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masterofm
My GM (Weavermount) was just thinking about what would be the worst party you would have to GM for. We came up with a few... those party members being the high charisma shaman with tons of spirits (sporting mind control and mana static at the least,) the rigger general, a possession voodoo mage with channeling, and the adept demo expert. I was just wondering what people would consider their nightmare rolled up party that they would have to deal with. Common... go nuts!
Muspellsheimr
Your group has made a mistake with the demolitions expert. Far more effective & deadly when you combine demolitions & chemtech.

My next character, should something happen to my current, will very likely be said Adept.
Cardul
If I were GMing? My nightmare would be...a party where no-one has any useful non-combat skills..of course..no-one would do that in my group..we have a real killer GM...no, seriously..she has this little stamp, and every time a PC dies, she stamps her screen...the worst thing, though, is for you to get "plot protection" or her "special interest"...then, you will WISH you character was dead...
Stahlseele
worst group is one that is made up enitrely of "cool" characters like the kicked out yakuza, the ex aztechnology rigger, the pacifist thunderbird shaman eco terrorist, the elven chem/history student looking for . . whatever it was . . his elven sister with the natural 9 charisma and no social skill to speak of and her only combat skill being throwing knives with a strength of 2 . . none of those had a body of more than 3, same for agility and strength . . more or less maxed out non physical stats, but totally wonky skill-sets that were bound to lead to flying lead if they fucked up . . aside from being awesome cool/slick/broody/intelligent in theory, no real utility in any of them . .
guess who got to keep them alive?
AngelisStorm
Technomancer takeover artist, who's goal is to work up to owning a AAA one day. Oh, and he feels that the Matrix isn't ready yet for the evolution that Sprites represent, so he has (Decomping?), and that's his only Technomancer skill group skill.

What do you do with that? Besides run a "take over the world" campaign... but what other types of plots can I fit him into?
toturi
There are 2 way to give your GM nightmares. To be able to do nothing well. Or to be able to do everything well. Either way would give a GM nightmares.
Cardul
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 21 2008, 04:26 AM) *
guess who got to keep them alive?


Certainly not the GM....A team like that in any game me or my GM ran? They would not live very long.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Cardul @ Aug 21 2008, 11:41 AM) *
Certainly not the GM....A team like that in any game me or my GM ran? They would not live very long.

nope, me playing the can-troggy, that's who . .
more or less softmaxed(SR3) combat twink Troll, cyber/bio up to the horns . . but i more or less basically just stood around looking dangerously bored untill there came the inevitable "oh shit" from one of the others and alarms started to go off .. they all knew that the GM would make the combat situations so that they could and would indeed die, if they got caught in one of those without my character around . .
sunnyside
While some groups of character are better or worse to work with. Fundamentally it's more about the players being a problem than the PCs.

If they want to make a group with purely combat skills? Fine. You're worthless for Seattle runs, so you're hired out as Mercenaries in the desert wars. If they're good players we'll probably buy some miniatures and have a jolly time as they try to outwit Mitshumas new line of combat drones out in the sands.
treehugger
Worst group composition :
- A former Shadowrun and Earthdawn GM. But when he mastered SR only one member of the group was alowed a gun, and runs where about beating up a grocer that did not pay the local gang ... When you GM a "storyline" based run, he spoils everything to everyone and laugh at it ... When you do a classical run, he rants as soon as someone draws out an SMG saying everyone is really overpowered ...(he was playing a troll houngan ...)

- A former SR and ED GM. He never says a word on the background. Good. But he's a rule lawyer. BAD. Each and every roll is analysed, and if you miss a +1 or -1 he rants until you roll everything over again.

- A LARPer vet, but PnP game noob (yes it exists in France). 7 hours to create a character. Hates her background (it changed 8 times during character generation). Dont understand the rules. Each die roll must be explained at each time. That means her die rolls but also all other die rolls.

- Mr Munchkin. Actually lets call him cheater. He cant fail a single die roll. Once he had to make 3 die rolls, requiering 5 success each. He had 4 dices to roll. Of course he succeeded the 3 die rolls (I always consider the players totaly fair players, and never check their rolls only ask if it succeeds/fails.)

- My Girl friend. Dont understand the rules, the game world, and cries when her character is about to die. Good thing i can change the dice results as the GM.

