other people as though you have a college degree in it.


QUOTE
Growing rice and growing grains hydroponically is about the same tech wise and cost wise.


I seem to recollect there are reasons you can't grow many grains hydroponically. Corn I'm pretty sure can't be grown that way (although I could be wrong). Regardless, the process of turning grain into malt adds another step and therefore additional cost, and it certainly detracts from the dystopian setting. I'm pretty sure that people who are barely making enough to afford dog food aren't going to be able to pay the additional processing expenses required to get real beer over reprocessed wine.
CanRay
Dog food is for the rich people in the Barrens!

Oh, wait, you're talking the dry kibble type, washed down with the polluted water that falls constantly from the smog-filled clouds to make the gravey in your belly.

Never mind.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (ornot @ Jul 7 2008, 11:15 AM) *
By high tolerance, I was thinking up to the 40 or 50 proof level. To my knowledge we don't have any that can go quite that high, but brewing yeast is a good example of the resilience and versatility of microorganisms. Don't get me started on FAB though...

IIRC the most that have been bred is to about 30%, but is due to the multiple generations of yeast being subjected to gradually increasing amount of alcohol content, over many cycles of production.

But using the gene splicing tech of SR4 you can have an organism(s) that breaks down cellulose into simple sugars then ferments them.

WMS
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 7 2008, 11:56 AM) *
Yes, but if it's distilled, it's not beer, now is it? So corn-wine is still not moonshine.

Anyway, yes, many distilled spirits do have a minimum proof requirement. In the EU, the minimum is 37.5% by volume, otherwise it's not considered vodka. It's just distilled potato-wine.

That's not the complete defintion.

the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc.: gooseberry wine; currant wine.

Hence, sake is regularly called 'rice-wine' (not a term made up by me). ANY plant material that is turned into mash, fermented, and presumably not wood alcohol is called wine. If you go to the second paragraph of your wikipedia entry, you'll see that detailed right there.

I know you're really proud you brew beer, but firstly, you're not the only one here. I too brew regularly. And secondly, it doesn't mean you're somehow an expert and justified in waving wiki entries in front of other people as though you have a college degree in it.

I seem to recollect there are reasons you can't grow many grains hydroponically. Corn I'm pretty sure can't be grown that way (although I could be wrong). Regardless, the process of turning grain into malt adds another step and therefore additional cost, and it certainly detracts from the dystopian setting. I'm pretty sure that people who are barely making enough to afford dog food aren't going to be able to pay the additional processing expenses required to get real beer over reprocessed wine.

On the use of the Wine term we disagree. I prefer to deal in specifics rather than generalizations regarding such. Just like if I walked into 100 liquor stores or 100 bars and asked for Potato Wine what would I get a bottle of Vodka?, strange looks? grinbig.gif or the bartenders asking the next person what they wanted?. grinbig.gif

Go and read the whiskey text I posted, most distilled spirits are way above 80 proof when distilled, it is after the various maturation/aging that it gets diluted to the various alcohol strengths.

Many current day crops can be grown hydroponically, all crops can be grown, if the economic incentives are great enough.

WMS
JeffSz
QUOTE (ArkonC @ Jul 6 2008, 01:58 PM) *
See, that just proves how unimportant it really is...
I've never been in a bar that ran out of beer in Belgium or Germany...


Wikipedia's "Beer Consumption Per Capita": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...tion_per_capita

In Canada, we don't drink as much beer by volume as half the countries on that list (including Germany and the USA). Our "identity" as beer drinkers comes from our excellent quality beer, which, incidentally, came from German and Irish settlers, as well as our ideal climate for brewing beer (this was before refrigeration!).



fun factaroo:
Alcohol percentages on US beer are labeled according to Weight so that a 3.2% (by weight) beer in the US is actually equivalent to a 4% beer in Canada (by volume), and in Canada they are labeled by Volume.

However, US labels must declare the MAXIMUM amount of alcohol content, (so a 3.2% American beer would contain absolutely no more than 4% alcohol by volume) while Canadian labels must declare the MINIMUM amount (so a 5.1% beer in Canada would have absolutely no less than 5.1% alcohol content by volume)

Fun huh?
FrankTrollman
Czech Beer is the best in the world, hands down, no available argument. More beer is drunk per person in the Czech Republic than in any other country by a huge margin, and that's not an accident. The beer here is just a lot better and cheaper than it is anywhere else on Earth.

Kozel, Budwar, Pilsner Urquell, and Gambrinus all hold up very very well. In their price range you can't even make a vague assault on the vaunted position of Krusovice or Branik.

-Frank
hermit
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 6 2008, 08:45 PM) *
As a Canadian, this is an important question for me...

