Full Version: Tough time with the mage
Oh man, I can feel the love in here today!
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Aug 7 2008, 10:28 PM) 
Your example is dealing with vehicles, which use condition tracks. Mine is dealing with barriers, which use the barrier rules.
You're right, except that its very hard to do that. Structural material, such as brick/plascrete, which I would assume most buildings outer walls are made of, has a structure rating of 11. Thats for breaking through it. Doing 10 damage to the wall doesn't blow a chunk out of it. And it doesn't matter if you consistently do 10 damage to it. Until you hit 11, you don't break a hole in it, and it doesn't have a condition track, so previous damage doesn't carry over.
You're right, except that its very hard to do that. Structural material, such as brick/plascrete, which I would assume most buildings outer walls are made of, has a structure rating of 11. Thats for breaking through it. Doing 10 damage to the wall doesn't blow a chunk out of it. And it doesn't matter if you consistently do 10 damage to it. Until you hit 11, you don't break a hole in it, and it doesn't have a condition track, so previous damage doesn't carry over.
So I could waylay against a concrete wall with a sledge hammer, and if I don't beat it's structure; it remains the "Rock of Gibraltar". Is there no erosion in the Shadowrun universe?
I cannot agree with the rules here. I will argue that each square meter has damage boxes equal to it's structure rating, and if it experiences damage overflow; it will overflow to an adjacent meter.
A "Powerball" may not demolish a structure in a single application, but I will suggest that the area within the powerball's radius does create an environment of "Terminal Erosion". Two or Three powerballs will have a cumulative effect.
I am not singling you out Tarantula, you just had the explanation neatly packaged. I can see where the RAW suggest no follow up on a second attempt to attack the barrier (although the example does), but I refuse to believe that any action has no effect. To align my opinion to the rules, I will say that the gamemaster must re-evaluate the material in question for every blow. Reinforced Material (8/9) de-stressed by a handful of SMG rounds may no longer constitute Reinforced Material. The bullet riddled security door may now only rank Heavy Material (6/7) or less. Of course, the Gamemaster must decide.
QUOTE (Floyd @ Sep 16 2008, 07:09 PM)
Is there no erosion in the Shadowrun universe?
Are there rules for erosion in the Shadowrun universe? If there isn't, then there is not. There might be phenomena appears to be analogous to erosion in Shadowrun, but without rules for erosion then there is no erosion.
Have a shedim steal his body while he's out one time. That oughtta do it 
QUOTE (toturi @ Sep 16 2008, 02:41 PM)
Are there rules for erosion in the Shadowrun universe? If there isn't, then there is not. There might be phenomena appears to be analogous to erosion in Shadowrun, but without rules for erosion then there is no erosion.
in SR3, as long as your power was below the structure rating, you did no damage at all . . if your power was ABOVE the structure rating, with every attack you reduced barrier rating by one . . if your power was DOUBLE the barrier rating, you got a 50cm³ hole or something like that . . if barrier rating reduced to 0, barrier breaks down completely and crumbles to vanish into nothingness . .
yes, this meant a troll with a dikote polearm got through everything below hardened materials
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 16 2008, 08:28 AM)
yes, this meant a troll with a dikote polearm got through everything below hardened materials
As well he should. Do *you* want to tell that troll he's not allowed to go inside?
usually, it's me being the troll . . i completely agree, a troll with maxed strength and a STR+4D Pole-Arm should get to slice cars in half, if he wants to . . problems arise with even trolls having problems with such damage, and the GM being allowed to do anything i do too . . well, if i ain't cheating anyway *snickers*
had to stop a laser-axe with the throat of my troll once . . only due to rolling like a true troll i managed to stop damage one box before deadly . . and then i hammered the other troll with 20D Damage and basically made 2 orks out of him . .
had to stop a laser-axe with the throat of my troll once . . only due to rolling like a true troll i managed to stop damage one box before deadly . . and then i hammered the other troll with 20D Damage and basically made 2 orks out of him . .
QUOTE (Floyd @ Sep 16 2008, 04:09 AM)
So I could waylay against a concrete wall with a sledge hammer, and if I don't beat it's structure; it remains the "Rock of Gibraltar". Is there no erosion in the Shadowrun universe?
I cannot agree with the rules here. I will argue that each square meter has damage boxes equal to it's structure rating, and if it experiences damage overflow; it will overflow to an adjacent meter.
A "Powerball" may not demolish a structure in a single application, but I will suggest that the area within the powerball's radius does create an environment of "Terminal Erosion". Two or Three powerballs will have a cumulative effect.
I am not singling you out Tarantula, you just had the explanation neatly packaged. I can see where the RAW suggest no follow up on a second attempt to attack the barrier (although the example does), but I refuse to believe that any action has no effect. To align my opinion to the rules, I will say that the gamemaster must re-evaluate the material in question for every blow. Reinforced Material (8/9) de-stressed by a handful of SMG rounds may no longer constitute Reinforced Material. The bullet riddled security door may now only rank Heavy Material (6/7) or less. Of course, the Gamemaster must decide.
I cannot agree with the rules here. I will argue that each square meter has damage boxes equal to it's structure rating, and if it experiences damage overflow; it will overflow to an adjacent meter.
A "Powerball" may not demolish a structure in a single application, but I will suggest that the area within the powerball's radius does create an environment of "Terminal Erosion". Two or Three powerballs will have a cumulative effect.
I am not singling you out Tarantula, you just had the explanation neatly packaged. I can see where the RAW suggest no follow up on a second attempt to attack the barrier (although the example does), but I refuse to believe that any action has no effect. To align my opinion to the rules, I will say that the gamemaster must re-evaluate the material in question for every blow. Reinforced Material (8/9) de-stressed by a handful of SMG rounds may no longer constitute Reinforced Material. The bullet riddled security door may now only rank Heavy Material (6/7) or less. Of course, the Gamemaster must decide.
Another point, most people won't let you just magic away at a specific section of wall. Same reason they won't let you just zap someones hand. Indirect combat spells are the exception.
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