How about that ? ^^ (never had the "chance" to have this particular combination, but at some point i had at least one of them at my table ...)
sunnyside
QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 21 2008, 06:11 AM) *
- My Girl friend. Dont understand the rules, the game world, and cries when her character is about to die. Good thing i can change the dice results as the GM.


Ok. The girlfriend can be just as much of a problem for the rest of the people at the table due to the "change the dice results" issue.

That said however, my general response to this and similar issues relating to female players in generally along the lines of:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040623h.jpg

On that note is that actually a problem you're having treehugger? If so may I suggest you not f*&% that s#!$ up. You've got the potential to have a very good thing going there.

Cyntax
QUOTE (Cardul @ Aug 21 2008, 04:16 AM) *
If I were GMing? My nightmare would be...a party where no-one has any useful non-combat skills..of course..no-one would do that in my group..we have a real killer GM...no, seriously..she has this little stamp, and every time a PC dies, she stamps her screen...the worst thing, though, is for you to get "plot protection" or her "special interest"...then, you will WISH you character was dead...

I hate GMs like that. Thankfully, we have MMOs now.
treehugger
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Aug 21 2008, 07:19 AM) *
On that note is that actually a problem you're having treehugger? If so may I suggest you not f*&% that s#!$ up. You've got the potential to have a very good thing going there.

More or less.
I have 3 regular girls at my game table, and my girlfriend plays like once a year ^^.
What i'm describing is a nightmare's group, not my regular group smile.gif
She's more into LARPs than table top rpg (like the other girls i'm playig with btw.).
Must be something related to the costume thing nyahnyah.gif
sunnyside
QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 21 2008, 08:31 AM) *
More or less.
I have 3 regular girls at my game table, and my girlfriend plays like once a year ^^.
What i'm describing is a nightmare's group, not my regular group smile.gif
She's more into LARPs than table top rpg (like the other girls i'm playig with btw.).
Must be something related to the costume thing nyahnyah.gif


Oh yes. People keep ragging on LARPs, and I have to keep explaining that...

That said I reiterate not to mess this up.

paws2sky
I'm going to turn this question around a bit and tell you about my headache GM...

At the end of mt SR2 days, there was only one guy left who had any desire to GM. Everyone, including myself, was burned out trying to keep the old gaming club together. Eventually thing fell completely apart for a few months. Then this GM comes along as offers to run a game. He was a GMing newbie (veteran player though) and we were all pretty jazzed about getting to play again.

His ground rules:
No reflex boosting anything above level 1, and even then, only with a good reason.
Avoid concealed carry larger than a heavy pistol or machine pistol.
No heavy armor.
No heavy weapons.
Brand new characters only.

These seemed pretty reasonable, as they addressed all the major issues that had been burning us out.

So, the first mission, we have out meet, it goes well. Then, we're heading out to the parking lot where we get jumped by gangers. We figured this wouldn't be a problem. Except, we were out numbered, they had SMGs, and, oh, some of them where fraggin' Street Samurai (with Wired 2), not Sprawl Gangers. It went about as well as could be expected. TPK.

So, he apologizes and we forgive him because he's new to this GMing thing.

Next week, we try again. Same ground rules, though he's a little less strict about the reflex boosters (still nothing higher than level 1 though). This time he's decided to run a game set in Tir Na Nog. Unfortunately, he didn't bother to tell us that ahead of time, so we were a typical bunch of Seattle-area runners. By happy accident, I'd made an Elf physical adept with Sperethial of, like, 1 or 2.

Because we want to play, we decided to take the job (as absurd as it was) and fly to TNN. We were supposed to meet someone there to get gear, but that fell through, catastrophically. We ended up on the run from the authorities. We had no outdoor skills. No gear to speak of. No familiarity with the country.

End result was that we did eventually get arrested. It was unclear on the final result, but we assumed that everyone except my character (the only elf in the group) was executed for treason or terrorism or something. My character sought leniency from the court. We suspect, she's stewing in a prison somewhere for the next 100-ish years.

That was the last straw for me. I didn't come back for the third week, but I understand they went for perhaps 3 sessions before everyone was dead that time.

