Dumpshock Forums > More Character Pimpage Requests

ElFenrir

Aug 16 2008, 09:49 PM

I know I'm not a Shadowrun noob, but I do like to get other opinions on things, and characters are always fun to discuss. Being built with 750 karma, he's pretty intense.

I'm still figuring out what to do with the A. last 4 karma, B. last .5 points worth of Adept powers(what would fit an ex pit-fighter?) and that last Martial Arts maneuver(same.)Also, if anything could be tinkered with/changed/improved, I'm all ears. I was thinking about a Perception specialization, as I do see him as rather perceptive(I was thinking hearing or smell, in particular.) I also might take him the ''Blades Used in Odd Areas'' bonus to Sangre y Acero, but I dunno which would work better. I was thinking of Body Boost to let him pump up to take damage better. (Honestly, I had an original version of this build that used all cyber and bioware, but for some reason I felt making him an Adept could add to the story and the like.)

Im also not sure which I see him with more-the 6/+2 Unarmed/Martial Arts, and the 4/+2 Blades/Leg Mounted Blades, or 5/+2 in each. It's more of a style thing, really. I need a good uncommon stimuli for his flashbacks, as well.

I dunno why I like this idea, but I do. I feel like it could go anywhere, depending on the group he's in. Really, if you stratch underneath everything, he's not that terrible of a guy.

There was ONE other option I thought of for him; and that was to ditch the Synaptic Boosters(1.4 essence spent), and pick up as his powers Critical Strike 2, Elemental Strike: Blast, and Improved Reflex 1(3 points spent), and take Bone Density 3(.9, so he'd be down to a 3 magic). He'd lose some of the cool utility stuff I could buy, but this version would be a ''tankier'' version, if you will. But then I thought again and realized if that was the case, maxing out Magic and then taking half of it away(1-2 points is cool, but when you start going further down)....I might as well have just kepted him as cyber. So I MIGHT try to run with this version here. (Im not as concerned with power as I am with just...cool factor and what fits the dude at the end of the day.)

Also trying to figure out a quote or three. Nothing helps me get into a character's head more than figuring out quotes.

Ex-Prisoner/Pit-Fighter, trying to find a place

System: Runner's Companion Karmagen System(750 Karma to start)

House Rules Used: No Availability limit at chargen, full compliment of all +/- qualities between SR3 and SR4 books

[ Spoiler ]

Undecided on his lifestyle, I'm going to fiddle with the Lifestyle points a bit. Gear is not finished yet, and I still need to add in the rest and all the nuyen(I have a rough addup.)

Quick Background/Fluff:

[ Spoiler ]

One would think growing up in a rather wealthy and respectable elven family in a nice part of Denver would ensure one a secure position in a rather comfy lifestyle, especially when one is smart, physically capable, and both attractive and charismatic on top of it; but with Abel, it wasn't the case. While his young life was rather secure, as he got older, he got more adventerous. As he got more adventerous, he got more dangerous. More and more of the wrong crowd found their way into his life, and before he was even 20, the young man had found his way as a sort of muscle, and bodyguard, in the underworld of organized crime. With his natural charm, good looks, and formidable fighting skills and the ease in which he picked them up, he did well; but he also started doing more and more of the dirty work. It came to a head one day when he was in a large kill-or-be-killed moment; and well, he killed. He was also caught, and sent to prison; he got even more dangerous there, as he became rather the one to beat, after the other prisoners had found out he killed several men with only his bare hands. Eventually, he found his way in solitary confinement; both for his protection(so he didn't get stabbed in his sleep), and for the other prisoners(if they attacked him, he attacked back, and yeah, it got messy.)

After a couple of years in the big house, however-word had gotten around about the young elf with the wild, red-black hair and the orange-red eyes, who looked something like a demon. Strong and skilled enough to kill with his bare hands and not afraid to get messy; he was the prime canidate for the world of pit fighting. Not just any pit fighting-but the dirtiest ones in the underworld of Aztlan. When a man who was a sort of ''promoter'' managed to grease the right palms with a lot of nuyen, Abel found himself lucky that there were indeed corrupt people in the prison system. Soon later, he found himself heading to the heart of Aztlan, to battle in the pits.