What are the brands of Beer around in Shadowrun?

Well, since I keep listings of such trivia items from canon sources (german canon included, including several novels) ... you might notice that some 90% of the brands are German. Apparently, German authors really dislike the idea of generic soy beer. However, Tom Dowd contributed a lot to this, too.

Kanschlager Bier (German export beer, brewed in Deggendorf, bavaria) [N03]
Suntory-Bier
Tsingtao Soybier
Budweiser Soybeer
Soyweiser

Black Dog Beer (A hawai'ian specialty beer, brewed locally. It's strong, nutty flavour is comparable to german yeast beers and Starkbier)
Guinnes (Elves didn't change a bit about it's goodness)
Wicküler Soybier (from a small brewery in the Wuppertal arcology, North Rhine-Ruhr megaplex, Germany)
Veltins Soybier (north german soy beer brand)
Welsh Guinness (really low grade soy beer)
Becks Soybier (another northern german soy beer brand)
Wedel Pils (and yet another)
Riesenhuber Urbock (from the troll kingdom of Black Forest, a favourtie among metahumans of the larger kinds)
St.Georg Pils (a beer from Westphalia, the church republic among germany's states, exported worldwide)
SuBeer (it's made from leftovers of the soy beer production process; tastes as horrible as this sounds)
Heineken Lager (An Aztechnology brand.)
Heineken Christmas Special (Cinnamon flavoured! Yes, the Azzies are evil.)
Carlsberg Beer (another Aztech beer brand.)
Buttinger Bier (and more German soy beer)
Animal-Schmidt-Bier (Beer catering to trolls and orks)
Oil Can Beer (Beer sold in oil cans for fun. Also catering to orks and trolls, presumably.)
Paulaner (southern German beer)
Löwenbräu Pils (more southern german beer)
Maisels Weisse (franconian light beer, a local specialty of the state of Franconia in Germany)
Augustiner (more German beer)
Flensburger Soybier (more german beer, north German again)
Julianerbräu (bavarian beer, brewed in Munich)
Aboriginee Special (an Australian beer brand)
Mann`s Malt Violence (american beer)
Mann`s Crazy Brew (more american beer)

Hope this helps you out. All this is from (german) canon sources, with distinctly more german than american influence. And yes, no Czech beers among them. Shame, since, as Frank put it:

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Czech Beer is the best in the world, hands down, no available argument. More beer is drunk per person in the Czech Republic than in any other country by a huge margin, and that's not an accident. The beer here is just a lot better and cheaper than it is anywhere else on Earth.

All that's left to say here is "QF f'in T".
ornot
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 7 2008, 07:10 PM) *
IIRC the most that have been bred is to about 30%, but is due to the multiple generations of yeast being subjected to gradually increasing amount of alcohol content, over many cycles of production.

But using the gene splicing tech of SR4 you can have an organism(s) that breaks down cellulose into simple sugars then ferments them.

WMS


You mean like this?

You may be a home brewer, but I'm a microbiologist. Don't try to lecture me on my pet bugs.
CanRay
QUOTE (ornot @ Jul 8 2008, 08:01 AM) *
You mean like this?

You may be a home brewer, but I'm a microbiologist. Don't try to lecture me on my pet bugs.

Careful. Pissing off a Microbiologist is almost as bad as pissing off a Shadowrunning Accountant!

And if he's a 'Runner, you better watch out! A Kitchen Sink, a Petri Dish, and some Sewing Needles become a weapon!
ornot
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 8 2008, 02:46 PM) *
Careful. Pissing off a Microbiologist is almost as bad as pissing off a Shadowrunning Accountant!

And if he's a 'Runner, you better watch out! A Kitchen Sink, a Petri Dish, and some Sewing Needles become a weapon!


Hehe.

I think a chemist is worse. You need some pretty sophisticated equipment to do much with biology, and the human immune system is particularly well adapted to fighting off biological threats. I could whip up a batch of botulin toxin reasonably easily, but even then I'm possibly more likely to kill myself than another Dumpshocker!
CanRay
Whereas a Chemist with access to a Kitchen Sink, has access to a Kitchen. And cleaning supplies.

I learned quite a bit from my days as only a Janitor. Do *NOT* mix certain chemicals together!

But, we're off topic again!

OK, Home-Brewing! Doing a Shadowbusiness making Bathtub Gin!

Suggestions for doing so... GO!
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (ornot @ Jul 8 2008, 08:01 AM) *
You mean like this?