-paws
PS and then there was the GM who wanted us to roll our Trailblazing skill to make our way throug the Amazon to our target...
Ryu
QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 21 2008, 11:35 AM) *
There are 2 way to give your GM nightmares. To be able to do nothing well. Or to be able to do everything well. Either way would give a GM nightmares.


That´s when you team up: "does everything well" does nothing all day, "low-wattage-lightbulb" takes over everything that is important, including demolitions.
Stahlseele
my nightmare GM was that one guy who knew less of the rules than i did(and i specialize in the combaty aspects), and was a total plot-whore . .
ok, in some cases it was a big advantage, that he did not know some of the rules . . for example chunky salsa, the only way i actually managed to live through 3 16M Grenades with 2L damage . . but when he started throwing ruger thunderbolts with ExEx and APDS at us and when we said we'd loot them he simply ignored everything and the trainwreck rolled on, and a STR16 Troll lost BOTH Heavy Pistols in his two at least 1m apart to ONE little drone in one flyby after i had hit something with one of those guns for the first time in that game it got too much for me . .
Skip
Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

cool.gif The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.
otakusensei
Doesn't matter what the others play, when someone rolls up a troll with obvious full body cyber conversion and a street lifestyle. To avoid the locals coming with torches and pitchforks (Read: LAW rockets and AKs) the players had to pretend that the big guy was a piece of industrial equipment someone had loaded a personality into and lost the password. The hacker even spoofed a license to "operate" him. A special truck was purchased to haul him around, and a nice sim deck added to keep him occupied so he wouldn't wander off and try to help. He had almost no skills and the social graces of a violent 2 ton gorilla.
I couldn't help but have the first mage they faced panic and manabolt him. Big guy sucked the hit, low willpower and he was down. The groups mage couldn't make the heal with such a low essence and they watched him die right there on the street. The fact that the player hadn't come up with a name yet got noticed, but they took it like he had to have had one, they had just never asked. Then the whole group looked at me like I had hit their puppy with a car.
Worst one shot game ever.
Stahlseele
hey, he was the groups mascot O.o
basically the whole group revolved around their "little" brother . .
otakusensei
I once had a GM for all of two games who would roll and single d6 anytime a question was asked. He would would then look at the roll and give an arbitrary answer. These questions ranged from "What gang are they from?" to "Are they short range from here?". One die, roll, call. One die, roll, call. Drove me to the point where I told him to leave it on the damn table and just run his game. He did for a bit, an hour later he left for the bathroom. After ten minutes someone went to see what was up and he wasn't there. We were playing at the local community college so we just packed up our stuff and left. When we did we realized that he didn't own any books and borrowed his dice from a player. I never saw him again, but I wasn't attending at that time either. The firend that had gotten me in said one of his friends told him about the game, but no one remembered knowing Jeremy (the GM) personally.

Worst GM? The Ghost GM.
DireRadiant
The players choose their characters, whatever the characters are and can do, or not do, the NPCs can do it an order of magnitude better, or worse. There are no problem characters for me as a GM. (Though there may be problem characters for other players....)

There are players I have nightmares about though.
tete
QUOTE (Skip @ Aug 21 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

cool.gif The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.



I think 3, 4, and 8 could all apply to me at some level. Though I enjoy RPing my character to the extreme (I get the whole "why are you doing something that dumb" because its what my character would do, yes he would die here because hes not that bright) and would be pissed if my cell phone interuped me (thus why like a movie theater I turn it off).
jago668
A gamer that tries to make up, odd, stuff. In one D&D (3.0) game, I was playing a mage with a 19 int (range of 6-7 for shadowrun). I come up with a plan, and he complains, asking how my character would be smart enough to think of that. My response was that I thought it up, and chances were my character was smarter than I was. His response was, "A high int stat doesn't mean as much for our characters. This is set in a midevil level fantasy game, and people were dumber back then." You could almost hear the squeeling brakes as everyone stopped and turned to look at him.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Skip @ Aug 21 2008, 04:49 PM) *
Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

cool.gif The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.

1,2,3,5,8 . . that could be me from time to time . . yeah, no, i don't really know what i want most of the time either ^^
Pendaric
Inheriting someone elses (bad) game and having to run with what am left with. It's a long day of work to fix...
masterofm
10. There is also the player that shows up and wants everything their way. When they don't get what they want they throw a fit. They also have no problem with bogging down any intense or awesome RP scene with complaining about a minor detail that does not matter and will after a few sessions generally leave the game without warning or at least very little.