Battle he did; the pale, sort of demonic looking fellow was a crowd favorite, between his strange looks and his brutal fighting style; he could go mad in a battle if he was wounded, and he had an amazing win record-as in, he never lost. Losing meant death in those pits. He was outfitted with ware that made him even more brutal; he would utilize hardened gloves on his hands with blades on his lower legs and weighted boots to extreme extents. They had finally started throwing more armed people at him, until they got up to firearms.

Now, Abel was a smart guy, and he realized that what started as pistols would soon become...much bigger guns if he kept winning-but if he lost, he would die. He was still a crowd favorite-if anything, very much one-but at the same time, some men behind the men might have saw it fitting that he finally lose, especially guys who lost people to his onslaught. So, he began planning a break for it....which took several weeks to get together, but it finally happened, after greasing palms, talking to the right people, and the whole nine. He finally ended up back in Seattle, and laid low for a rather long time.

After years between the underworld, prison, and the gore-covered fighting pits of Aztlan, now Abel really didn't know what to do with his life. Luckily, his criminal SIN was erased, in fact, Abel really didn't exist at all anymore. He had little skills except for killing people in gory and painful ways, and knew basically no one in the Seattle region, though his contact that was in Aztlan had put him in contact with someone in Seattle-a bartender. Someone who at least could maybe get him some work here and there. He saw some potential in the elf; he carried himself in a way unlike most prisoners-he was very handsome and charismatic, but intimidating as all hell; he figured he could get the guy some work. He ended up with his nickname, Alastor, from the bartender-given his appearance, and the fact the bartender didn't know his real name, it was the first name that popped into his head one night when he wanted to get Abel's attention. The name stuck, and it occasionally gets shortened to Al, by those daring enough, ie, those who actually know him. He doesn't mind the name, given it's origins.

Abel now sees himself as actually a type who could actually do anything he wanted; but is sort of stuck. His non-killing or intimidating oriented skills are still rather low, and it sometimes can be hard to find folks who don't hang out on the gothic-metal floor of the Inferno to trust him. He carries himself well, and also isn't afraid to use his old skills. He does suffer some flashbacks-they had attempted to do a bit of ''reprogramming'' on him in prison, and the brain treatments sort of twisted him a bit; he tends to get flashbacks of them whenever he is exposed to(uncommon stimuli.) He really wants to try to straighten things out, but he still has a hellish combat temper if he ends up in a fight; and he's still bitter about the ware being shoved into him before he realized he was magically active; he very much wants to more explore this aspect of himself. In a party, he's probably best used as muscle, though he's got enough social saavyness to him to be passable in other areas; his Good Looking and Knows It edge makes him rather good at dealing with women in particular. He's trying to turn over a new leaf in his life, having been a fully free man for about two years now, and mainly gets by doing more hired muscle-work, some under-world bodyguarding, bouncing, and the like. He tends to dislike firearms, but will use them if necessary and is beginning to see the merit in them, his low skill shows he's at least started on it.

Sometimes he likes to think of himself as actually rather suave and high class-and sometimes he can be, indeed-but then, his old life, and even somewhat of his current one, as a rather bloodthirsty warrior can come to the surface, and the strange-looking but attractive elf can get the look of a devil. He's really, really, trying to get that side of him in order, so he doesn't get caught again...

So yeah, questions, comments? Anyone? Bueler?

Glyph

Aug 16 2008, 11:19 PM

A. Improve pistols to 2. It's your only ranged skill, and 2 is still within the range of a relative neophyte to firearms.

