Given the amount of character creation goodness in Runner's Companion, I was kinda surprised to not see a free sprite pc race option in Unwired. Anyone put together any rules yet for PC free sprites?

And... I'm new here so please be nice. =) I checked search and didn't see anything.

Xykal

Pretty sure Artificial Intelligence covers them. It'll just be a flavor change.

They're considerably different. Sprite powers, free sprite powers, resonance, submersion, echoes...

I doubt a free sprite pc would cost 110 bps and I would think their stats / starting complex forms would be handled differently.

Xykal

edit: And for the record, PC AI's seem fairly lame to me. Max stats are low w/ no way to raise them beyond 6. Max 3 IP's... which seems really low for an Artificially Intelligent program that lives in the matrix. I would think there would at least be a way to increase the IPs.

So you don't want to use them because they're "lame" rather than not being able to fill the concept. Gotcha. Well, you're pretty screwed then.

I can see where my edit would give you that impression. But the 2 things are seperate. I believe free sprites are so significantly different from AIs that the rules to create them should be different. I also believe that PC AIs seem to be on the weak side.

Please do me a favor, though. If you're going to take the time to respond to my response, at least give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm generally interested in constructive responses. Kvetchy time wasters are for the young and I was old when SR1 came out... =/

AIs can't use Resonance while Spites are basically composed of Resonance. They really should be different.

So far I'm thinking this:

250 bps (taken straight from free spirit... might be a bit much given that sprites cannot materialize)

Origin: Must choose a sprite of origin (ie machine, fault, etc.)

Start with a "Rating" of 2 which acts as the starting min/max for attributes to include edge and resonance. Has a max starting Rating of 6. Can be raised normally like an attribute.
No physical attributes.
All mental attributes, edge, and resonance start at 2. Can be raised normally with a max = Rating.
Resonance can be raised above Rating by submerging.

Has a "persona" that is much like the Techomancer's "living persona".

System = Logic (max = resonance)
Signal = Resonance/2 (or should this be the node's signal rating??)
Response = Intuition +1
Firewall = Willpower

BioFeedback Filter = Charisma
Initiative = (Intuition x 2) + 1
Initiative Passes = 3

Start with a number of complex forms = to Rating. Complex Forms must be chosen from the list of CFs and optional CFs available to the origin sprite.
Start with a number of powers = Edge. Powers can include Sprite Powers, echoes, and Free Sprite Powers (disallow doorstop and resonance rift?). Also start with Denial and Resonance Bond for free.

Skills - start with the same skills as a sprite of your origin. Buy new skills with bps from there.

Threading is ok.

Qualities... haven't gone through these yet, but obviously there are quite a few that would not work.

Alternatively, like the Free Spirit's magic rating = force, we could simply have Resonance = Rating and eliminate the need for a separate score.

Thoughts and feedback???

AFAIK Free Sprites were proposed to get a writeup in the RC, but were declined because htey were to "new" to the common playership.

<picks up a magic marker and stikes through the word "Rating" and replaces it with "Resonance," then does the same with "Programs" and "Complex Forms" and so on and so forth>

"That won't work, Captain. The ship cant handle such things!"

Not RAW, it is not even a suggested optional rule from the writers. However, you could House Rule it so.

What about the part where free sprites don't get Karma?

If anyone is interested, here's the "House Rules" version of Free Spite PCs I put together. There are some minor changes from the original above,


Free Sprites

200 BPs

Origin: Must choose a sprite of origin (ie machine, fault, etc.)

Start with a "Rating" of 2 which acts as the starting min/max for attributes to include edge and resonance. Has a max starting Rating of 6. Can be raised normally like an attribute. Rating also = Resonance
No physical attributes.
All mental attributes and edge start at 2. Can be raised normally with a max = Rating.
Rating can be raised above 6 by submerging.

Has a "persona" that is much like the Techomancer's "living persona".

System = Logic
Signal = Rating/2
Response = Intuition +1
Firewall = Willpower

BioFeedback Filter = Charisma
Initiative = (Intuition x 2) + 1
Initiative Passes = 3

Start with a number of complex forms = to Rating. Complex Forms must be chosen from the list of CFs and optional CFs available to the origin sprite.
Start with a number of powers = Edge. Powers can include Sprite Powers, echoes, and Free Sprite Powers (Doorstop and Resonance Rift are disallowed w/o GM approval). All Free Sprites start with Denial and Resonance Bond for free.