I think you forgot this player. I don't know what the name for them would be as some of it does not constitute a rules lawyer or an engineer.
Cain
QUOTE (masterofm @ Aug 21 2008, 01:57 PM) *
10. There is also the player that shows up and wants everything their way. When they don't get what they want they throw a fit. They also have no problem with bogging down any intense or awesome RP scene with complaining about a minor detail that does not matter and will after a few sessions generally leave the game without warning or at least very little.

I think you forgot this player. I don't know what the name for them would be as some of it does not constitute a rules lawyer or an engineer.

It's a modified #4. I call them: "The Drama Queens". cool.gif
Skip
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 21 2008, 05:30 PM) *
I think 3, 4, and 8 could all apply to me at some level. Though I enjoy RPing my character to the extreme (I get the whole "why are you doing something that dumb" because its what my character would do, yes he would die here because hes not that bright) and would be pissed if my cell phone interuped me (thus why like a movie theater I turn it off).
I think we all exhibit one or more of these aspects during a game session. It is when the person puts their own selfish needs ahead of allowing the group to have fun on a repeated basis that it becomes a problem. I am an invenerate min/maxer when I do char gen, but I view it as simply wanting a character that works from the start. Other people have disagreed


QUOTE (Pendaric @ Aug 21 2008, 05:42 PM) *
Inheriting someone elses (bad) game and having to run with what am left with. It's a long day of work to fix...
Time to kill everyone and restart. ork.gif Just because it's a stereo type doesn't mean you should never be the evil GM.


QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 21 2008, 06:05 PM) *
It's a modified #4. I call them: "The Drama Queens". cool.gif
Too true, "Big Baby" also applies as another sub-variant. I deal with too many #3 and 4s at work. One of my co-workers had to shut down a droning #3 finally by shouting "Because it's the law!" at him. It happened ten years ago and people still use it as an example.
DTFarstar
Oddly enough, Jago668, he was technically right. Though of course there is nothing recorded from the Dark Ages when fantasy is typically set, the WAIS IQ test mean score goes up approximately 3 points(of 200) every 10 years(this is corrected to keep the mean at 100 for ease of use, but it happens nonetheless.)

Just an FYI.

Chris
Matsci
Player's who plan on taking over the world

QUOTE
For our group, the current plan involves setting up a number of "Shadowrunner Charities" to organize and ingratiate ourselves with the runner community (as well as sponsoring events like "Global Steal A Plane Day" to mask our own activities and keep the star overworked), while taking merc jobs to solidify our association with Ares and possibly a few other AAA's. Eventually, we'll take over Ares (and any other corps we can grab) through blackmail/hacking/social engineering/buying shares/whatever, but leave the current management in charge and use it as a shell--essentially becoming the shadowy "power behind the throne".

When the time is right, we use the thor shot satellites controlled by out puppet AAA's to take out the other thor shots as well as key orbital habitats (ZOH this means you!) in a swift, coordinated attack, and then bombard the earth into submission.

So you see, it's really just a question of how far you're willing to go--and what kind of anarchy is acceptable to you. King shit of the post-apocalyptic stone age sounds good to me. After all, it's not who can keep the spice flowing...
Skip
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Aug 21 2008, 06:44 PM) *
Oddly enough, Jago668, he was technically right. Though of course there is nothing recorded from the Dark Ages when fantasy is typically set, the WAIS IQ test mean score goes up approximately 3 points(of 200) every 10 years(this is corrected to keep the mean at 100 for ease of use, but it happens nonetheless.)
Though whether this is due to structural issues (the actual questions the test asks), societal changes (mandatory schooling); technological ones (TV, the web, cheap books); dietetic ones (more vitamins, less alcohol and generally better health); or genetics is open to conjecture. Sorry, the wife's specialty for her doctorate was in early childhood neurological development, some of it rubbed off.
Not of this World
Munchkins, Drama Queens, Rules lawyers, all the Archetypes... so far I've been able to deal with all of those easily.

People I have trouble with:

* Players who want 15 minutes to think and debate over every combat action they take.