B. My recommendation would be a level of Counterstrike, which lets you use your net successes from blocking as a bonus to your attack, and works especially well with the riposte maneuver (since you can use an action to go on full block, and still counterattack right away, giving you lots of net successes on your defense test, to make an overwhelming offensive test).

All kinds of other options, though. Either another point of mystic armor, another point of combat sense, or (since critical strike is already maxed out) 2 points of penetrating strike. A point of improved ability in unarmed combat would help both attacking and blocking. Even a point of kinesics would be an option, since this is a magnetic guy who plays to the crowd and attracts the ladies.

C. Herding is cool. Depending on the environment you are fighting in, you can really put your opponent in a bad position. Maneuvers cost 4 Karma during gameplay according to Arsenal, so you have 6 more Karma to spend. You could raise pilot ground vehicles up to 3, or improve your contact ratings.

ElFenrir

Aug 16 2008, 11:33 PM

Whoo, damn. More points.

Alrighty then:

A. Pistols to 2: That sounds good. I didn't want it to be too high given that he just didn't like 'em or use em so much, but I think you're right; a 2 pistols isn't super-high. 4 Karma can go to that, I think. I think I'll adjust the sheet for that.

The half-adept power point, I admit, does have endless possibilities. Well, I avoided Penetrating Strike, since I was mostly always told that Elemental Strike(Element that halves armor) was always the better option, and that both together would be a bit redundant(unless both together just utterly destroys Impact armor. That would be scary.) That, and it actually kinda made sense with the character. When he fought, he possibly developed a power that was good against opponents(Blast adds Knockdown and all kinds of stuff), but also is good vs. unarmored opponents(I'm not sure how much armor they wear in the pits), so it seemed to have a multi-purpose.

The Counterstrike sounds pretty awesome, especially with Riposte. That's a good possibility. Combat Sense and Mystic Armor are two of those powers that always seem to never go out of style. Improved Unarmed would freaking hurt(he'd be up to 17 dice unarmed, 18 with Kick Attack), and Kinesics isn't out of the question, either, since he does carry himself well and does indeed have that magnetism. Gah, decisions.

C. Ahh, only 4 Karma each, nice. I reread Herding, and it does sound nice for him(especially for what he used to do-knock 'em back, knock 'em down, and nice gory finisher.) Two others I looked at were Break Weapon(always impressive to watch, and he's got the Strength to do it. I could have gone lower on his Strength but I sort of pictured him as a type of ''unstoppable force'' type of fighter), Clinch(also useful), or possibly Disorient(to stretch the fights out to make em last longer during the time in the pits). I think Herding is in the lead here, but I'm still milling these over.

6 extra karma...I might improve contacts a bit, or pick up a third, low-rated one. Again, Ill think about that one.

It's always the same thing with a character; I can make them with no problem(well, a general concept), but it's always the little things, the icing on the cake that I can never seem to figure out.

Oenone

Aug 17 2008, 12:28 AM

It's not going to improve his combat abilities much, but personally I'd have thought Sustenance would be a good adept power choice. Because of his background in prison, it sounds like he'd have had plenty of people after him. So only needing 3 hours sleep could be pretty handy.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 12:59 AM

Wow, looking at Sustenance again, it is really awesome for this guy. It's only .25 points, too, so I'd have another .25 to play with. It would indeed fit him really well, and there are a crapload of other powers that could also fit him at .25, from the battle-utilized Body Boost to something else, if I pick it up.

EDIT: I updated his gear. He's got over 9k(har, har) left. Since we aren't using availability limits at chargen, I bumped his fake ID levels up to 1 6 and 1 4, and with them I was able to get him a nice lifestyle(after 5 years of bumping around the underworld, prison, and gore-soaked fighting pits in South America, I figured the guy wanted some High comforts and necessities at least.)

So now to spend more money as well, whee...

Bah, screw it. Buying Sustenance. .25 points left. 6 karma left. over 9k nuyen left. aaallllmost done, until I decide to possibly tweak more. This is what I like about character critiques and pimping, others can usually see stuff that you might have forgotten or didn't think of.