You may be a home brewer, but I'm a microbiologist. Don't try to lecture me on my pet bugs.

rotfl.gif I was not lecturing, trust me you will know that. devil.gif

But remember not everyone here has the depth of knowledge that you possess, so like in RL I was speaking to the lowest common factor. grinbig.gif

WMS
paws2sky
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 8 2008, 09:22 AM) *
But remember not everyone here has the depth of knowledge that you possess, so like in RL I was speaking to the lowest common factor. grinbig.gif


He means people like me. I know next to nothing about brewing or microbiology, but this thread is still fascinating. spin.gif

I'm making a list of brews to sample. We have this little carryout south of campus that import beers from, well, just about everywhere. I'm sure they'll have at least some of these.

Fun Fact: did you know Tabasco sauce is aged in old whiskey barrels?
(See, I contributed something... whee.)

-paws
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jul 8 2008, 09:57 AM) *
He means people like me. I know next to nothing about brewing or microbiology, but this thread is still fascinating. spin.gif

I'm making a list of brews to sample. We have this little carryout south of campus that import beers from, well, just about everywhere. I'm sure they'll have at least some of these.

Fun Fact: did you know Tabasco sauce is aged in old whiskey barrels?
(See, I contributed something... whee.)

-paws

American Whiskey Barrels have an interesting life after being "Discarded" by the American Distillers. grinbig.gif

Tabasco is fairly mild for me.

Good Luck on your Beer Hunt. grinbig.gif

WMS
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 7 2008, 11:43 AM) *
Tuba ah a palm wine? Guess you never tried the 1, 2 or 3 day coconuts? grinbig.gif


I have not personally drank alcoholic coconut water, as finding those was mostly a matter of luck in foraging. They were not generally available and people often preferred to purchase imported American or Philipino rotgut, such as White Wolf vodka, Baja tequila, or Tanduay Philipino rum (which if you pour it in front of a light source looks kind of pinkish).

EDIT:

http://www.tanduay.com/

Tanduay controls your destiny.
Wounded Ronin
Oh, incidentally, the worst beer I ever drank was from the People's Republic of China.

It came in a can that was designed to look like a Budweiser can, and IIRC it was so cheap in the FSM that I decided to get a few cans and drink it. However, when I cracked open one of the cans and sipped, it was so bad that in spite of my valiant chugging efforts I couldn't get more than about 2/3 of the can down my gullet.

It actually didn't really taste like beer. It tasted like the fermenting liquid you get right before you have beer. The contents of the can was barely carbonated, and it had a sickly sweet and cloying taste. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory was canning the semi-fermented slop instead of actual beer.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 8 2008, 10:04 AM) *
I have not personally drank alcoholic coconut water, as finding those was mostly a matter of luck in foraging. They were not generally available and people often preferred to purchase imported American or Philipino rotgut, such as White Wolf vodka, Baja tequila, or Tanduay Philipino rum (which if you pour it in front of a light source looks kind of pinkish).

EDIT:

http://www.tanduay.com/

Tanduay controls your destiny.

The Coconut reference was taken from a book on the drinking of US Service men during the various wars, in the Pacific during WWII coconuts were part of it, the older coconuts were better but some one usually drank them before they got too old.

I understand about PI rum, at least the one you describe did not have oil floating on the surface, like the ones I drank from years ago. grinbig.gif

WMS
Oracle
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 6 2008, 09:14 PM) *
Becks, Flensburger, Radelberger, Holsten . . GERMAN Beers . .
i don't even drink beer, but even i know that american beer is . . bad at best . .


Most US brands wouldn't even qualify for the term 'beer' in Germany.

Or to quote the mighty Durkon Thundershield: "I ordered a beer, an' this seems ta be a tankard o' moose urine." That's how I felt quite often, when I visited the USA. wink.gif

Becks is just a mass market product. Other brands worth of note are 'Jever Pils', which is slightly too bitter for some people, with a lot of hops and a strong taste, 'Erdinger', a great Bavarian Weissbier or 'Herrenhäuser', which is a local brand from Hannover, which I only mention because of local patriotism. *g*

Btw: I'm pretty sure it's 'Radeberger', not 'Radelberger'.
CanRay
On one of my trips to the US, I didn't feel like polluting myself with US Beer, and found out they sold "Molson Export", a Canadian Brand (My Father's favourite, actually). So, I ordered that.

Turns out, "US Export Only", and it was Sex in a Canoe as well.

Impressed the hell out of my friends at how much I could drink, however.
Chrysalis
Americans often brag about how much they can drink especially here in Finland. We take them out with a friend of mine and usually they can't last three beers, let alone the shots we take. My liver usually gives out when my friend gets a tingle in his hands.

