I've been running this game for three days (as in, straight) with an imperfect understanding of the rules. I'm going to finish out the /weekend/... It's a holiday weekend and my paper-game group split up, so we've picked up Shadowrun. I played back in 1e, and that was... a long time ago. Can you help me understand how things work now? I grasp magic, I have a fair understanding of combat, but hacking is still... hard.
1. RECOIL: My player's Sam runs with a Ares Stone Medium Machine Gun. He has 3 recoil compensation modified into the gun. He has an agility of 8, a skill of 6, and the appropriate medium machine gun specialty, as well as a smart-link. He fires two short bursts on the first initiative pass, a long burst and then a short burst on the second pass, and suppression fire on the third. What are his dicepools?
2. Our decker (or, for that matter, my Technomancer in our online game as I struggle to learn a new archetype...) often wants to hack people's smart-links or commlinks. How does she go about doing that? I maintain it's necessary to hack the commlink first, as it's all slaved through that any way you slice it, and that requires an Electronic Warfare + Sniffer (4) test, and then she has to use Hacking + Edit to change programming, or Hacking + Command to give the smartlink a single order. Is that correct? What if she wanted to be able to hack someone's cyber-arm to reach out and touch someone.. or punch someone... or shoot someone... Is that even possible? Step by step, what does these attempts entail? Reading the matrix section makes my nose bleed, I swear...
-JFixer
Old Newbie Judge
Full Version: Two Rules Clarifications
Various Edits: Bunch of corrections.
Dice pools:
His base DP is 8 + 6 +2 +2 = 18 and the gun is firing with RC 3 (right?)
First pass his DPs are 18 - ((2-3)*2) = 18 and 18 - ((5-3)*2) = 14
Second pass his DPs are 18 - ((5-3)*2) = 14 and 18 - ((9 - 3)*2) = 6
Third pass his DP is 18
The question about Hacking is complex.
Firstly, you don't use a EW + Sniffer test to hack a commlink or the smartgun, but you can use it to grab their wireless traffic (Threshold 3) and then use Hacking + Sniffer vs System + Firewall to insert fake commands (don't need to Spoof, since the commands look like they came from the master device). Since you're doing this to their wireless signals, you are undetectable. You will need to roll Hacking + Decrypt against any Encryption on the connection, though.
Alternatively, one could make a Hacking + Exploit (Firewall, 1 IP) test, with the system getting to make a System + Analyse (Stealth) test each roll. You can then automatically log into the Smartgun System and do whatever you want. You will probably be impaired by Encryption and, less likely, Data Bombs.
For Cyberware, this is even more complex. Limbs are only hackable if the person has a Datajack and has left it accessable via Wireless.
Dice pools:
His base DP is 8 + 6 +2 +2 = 18 and the gun is firing with RC 3 (right?)
First pass his DPs are 18 - ((2-3)*2) = 18 and 18 - ((5-3)*2) = 14
Second pass his DPs are 18 - ((5-3)*2) = 14 and 18 - ((9 - 3)*2) = 6
Third pass his DP is 18
The question about Hacking is complex.
Firstly, you don't use a EW + Sniffer test to hack a commlink or the smartgun, but you can use it to grab their wireless traffic (Threshold 3) and then use Hacking + Sniffer vs System + Firewall to insert fake commands (don't need to Spoof, since the commands look like they came from the master device). Since you're doing this to their wireless signals, you are undetectable. You will need to roll Hacking + Decrypt against any Encryption on the connection, though.
Alternatively, one could make a Hacking + Exploit (Firewall, 1 IP) test, with the system getting to make a System + Analyse (Stealth) test each roll. You can then automatically log into the Smartgun System and do whatever you want. You will probably be impaired by Encryption and, less likely, Data Bombs.
For Cyberware, this is even more complex. Limbs are only hackable if the person has a Datajack and has left it accessable via Wireless.
1.
2. You would search for the targets commlink node (WiFi-Scan, likely a hidden node), and exploit it for the required level of access rights. If the cyberware is slaved to the commlink, it can be controlled via the master node.