Kinesics would be a possible future choice, yeah; I can see that in him. if a runner team can maybe pump a bit more refinement into the guy and he can get rid of that pesky combat monster quality. Then again, going nuts in combat doesn't necessarily hurt how you negotiate with someone at the table. I can't call him totally insane, wild, and unrefined, actually on the contrary, but he's got a definite...scary, intimidating quality about him, like ''this guy has been through and done quite a bit of nastiness in his life so far.''

Oenone

Aug 17 2008, 01:10 AM

I was almost going to suggest combining it with Iron Gut. So he can stomach the prison food.

hyzmarca

Aug 17 2008, 01:33 AM

Since his focus is melee damage dealing, he needs to have some way of actually closing to melee against an enemy.

There are three ways you can do this. The first and most versatile is athletics skills, particularly running and gymnastics, combined with movement-enhancement powers to close distances quickly. The second, less versatile but less likely to get you killed, is stealth, particularly Infiltration and Shadowing; these skills allow you to both sneak into a place without being spotted and sneak up behind someone without being spotted, respectively. The third choice is talking your way close; this is available in situations where stealth isn't and itsn't available in some situations where stealth is. You have athletics at a decent rating but don't have any complimentary movement-enhancing powers and don't have the points for them at decent levels, so it'll be hard to run up to someone when he has a gun on you; I'm going to recommend taking a Con specialization in Fast Talk, so you can talk your way across a distance and get in close enough to kill some motherfraggers.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 10:31 AM

Movement enhancing powers. Which ones would you suggest? Great Leap? Improved Ability(Running/Gymnastics)?

His Athletics at 4 is quite good, and it DID cross my mind....but I figured his attributes were so high his DPs with Athletics are rather generous(12 with Agility-linked skills, and 13 with Strength). For a running test, he'd be throwing a lot of dice down to increase his movement rate...but that's still not enough?

My other option, naturally, is to split the skill group off, and lower a couple skills he might not use as much(swimming, climbing), and increase Running/Gymnastics(more his thing, but use specializations since I already have one skill at 6.). Playing with the points(and remembering I have 6 left), I could also nix 2500 nuyen(dont need as much as he has), and with the points from the group I could get Swimming: 1 Climbing(Freehand): 2(+2), Running(Sprinting): 4(+2), Gymnastics(good spec): 4(+2). It's only two more dice per pop, though...three for one of them if I pick up an Improved Ability.

His Stealth Group is rather low at this point(and rightfully so, he didn't need it really before, but again, it shows he's at least starting), and he tosses a respectable 9 dice to Infiltrate, and 5 to Shadow. The Shadowing could use some help, but his Infiltration is fairly impressive, due to his high Agility. I understand, though, with both of those skills...while 9-13 dice are really good, having to rely on them day in, day out, with the fickleness of dice, I suppose one might want a healthier DP for these. (I was thining 8-12 dice for a secondary skill was scary-high, but how I'm reading it....these skills shouldn't be secondary for him.

)

Hmm...the Con method is rather interesting. with 6 Karma left, he has enough buy buy it to 3; I could then nix a specialization from another skill or lower the remaining Nuyen that he has(I don't quite need the 9600, and having 4600 to spend still will be fun, so I'd probably do that), netting him a 3(+2) Fast Talk, and he'd be throwing 10 dice for that, which is no small feat. I guess he'd just start talking some kind of stuff to them, and before they know it....he's within charge range.

Then again, those 10 dice are still less than the 12-13 he throws for Gymnastics and Running as it is....but I could bring this to 11 with Improved Ability(Con) for that final .25 point.

It's all food for thought, though. The Con method sounds like it might be the best way to go(and in a way can kinda fit his personality, in a way of some rather mean-sounding trash talk to his opponents), since I do love his Adept Power setup(though the future could hold some movement powers and a couple social powers).