-Chrysalis
Shiloh
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jul 9 2008, 01:47 PM) *
Americans often brag about how much they can drink especially here in Finland. We take them out with a friend of mine and usually they can't last three beers, let alone the shots we take. My liver usually gives out when my friend gets a tingle in his hands.

-Chrysalis


Australians, on the other hand, are a different kettle of cirrhosis... smile.gif I was taught about hangovers by an Ozzie master on a skiing holiday in Austria. I wasn't familiar with the phenomenon (ah those were the days) and I could have sworn it was just the altitude. It was educational to learn of the general attitude to what constitutes heavy drinking in the US: it'd be a normal weekday night out for a lot of the UK. Probably a much more healthy outlook, but not conducive to keeping up with firm-livered Finns and Ozzies, or even my dad (who was taught by Poles in the RAF) in drinking.
masterofm
What about yams? Personally I'm shocked that soy is more common then yams in SR? Africa has yam beers.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jul 9 2008, 07:47 AM) *
Americans often brag about how much they can drink especially here in Finland. We take them out with a friend of mine and usually they can't last three beers, let alone the shots we take. My liver usually gives out when my friend gets a tingle in his hands.

-Chrysalis


If that's the truth the blame falls squarely on watery mainstream beers, or worse yet, the lite beer phenomenon. If we look at the physiology of alcohol tolerance people who slam hard liquor should be in roughly the same boat the entire world over.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 9 2008, 10:33 AM) *
If that's the truth the blame falls squarely on watery mainstream beers, or worse yet, the lite beer phenomenon. If we look at the physiology of alcohol tolerance people who slam hard liquor should be in roughly the same boat the entire world over.


And so it is. I mean, I have seriously knocked down a half liter of 40% vodka in an evening or five liters of 12 degree beer in a day. That's entirely plausible for people from any part of the world. But the really dedicated drinkers of hard alcohol just put me to shame. I've seen a Finnish man half my mass go through a vodka bottle in half the time it would take me to drink it and only get horribly plastered. I've seen a Russian man go through the same vodka I was going through while cutting it with champagne instead of orange juice.

But of course, my old room mate from Indiana was a genuine alcoholic, and he would slam down more alcohol than any of that just to make it through the day.

-Frank
Shiloh
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 9 2008, 06:10 PM) *
...vodka...cutting it with champagne instead of orange juice...


Possibly the most devastated party I've ever been to began with champagne cocktails: a large brandy in a class of bubbly. The local Tescos had a 2-for-1 on Cava that weekend and people spent as much as they had budgeted anyway. Once the bubbly was gone, drunk people started making cocktails, mostly with absinthe bases... Absinthe, gin, vodka and tequila was the one that did for the host. A granny exploding, and the host's brother being sick in the host's shoes are the two most memorable of the acts of dissipation and outrage that occurred that night.

QUOTE
But of course, my old room mate from Indiana was a genuine alcoholic, and he would slam down more alcohol than any of that just to make it through the day.

And there we have the less amusing side of heroic consumption of alcohol. frown.gif
ArkonC
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jul 9 2008, 07:10 PM) *
And so it is. I mean, I have seriously knocked down a half liter of 40% vodka in an evening or five liters of 12 degree beer in a day. That's entirely plausible for people from any part of the world. But the really dedicated drinkers of hard alcohol just put me to shame. I've seen a Finnish man half my mass go through a vodka bottle in half the time it would take me to drink it and only get horribly plastered. I've seen a Russian man go through the same vodka I was going through while cutting it with champagne instead of orange juice.

But of course, my old room mate from Indiana was a genuine alcoholic, and he would slam down more alcohol than any of that just to make it through the day.

-Frank

There's a girl I regularly go out with who's originally from Siberia and she drink 2 bottles of vodka in the half our before we leave the house just to warm up...
The type of vodka her dad makes at home...
That gets me completely shitfaced after 1 sip...
And blind after the glass...

But oddly, give her 1 glass of red wine and she'll be dancing on the table...
CanRay
Someone apparently has blackmail material of me on wine at a wedding.
Prime Mover
"BEER it's not just for breakfast anymore !"