Skills - start with the same skills as a sprite of your origin. Buy new skills with bps from there.

Threading is ok.

Qualities have to make sense.

Oh right, right. BUT creating brand new rules from it because the ones that are completely appropriate and fitting are "lame" *are* entirely "RAW." My bad. I'm such a dumbass. How could I have made such a collosal mistake. Thank you so much, Toturi, for piping in and explaining this to me. I am forever in your debt.

i would say the main problem with sprites as characters is that sprites don't advance through karma, build points, etc, but rather by absorbing registered sprites that are fed to them by technomancers. and it costs nothing in terms of karma, build points, money, resources, etc other than a brief amount of time for a technomancer to give you a sprite.

it could get out of hand really fast.

So can asking for karma as a free spirit... you've seen the pornospirit? An idea made to me my a player.

karma has quantifiable boundaries. you can't just ask a PC for 100 karma and expect it, because they likely don't have 100 karma, and furthermore, they have a use for 100 karma. all it takes for a sprite to increase every last one of it's areas of strength is time spent by someone else, and that amount of time can very easily be trivial. so an edge 2 sprite with the credit and resonance bond(allocation) powers can just go around to half a dozen technomancers and offer to reassemble in their presence when they want to submerge, and/or offering resonance bonds, in exchange for registered sprites.

i mean, honestly, if your PC had a sprite offer them +2 to fading resistance (soon to be +3 to fading resistance) in exchange for you compiling and registering a single rating 2-3 sprite for one day? if the sprite gradually raised the cost (but also the benefit) and you were able to submerge with a submersion task readily as an additional benefit, would you put up much of a fight? and now consider that said sprite could also make the same deal with multiple technomancers... how long do you think it takes for a free sprite to reach a reasonably high rating with an extremely large selection of skills and complex forms?

the ability to advance without the expenditure of karma is, imo, the largest barrier to free sprite PCs.

True then they would need either different rules (braking the consistency that SR4 tries to keep) or some other limate on doing such. Though the latter could easily be house ruled.

Also with the pornospirit its not asking one person for 100s or karma its asking lots of people for 1 or 2. Think 20+ dice to persuade some one to do such a thing for no cost. Then mix in mental menipualtion spells they can quickly gain power though maybe not as quickly as a free spirte... maybe even faster.

PC Free Spirits don't follow the 'normal' rules for Free Spirits, so I think that the consistency argument is blown.

They follow the same basic princeables though.

For simplicity's sake I think I'll just use the normal karma rules much like the Free Spirit.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

Xykal

Really?

What about -

All Attributes (excepting Edge) = Force?
All Skills = Force?
Physical Attribute modifers for materialized forms determined by Spirit type?
Movement Rate determined by Spirit type?
Base Powers and Weaknesses determined by Spirit Type?

IMO, they don't really follow the basics of Free Spirits too well at all.

I am in favour of taking this approach. K.I.S.S.

Free Sprites are quite different from Artificial Intelligences - that is why they have two separate sections in Unwired. This is also the reason simply replacing Rating with Resonance & Program with Complex Form will not work.

The reason there are not rules for Free Sprites, as previously pointed out, is probably due to how they increase their abilities - they do not function well in a Karma advancement system because they do not use Karma.

particularly since they can just sit in a node somewhere and trade registered services and/or resonance bonds and/or credit power wealth for bound sprites at no risk, and advance far more quickly than anyone who needs karma.

Neither do Artificial Intelligences... unless they're player characters.

What? You think that if they did include rules for Free Sprites they'd be the only characters in the entire game that didn't rely on Karma to advance? Absorbing sprites or whatever else would simply be the flavor description of how they're obtaining and improving themselves with Karma. Hell, their sleep cycle would probably be assumed to be doing that very thing.

But, yeah, fuck that. They have their own chapter in Unwired, so that's completely relevant to how they should be treated as a PC! I mean, it's not like Free Spirits are completely different as a PC over an NPC either, particularly how they obtain and advance through the use of Karma. Best to just plug one's ears and hum loudly until some convoluted set of house rules show up that make little sense, are overcomplicated, and utterly unbalanced (either overpowered or grossly underpowered) as most house rules created in these situations are wont to be.

I fully believe you needed more hugs as a child. You may be right, but your bedside manner sucks.

I am of two minds about Dr. F. I find myself agreeing with the content of every one of his posts, but not the manner in which they are delivered. It's like he's my evil twin or something. >.>