Still undecided on the final manuever too; Herding is awesome and I'm leaning heaviest toward that, and I like the possibility of Disorient having been used in the pits to ''extend the fight''. Oh! And I forgot one more....set up. That could be another that could have been used(keep setting someone up to toy with them, and then BANG.) All would fit him. Break Weapon is more of something impressive that fits his sheer power, so it's more or less a decision of style over substance here.

But thanks for bringing that to my attention. I might have been treating his athletics as more secondary, and it does kind of fall under primary to him.

hyzmarca

Aug 17 2008, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Aug 17 2008, 06:31 AM)

Movement enhancing powers. Which ones would you suggest? Great Leap? Improved Ability(Running/Gymnastics)?

His Athletics at 4 is quite good, and it DID cross my mind....but I figured his attributes were so high his DPs with Athletics are rather generous(12 with Agility-linked skills, and 13 with Strength). For a running test, he'd be throwing a lot of dice down to increase his movement rate...but that's still not enough?

It's a substantially more strategic game when you use powerful melee hits instead of just taking cover and shooting. The effectiveness of jumping also depends on how your table handles jumping. If you move before your target in an IP, your character is likely to get shot twice if he tries running towards a hostile character. You can hold an action and refrain from running run until after the hostile character using his actions, which is better precipitated with Fast Talk, but this only works if the target character has inferior initiative. This is complicated by the fact that he'll probably be holding actions, too.

Weather or not this running will be successful depends not only on the distance but also on the way your team handles running calculations, since you won't be starting until the end of the combat turn so you won't give your target a free shot. It gets complicated quick.

It works best if you start before he sees you and end before he can react, which is why a surprise jump works best. (Though a surprise run could work depending on the interpretations of the table)

I didn't really consider his agility or his strength when looking at his athletics skills, though. His athletics DPs are good and his stealth DPs are decent. I was just thinking more of the complex strategizing required to actually get close without getting shot, even with high DPs.

Sir_Psycho

Aug 17 2008, 03:23 PM

Great leap! Death from above!

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 03:32 PM

I can kinda see what you mean. Looking over the combat section here, I'm looking at what you can do in a turn. A melee attack is a complex action, so he really only gets a free one beforehand. Now, granted, if worst came to worst, he wouldn't be against popping a shot or two with his revolver; he's not dumb. Also, when he DOES get into melee range...a 12P damage code that halves armor(Elemental Strike: Blast), BEFORE he throws his 17 dice, means that whatever he hits is not going to live unless they are a Body-twinked troll in full military armor. This guy's hits hurt, and that's what I was going for.

Now, with a 10 Initative, he's likely to be going before most typical opponents-even improved guards are running initatives of what, 7-8(with a Jazz popper or wired 1.), but bad rolls can always happen on my side/good rolls on theirs; he does have a 3 edge which I could spend for an extra pass during the more hairy fights. Now, the thing is, you never want to be shot at, but naturally...well, people get shot at. With a 5 reaction and Combat Sense, he gets to throw 6 dice for dodging(not full defense), which isn't bad; his 15(!) Ballistic armor(after Mystic Armor is added in), almost guarentees stun damage unless it's a powerful gun and the guy is good(but stun damage isn't harmless, naturally. His Stun track is one less than his physical and Ive lost track how many times people went down to Stun, not to mention it gives him penalties. So harmless it isnt.) But with a 5 body and 15 armor, he's got things stacked for him(but again, I don't know how many times ive seen players with a ton of armor and good Body end up still taking a couple boxes of Stun. 6 Stun is a lot harder to stage down to nothing than it looks.)

This part here kinda threw me off a minute:

QUOTE

If you move before your target in an IP, your character is likely to get shot twice if he tries running towards a hostile character.

You mention I could get shot twice if I go first...I thought that if your initiative is lower than the other person, you can't go until they do...isn't that kind of the point of Initiative(unless the shooter can borrow an action?) I admit, as much as we have played, there have been a few things that we glossed over(and a lot of our games end up as data-searching or combat in small areas where a lot of this never comes up. I have no idea.