* People who play the game but want it to be something else ("Oh, I thought this was a lawless universe like Star Wars" He spent all his resources being military grade weaponry then tried to walk through downtown Seattle with and through the front door of a Mitsuhama skyscraper)

* Psychopaths
Skip
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Aug 21 2008, 07:00 PM) *
Munchkins, Drama Queens, Rules lawyers, all the Archetypes... so far I've been able to deal with all of those easily.

People I have trouble with:

* Players who want 15 minutes to think and debate over every combat action they take.
Don't let them. Even if the character has a crazy reaction, the game requires a certain sense of pace. Warn the players before you start that you want faster play. Warn the offending player once in game. Next time he reaches for the rulebook, another pastry or whatever, declare his move held and go on to the next person.
QUOTE
* People who play the game but want it to be something else ("Oh, I thought this was a lawless universe like Star Wars" He spent all his resources being military grade weaponry then tried to walk through downtown Seattle with and through the front door of a Mitsuhama skyscraper)
Only one strike for this guy. Get him links to the free stories you like in the SR universe, suggest novels you like. Next time he pulls that stunt have the star break out an ED-209 on his hide.
QUOTE
* Psychopaths
If really off the deep end just don't play with the person. If just nuts, fight fire with fire. Awakened head lice. ork.gif
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Matsci @ Aug 22 2008, 01:44 AM) *
Player's who plan on taking over the world

i actually had such plans for my very own transition from sR3 to SR4 without the second crash involving otakus and AI's and another crash virus and without the magical nukes going kaboom . .
prime runners William Gates of MicroDeck(as far as you can be without actually being an otaku) was to be used to start a matrix war between most,if not all, bigger corps and then microdeck was supposed to take the blame(yes, this was shortly after Shadowrun Online got killed by M$ for their camperstrike clone, why do you ask?) while we were to use the data we gathered from the other corps to take them over one by one eventually . .

other plan was mostly for the shadowrun online mmorpg, building up TrogCorp.
plan was: get gang of trolls, educate said trolls, use said trolls as gang to do some gang stuff for starting capital, taking over some streets as a bse of operations, once capital is there use some of capital to sponsor local combat-biker team as a front for dealings in weapons and illegal vehicle tuning and maybe as a training for future gang-members, then sponsor local urban brawl team for more of the same, now beginning to dabble in bodyguard-business, using the traveling sports teams to smuggle certain contraband, using the medical facilities for the teams for a shadow clinic, using that to get into bio/cyber-tech business, then drug making and selling, going on to weapons in the same way, from there on becoming more or less legal corporation made up mostly of trolls and orks to become competition to doc-wagon, work way up from there over entertainment business using footage of the things the corporation does in secret, then starting to take over other smaller corporations to grow some more, then starting taking on bigger challenges untill they all have to drop before TROG-CORP! "Join us as long as it is still volountary!"
DTFarstar
Never have to apologize to me for stuff like that, Skip. I could almost give a freaking dissertation on stuff like that so I struggle to keep my posts from putting people to sleep. Always nice to have someone who knows what I'm talking about around.

Chris
toturi
The meta-munchkin - People you can't stand GMing for but have to GM for anyway. Like a significant other or a parent or a sibling.

The meta-pornomancer - You do not mind GMing but the person giving you a hard time not only has the social skills to persuade the other people at the table that you are wrong but he is able to persuade those others he is being as reasonable as could be under the circumstances and you are the one being unreasonable if you do not give in.
Not of this World
QUOTE (Skip @ Aug 21 2008, 05:13 PM) *
Don't let them. Even if the character has a crazy reaction, the game requires a certain sense of pace. Warn the players before you start that you want faster play. Warn the offending player once in game.


Oh I do. I give them about a minute to decide what they want to do and then it is time up. Action not held, but missed entirely in combat shock. People hate me for it still, but I'd rather the whole group not hate me because it took two hours to get through one combat round.

Oh and I don't mind people who play psychopaths. But when I used to demo SR in San Diego I occasionally got some real psychopaths in the group and usually we tried to just subtly urge them to find another game to play.