Honestly on the subject of american beer, imports will assure a near insane end to any evening. But drinking canoe water...aka coors light will allow you to drink for 42 hours striaght maintain a constant state of DoH! and still please your lady ;P

Never forget the first time I drank Fosters...the big can, rates right up there with my first Yeager Bombs.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Shiloh @ Jul 9 2008, 01:27 PM) *
And there we have the less amusing side of heroic consumption of alcohol. frown.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj4GJfPsk6o

Once at IIRC was a party I threw at a big motel room a friend of mine got so drunk that he staggered into the bathroom to vomit, disappeared there for a while, and came out totally naked without really knowing what he was doing. IIRC we (me and the one other guy who was still at the room after everyone had left) put him in one of the beds and we cleaned the incredibly reeking vomit out of the bathroom and threw out his garments which were caked in the stuff. Since these articles were so foul we ran over and put them in a dumpster next door. I think that my memory gets blurry after this point due to a combination of booze and psychological trauma, but I think that he started masturbating while we were out so in horror and disgust we put him back in the bathroom where he puked again, which we were obliged to clean once again.
ArkonC
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 9 2008, 07:40 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj4GJfPsk6o

Once at IIRC was a party I threw at a big motel room a friend of mine got so drunk that he staggered into the bathroom to vomit, disappeared there for a while, and came out totally naked without really knowing what he was doing. IIRC we (me and the one other guy who was still at the room after everyone had left) put him in one of the beds and we cleaned the incredibly reeking vomit out of the bathroom and threw out his garments which were caked in the stuff. Since these articles were so foul we ran over and put them in a dumpster next door. I think that my memory gets blurry after this point due to a combination of booze and psychological trauma, but I think that he started masturbating while we were out so in horror and disgust we put him back in the bathroom where he puked again, which we were obliged to clean once again.

"To me throwing up yer dinner 's just the sign of a good night out."
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (ArkonC @ Jul 9 2008, 01:43 PM) *
"To me throwing up yer dinner 's just the sign of a good night out."


It was really foul-smelling vomit, too, because we'd been eating greasy sausages and garlic-bean-dip nachos all evening. It was all sloshed together with stomach acid, beer, and hard liquor.
datagun
I'm not sure, but an old runner pal told me that in his country (Republic of Quebec), they have a brand called '( LA B.T., La biere du tabarnak)' which is brown ale with a mild poutine(some foreign fries-gravy-cheese meal) aftertaste. The name translation I think would be ' That Motherfraggin beer'. Man, I miss so much that BlastByte dude. All the drek we've been through. hehe.

Anyway, I made a quick search on the 'trix. And there's some gossip about that brand. It says that there was a former beer company called LABATT, which were popular in Quebec for making the 'Labatt bleu' beer. Quebecer loved that stuff. But when Quebec became a sovereign republic, some separatist AAA corpo-consortium decided to buy the company and rename the products for better public maketing/targeting, which they seemed to have been sucessful at it.
hobgoblin
on the topic of beer:
http://gizmodo.com/5023276/a-beer+shooting...y-be-a-bad-idea

i can see a troll carrying that around wink.gif
masterofm
Since my friend never vomited and was a heavy drinker by the age of 16, on his 18th birthday. Some of my friends made a bet to see how much he could drink before he would throw up (of course without telling him.) He drank a bottle and a half of vodka, half a bottle of whiskey, about 18 beers and after that he couldn't really remember what else. It was insane though because he just started going on a drinking rampage and was snatching things out of people's hands and drinking it. He fell down a flight of stairs I think like 4 times and attacked some of my friends (took 4 of us to subdue him.) What was more awesome is he was saying stuff like "weaklings you are nothing compared to me," which was true cuz' that fool had crazy drunk strength. In the end he never threw up during the party and eventually he was taken home, and only when we left did he puke.

Ah my friends on the East coast.... I really miss the fun times we had. At another party someone crashed his car (being drunk from another party) and so my friend took the thing that holds the front light and made a big bowl out of it. They would poor about 2-3 beers in it while quoting lines from Braveheart and then proceed to drink the whole thing in one go.

Never actually drank myself, but I sure had fun with them.
hobgoblin
heh, now im reminded of that drinking "game" that someone pasted on one of the older dumpshock forums. i do believe i saved or printed it nyahnyah.gif
Stahlseele
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jul 9 2008, 09:04 PM) *
on the topic of beer:
http://gizmodo.com/5023276/a-beer+shooting...y-be-a-bad-idea

i can see a troll carrying that around wink.gif

i can see a dwarf living in one of those *g*
as for having fun with drunken people?
yes, my ally exactly ^^
i don't really drink alcohol any more, aside from very seldom occurences and then only one drink . . never beer . .
but my buddies all do . . and each and every time i get at least one of them to puke *snickers*
i allways make sure to carry with me one bottle of peppermint liqueur . . stuff they would never even want to smell while sober . .
once they are drunk enough and looking for more, i just pull the bottle out, place it somewhere they will see it sooner or later and wait . .
yes, i know, i am kinda assholish in that regard . . but hey, i warn them every time not to get too drunk with me being around and pretty much still sober ^^
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