) If I roll a 12, and Pistol Guard A rolls a 9, and we are, say 25 meters apart...he can still shoot me when I run at him to attack(since the run is a Free action, and the attack is my Complex, thus using up my turn)? What is the point of his Initiative, then? Now, I can understand if HE rolled the 12 and I rolled and 11, he could hold his action until I chose to go, THEN try to pop a cap in me.

Alright, so Running is a Free Action, so he can indeed cover ground before his attack(and do it in the same turn.) Each hit on a Running test(Str, right now he's got 13 dice to roll-if I broke the group up, his Sprint specialization would count if I took it and add more, adds 2 meters to his distance he can cover; as a human, he can cover a base 25/M in a turn. Rolling Sprinting, and say nailing 4 hits(not hard with 13 dice, especially 14-15 if I specialized/took the adept power), extends that 8 meters to 33, which is Long range with a heavy pistol, Extreme with light and holdout, and Medium with an SMG(all the most likely to run-against firearms.) Now, he'll take a -2(unless it's treated as a charge), to take the hit at the guy.

I might be missing a factor or factors here; if anything this is a learning experience. Basically, unless the gun users are more than 25m away, I would not have to make a Running/Sprinting test to reach them in my free action; I can then use my complex to attack. Further than that, and yeah. Now, there's the shots. If they go first and blow their turn making a shot...they can't take one at me if I rush them, can they? Now, if they HOLD their action, yeah, that's when the stuff will come in and I'll have to worry about the dodge/soak before I get to them.

I agree, though, the tough part of a melee fighter isn't the fact they are bad at all(in fact, in melee range they can be amazing), but it's finding the top ways to close the distance to get at your advantage(and put them at a disadvantage, unless they have Firefight/Krav Maga.)

So I'm guessing the Fast Talk comes into play to basically try to taunt and confuse the bastard into not shooting before me as I slowly close the distance without him realizing it?

hyzmarca

Aug 17 2008, 04:11 PM

QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Aug 17 2008, 11:32 AM)

You mention I could get shot twice if I go first...I thought that if your initiative is lower than the other person, you can't go until they do...isn't that kind of the point of Initiative(unless the shooter can borrow an action?) I admit, as much as we have played, there have been a few things that we glossed over(and a lot of our games end up as data-searching or combat in small areas where a lot of this never comes up. I have no idea.

) If I roll a 12, and Pistol Guard A rolls a 9, and we are, say 25 meters apart...he can still shoot me when I run at him to attack(since the run is a Free action, and the attack is my Complex, thus using up my turn)? What is the point of his Initiative, then? Now, I can understand if HE rolled the 12 and I rolled and 11, he could hold his action until I chose to go, THEN try to pop a cap in me.

Starting to run is a free action. Actually running 25 meters takes an entire combat turn and there are no rules for determining the distance ran in a fraction of an IP. Youre basic running speed is 25 meters per combat turn. That doesn't mean that you declare that you're running and you instantly teleport 25 meters. That means that you start running when you declare it and at the end of the combat turn you will have ran 25 meters, if you declared it on your first IP. Crossing the distance takes time.

If you make an attack on the same IP as you declare that you're running then you'll just take a few steps and punch thin air.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 05:13 PM

Ok, I misread the rule, then. I reread some other stuff that went with the rule, and it's more clear, now.

(Ill be honest, that distance in that short time DID sound kind of off to me.)
It really sounds like stuff that I have to work out beforehand-like you mentioned, how the Jumping rules are handled(how far I'm allowed to run and still attack in one turn.) Actually, I'm trying to find that rule, on how far you are allowed to move and still attack in a combat turn...it's up to your rate in walking speed, if i recall? I know you can move SOMEWHAT toward and opponent and still attack(and he also has Intercepting on his side, so he could possibly try to set up disadvantageous situations to the enemy to force them to walk by him so he can smash them.) Naturally, he has teammates, and most likely, these teammates have guns as well, so the enemy will have more than just him to worry about.