For any breed of Munchkin SR is traditionally a good setting. There is always something bigger and stronger out there than you. A ritual mage strike team, a dragon, Tir Ghosts, possession spirits, whatever. If you're one of those Munchkins who is trying to game the game, you'll be toast pretty quick. Though most of my old players can all say that the Nomad Spirits are my favorite way of doing the Munchkins in. vegm.gif
DTFarstar
QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 21 2008, 09:11 PM) *
The meta-munchkin - People you can't stand GMing for but have to GM for anyway. Like a significant other or a parent or a sibling. Or the significant other of another player

The meta-pornomancer - You do not mind GMing but the person giving you a hard time not only has the social skills to persuade the other people at the table that you are wrong but he is able to persuade those others he is being as reasonable as could be under the circumstances and you are the one being unreasonable if you do not give in.


I've been stuck with that one several times.

As for the meta-pornomancer... I didn't know you had played with me before, toturi. In all seriousness, I only do it if the GM is being inconsistent or completely arbitrary like when he was giving all of my adversaries dodge to their pool vs. my thrown weapons or when for about 3 sessions the average successes of people without a mage to provide counterspelling who were resisting my spells was 6. You could hear that he was giving them 15-20 dice to resist as well, even behind a screen you can tell the approximate amount of dice being rolled. I had 9 spells in a row completely resisted by everyone, because my average successes on spellcasting was 5 and the few times I rolled above that he managed 8 or 9 successes supposedly. So, I applied the peer pressure by convincing everyone he was being a douche- which he was in my opinion.

Chris
jago668
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Aug 21 2008, 05:44 PM) *
Oddly enough, Jago668, he was technically right. Though of course there is nothing recorded from the Dark Ages when fantasy is typically set, the WAIS IQ test mean score goes up approximately 3 points(of 200) every 10 years(this is corrected to keep the mean at 100 for ease of use, but it happens nonetheless.)

Just an FYI.

Chris



That doesn't stop a genius from being a genius though. I will definately agree there was less education, therefore more ignorance. It isn't like everyone was an absolute moron. People like Copernicus, DiVinci, etc were geniuses, and would still be considered so by todays standards. So to say that an average person today could so vastly out think a genius back then, that you need to explain how your character came up with the idea?
Falconer
QUOTE (Cardul @ Aug 21 2008, 04:16 AM) *
If I were GMing? My nightmare would be...a party where no-one has any useful non-combat skills..of course..no-one would do that in my group..we have a real killer GM...no, seriously..she has this little stamp, and every time a PC dies, she stamps her screen...the worst thing, though, is for you to get "plot protection" or her "special interest"...then, you will WISH you character was dead...


Lucky, I'd love to get a GM/DM like that for many different RPG's. It seems all I regularly find are ones w/ grand plot ambitions conducting the carebear express where nobody dies. But it's rough finding shadowrun in the Annapolis area it seems.

Last time I got a chance to play SR... one person who should have known better made a pornomancer elf w/ 1BOD and 1REA. Among the talk among the rest of us of using a lot of gas grenades just to spite her low BOD score and inability to resist, and wondering how many STD's said char had with her 1BOD to resist disease finally a fight popped up. There was also talk of knocking said char out, cybering the adept up into a full fledged catgirl, and then pimping her out actually making use of her ungodly charisma and pheromones (lord knows she didn't, worst face I've ever seen). Said char, with her whopping 2 points of armor, proceeds to charge an AR armed ganger w/ a light pistol. Even the sammies were taking cover and pulling out their hidden SMG's. She gets hit... she critically glitches on 1 die, not once but twice (one for the reaction roll to reduce hits, the other for the 1BOD AP-2 soak that came next). The GM proceeds to show great mercy, and somehow she survives the narrow burst w/o major injury or even burning an edge. That should serve to illustrate the frustrating carebearity.
Jhaiisiin
Wow. Definitely should have needed an edge point blown or have the character scrapped. Sheesh.
ShadeRavnos
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Aug 21 2008, 08:00 PM) *
* Players who want 15 minutes to think and debate over every combat action they take.


And this is why I instituted a 10 sec timer... A pass IIRC is 3 sec, so that's plenty long enough
Cain
QUOTE (jago668 @ Aug 21 2008, 08:46 PM) *
That doesn't stop a genius from being a genius though. I will definately agree there was less education, therefore more ignorance. It isn't like everyone was an absolute moron. People like Copernicus, DiVinci, etc were geniuses, and would still be considered so by todays standards. So to say that an average person today could so vastly out think a genius back then, that you need to explain how your character came up with the idea?