What could happen is this; they see the team, consisting of SMG person, 2 Pistol people, and my guy, with a revolver in his hand, if they checked him out. They would probably go for SMG guy first(he could tear them a new one), but the minute my guy turns one of them into meaty paste in one phase, they are probably going to turn the guns on him. Then again, sometimes when I GM and play the enemy, I have to use ''guard knowledge'' rather than ''my knowledge''. I might KNOW my friend's berserk street-kid adept with the baseball bat can liquify his opponent's head in about five seconds-but they just see a scruffy little guy with a bat, and two professional looking guys with guns with him, and would probably aim for them first, as the kid closes the distance and ends the fight rather quickly(and yeah, Ive seen this happen.

)

Then you start getting into whole other discussions of strategies, and the like, though. You are correct in that melee combat adds a whole new level-you have to play guessing games(are they going to gun down me or Machine Gun Kelly first?), etc.

Hmmm...I did some tinkering with the skills. If I take all his skill Active Karma(215),bring his money down to 4800 remaining(+2 karma), and adjust some knowledge skills to finagle a bit more Karma, I COULD do this:

QUOTE

Unarmed Combat(Martial Arts): 6(+2)
Blades(Leg-Mounted): 4(+2)
Intimidation(Physical): 4(+2)
Running(Sprinting): 4(+2)
Gymnastics(Jumping or Tumbling, unsure which will fit best): 4(+2)
Etiquette(Street): 3(+2)
Con(Fast-Talk): 3(+2)
Perception: 3
Climbing(Freehand): 2(+2)
Pistols(Revolvers): 2(+2)
Infiltration(Urban): 2(+2)
Shadowing(Tailing): 1(+2)
Negotiations: 2
Pilot Ground Craft(Wheeled): 1(+2)

If I do that, I took the nuyen down, as said(4800 to spend), I nixed down 3 knowledge skills and Portuguese by 1(hated to do it, but couldn't figure out where to get the points), which net me another 11, and took the fixer's Loyalty down 1 point(+2), mixed in my remaining 6 Karma that I had left, and this is what I could get. Now, it's got weakness and strengths, indeed. His Running and Gymnastics skills have specializations for a boost, and his Infiltration and Tailing/Stalking skills are also better(12 dice Urban Infiltration, 7 dice Stalking/Tailing.) I could get the Con easily in his other build, so I'm not too concerned there.

On the downside, he has no more Palming(though defaulting at 7 dice is ok), no more Disguise(doesn't totally fit him anyway, with his attitude), and no more Swimming(I COULD pick that up easy enough), and his pilot ground craft is 1 lower. He also did lose a few points of Knowledge skills(he still has all the same skills, but three of the skill and one language are 1 point lower.)

I'm not sure if this adjusted skill list will help him with his ''must close the melee before he's shot'' issue, but it seems maybe it would help somewhat. I could take that last .25 of a point and increase any one of the skills that I decide is my main ''distance closer'' or whatnot.

DreadPirateKitten

Aug 17 2008, 05:51 PM

I think it looks wow powerful, 750 karma from karmagen seems...potent.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 06:09 PM

750 is pretty powerful, it's been discussed in a few threads. My table tends to play a more ''semipro'' type of game(ie, not Super Prime 1500 karma Tir Paladin Runners, but not beginners, either.) So this guy fits in just fine(we usually have around 16-18 DP for our higher skills, 10-14 for the mid, and 6-8 for the lower end of skills.)

The thing is with the 750, it's sort of odd in the sense that it's perfect for Technomancers(which suffered with 400 BP), and makes them good and viable, but not overpowered(well, some of those Sprites are broken, but they have nothing to do with the amount of BP a Technomancer has). Likewise, it allows for a much more balanced Magician who doesn't have to sacrifice a ton to spread their skils(I made one, and his highest DP was around 13 I think.) The system is also wonderful for Mundane/Non cybered folks; it makes them viable without having them have to play Mr. Lucky or having them always fall waay behind the sam.

But when you go more to Adepts or mundane/cybered folks, you can see a difference indeed, I admit that.

I could make a viable version of this fellow under the BP system, though the concept would have to be a bit different, I admit. But then again, it's been said a few times, mixing and matching BP/Karma systems are sort of not good; you kinda want to run with one or the other.

(If someone told me, for example, that they really liked the concept of the ex pit-fighting prisoner and wanted me to play it, BUT they were using 400 BP, I'd basically nix the Adept part and make him just more of a cyber-build.) Since trying out new systems is always fun when they come out, I figured I'd build him with the 750.

EDIT: One scary thing: the 400 BP version of this guy, in some ways, is *scarier* than this version. I know it's hard to believe...but I'll post the difference if you're curious. Scarier might be the wrong word, but he does have some different strengths. This 750karma version is actually a lot more well-rounded, and while he has a broader range, the 400 BP actually has HIGHER DPs in some areas, and not THAT much lower in the others. It sounds very odd, but one thing I love about the Karma system is how it actually rewards and supports a broader spread of character.

DreadPirateKitten

Aug 17 2008, 06:57 PM

It wasnt a "you twink" statement, just a statement of wow.

I had to squeeze every bp I had to come out with Bunny, and she's only got 13 dp for firearms n stuff.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (DreadPirateKitten @ Aug 17 2008, 01:57 PM)

It wasnt a "you twink" statement, just a statement of wow.

I had to squeeze every bp I had to come out with Bunny, and she's only got 13 dp for firearms n stuff.

No problems. I honestly didn't take it that way.

I was just pointing out one reason I love the Karmagen system; even with more points, the characters don't grow ''up'' as much as they grow ''out'', if that makes sense.

I won't lie, though....the 400 BP version of this guy did have some squeezing involved. (I more or less made it for the hell of it, and to test the power difference.)

I'm still debating those skillsets. The core skills are the same, but I'm trying to figure just which skillset a melee fighter would be more comfortable having. The second set is a lot more specialist-heavy with different advantages and disadvantages; neither is better from a game standpoint, I'm just trying to pick the one that works best for-and fits Alastor the best.

and damnit, i still have that 4800 nuyen to spend. Probably on fun stuff. I like all my characters to have some fun stuff.

Glyph

Aug 17 2008, 07:58 PM

One thing to keep in mind, is that while this guy may prefer melee, his ranged dice pool doesn't suck, in large part to his high Agility. With a smartlink, you will be rolling 14 dice when using a revolver, which isn't bad at all.

ElFenrir

Aug 17 2008, 08:21 PM

Very true. A revolver isn't a hose-weapon(I kinda liked the feel of it for him-simple, big boom, single shot, point and fire), but he can use it to take a shot and move his max allowance...take a shot, repeat. With a good movement rate(hell, a single shot is a simple action, he could take a shot, make a Run test to run the allowed distance in a simple action, and repeat), and close the distance rather efficiently.

This tactic, mixed in with relying on buddies for cover fire as he goes in to stomp on people, should see him well. I mean, like any good character, he'll change tactics. If his 9-12(depending on what route I go) Infiltration dice can set him up for the hit, naturally. If it's a good setup for his buddies to be taking out the enemies from afar as he closes in with his own gun to pop a couple shots, he will. Tactics are fun.

EDIT: Ok, spent the rest of his nuyen and Karma. Got him the Con: Fast talk 3+2. Picked up Herding as his final Maneuver(it is really good.) Things left to do:

Spend his final .25 of an Adept point, figure out which skillset to use(top or revised one underneath-leaning still toward the top for overall utility, but I could change my mind), and maybe even crack out the 20 questions in the RC. Somehow, I still kinda like doing those.