An IQ test doesn't tell if you're a genius, although it's frequently mistaken that way. All it really does is predict how well you'll do on standardized tests. Since there's a lot of that in basic education, it's also a decent predictor of how well you'll do in school and college. Other than that, it really doesn't mean much of anything. The creative spark that creates true genius is not quantifiable by modern science.
jago668
QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 22 2008, 12:47 AM) *
An IQ test doesn't tell if you're a genius, although it's frequently mistaken that way. All it really does is predict how well you'll do on standardized tests. Since there's a lot of that in basic education, it's also a decent predictor of how well you'll do in school and college. Other than that, it really doesn't mean much of anything. The creative spark that creates true genius is not quantifiable by modern science.



Once again, this has nothing to do with needing to explain a plan that an average person can come up with when the character's score for intelligence is above that of normal human maximums.
toturi
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Aug 22 2008, 11:41 AM) *
For any breed of Munchkin SR is traditionally a good setting. There is always something bigger and stronger out there than you. A ritual mage strike team, a dragon, Tir Ghosts, possession spirits, whatever. If you're one of those Munchkins who is trying to game the game, you'll be toast pretty quick. Though most of my old players can all say that the Nomad Spirits are my favorite way of doing the Munchkins in. vegm.gif

But then that would not be a munchkin. A munchkin would be something that is the biggest and strongest out there. When GMs talk about bigger and stronger, they refer to a munchkin. If a munchkin games the game, then the GM can just let him do what he wants to do.

If Nomad Spirits can do Munchkins in, then they are the Munchkins or what the Munchkins should be playing.
Kyoto Kid
...once GM'd a team of 6 characters 4 of which were mages (3 Hermetic 1 Shaman & 2 of the hermetics were elves). When combat broke out it became more like a Napoleanic battle than a firefight with upwards of 2 dozen elementals + a nature spirit to deal with just on the Players' side. twirl.gif

...and that was long before I had a notebook computer.
apollo124
How about Mr. "Can I bring my character in from someone else's game"? Especially if the other GM had not the first frickin' clue what the rules were.

I had a D+D game on the ship when this guy came on board and wanted to play his old character. Check this out, this was 2nd edition AD+D. He wanted to play his 30th level necromancer vampire greater god, with his +20 Godslayer broadsword. And that was only the beginning of how uber this guy was. Or another guy who wanted to play a 1st level wizard with a Displacer Beast familiar, casting Fireballs and Haste spells.

Mr. "I think I saw something about D+D once" and knows nothing about the rules himself. But he was easy to get rid of. 5 minutes into the game, I killed him with a Command spell "Die", and he left.

A couple of guys who I thought were going to be terrible actually turned into pretty decent players. "Sir Cooter" and "Lord Jethro" With those names I feared the worst, but they actually got into it and became integral parts of the game. Who could have known?

The GM who lets you have anything under the sun for starting equipment, because he knows that about 20 minutes in he's going to take it all away from you.
Riley37
Character with super detection or divination is a standard game-breaker in some other systems, if the player and GM don't take appropriate measures. Sustained Extended Detect Enemies can make it hard to ever have an ambush. If one character has both Mindprobe and mad Matrix skills, it could be difficult for any other character to contribute to solving a mystery. Any particular broken or nerfed detection rules in SR?

Again, though, it comes down to player behavior. "What, you mean the Amazing Argus didn't notice any hint that Johnson wasn't actually working for Mitsuhama, four sessions ago when we ran the meet? Surely Argus would have noticed *something* inconsistent! I demand a do-over!"

On another hand, persistently ignoring story clues is a difficult player behavior. Extreme versions include the character never checking email or voicemail or astral mail... and claiming that as a Quality, so they can claim the moral high ground of "but I'm roleplaying my character as written!"

Guilty as charged on the spirit posse. My elven shaman PC brought seven bound and one unbound spirits to the last rumble. It helps to decide their actions *before* the GM calls for decisions.
Johnny Jacks
QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 21 2008, 08:11 PM) *
The meta-pornomancer - You do not mind GMing but the person giving you a hard time not only has the social skills to persuade the other people at the table that you are wrong but he is able to persuade those others he is being as reasonable as could be under the circumstances and you are the one being unreasonable if you do not give in.


So you've gamed with me before? spin.gif
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