Messing with the settings is a "change device settings" free action. The cyberarm-punches are a bit harder; a command device complex action, and you are limited to moving the arm - the rest of the body might actually oppose the attack.
I recommend that you check out Aaron´s hacker cards, as well as his cheat sheets. Those are great.
Unwired is a solid book, and the player of your TM would likely love it to death. Just saying.
As for starting with the matrix rules, I do hope that this approach helps.
QUOTE (SR4 FAQ)
Are Recoil modifiers cumulative across an entire Combat Turn, or just an Action Phase? Does Recoil Compensation apply to each attack/burst, or does it only apply once in an Action Phase? Can you give a better example of how recoil works?
Recoil modifiers are cumulative, but they only apply for that Action Phase. They do not carry over to additional Action Phases in a Combat Turn.
Recoil compensation only applies once during an entire Action Phase. In other words, each point of Recoil Compensation counteracts 1 point of Recoil modifiers for that entire Action Phase.
There are several things to keep in mind about recoil:
a) The first bullet never counts.
b) Every bullet fired in an Action Phase after the first incurs a cumulative -1 recoil dice pool modifier.
c) Each point of recoil compensation counteracts 1 point of recoil modifier.
Example #1:
Let's say you're firing a submachine gun in burst fire mode (3 bullets), with 1 point of recoil compensation. With your first Simple Action, you suffer a recoil modifier of -2 (first bullet is free, next two count). You have 1 point of recoil compensation, however, so that recoil modifier is reduced to -1.
On your second Simple Action, you suffer an additional -3 recoil modifier (three more bullets in the same Action Phase). You have a -1 recoil modifier carrying over from the first burst, so you're facing a total recoil modifier of -4. Your recoil compensation has already been fully applied (on the first burst), so your recoil modifier for the second burst is -4.
(Another way of looking at the second burst is to consider the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -3 for the second burst, for a total of -5. Subtract the 1 point of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -4.)
Example #2:
You are firing an assault rifle in full-auto mode. Your first attack is a regular 3-round burst, which incurs a -2 recoil modifier. You have 3 points of recoil compensation, however, so on this first attack you suffer no recoil modifiers.
For your second Simple Action, you fire a long burst of 6 bullets: an additional -6 recoil modifier. You have no recoil modifier carrying over from the first attack, but you do have 1 point of unapplied recoil compensation left (since you only used 2 of the 3 to negate the -2 modifier on the first attack). So on this second attack you suffer a -5 recoil modifier.
(Another way of looking at the second burst is to consider the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -6 for the second burst, for a total of -8. Subtract the 3 points of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -5.)
Example #3:
You are firing a medium machine gun in full-auto mode. MMGs count as heavy weapons, so all uncompensated recoil is doubled. Luckily you're using a gyro-mount that applies 6 points of recoil compensation!
On your first attack, a 3-round burst with a Simple Action, you're facing a -2 recoil modifier. Your recoil compensation eats that up, leaving you suffering no modifier.
On your second attack, a 6-round long burst with another Simple Action, you're facing an additional -6 recoil modifier. You have 4 points of your recoil compensation left (6 - 2), so that recoil modifier is reduced to -2. However, you're firing a heavy weapon, so it's doubled to -4.
(Again, you can look at the second burst via the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -6 for the second burst, for a total of -8. Subtract the 6 points of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -2, doubled to -4.)
Example #4:
This time you're firing your full-auto assault rifle against three targets. You take a Complex Action to fire a full burst, applying one 3-round burst against each target. Your recoil compensation is -2.
For the first target, you suffer a -2 recoil modifier. Your recoil compensation nullifies this, so you attack with no recoil modifiers.
On the second target, you pick up an additional -3 recoil. You have no cumulative recoil to apply from the first attack, and no recoil comp left, so you suffer -3.
On the third target, you pick up an additional -3 again. This time you have the -3 recoil from the previous attack to add to, and you used up your recoil compensation already, so now you're facing -6.
Recoil modifiers are cumulative, but they only apply for that Action Phase. They do not carry over to additional Action Phases in a Combat Turn.
Recoil compensation only applies once during an entire Action Phase. In other words, each point of Recoil Compensation counteracts 1 point of Recoil modifiers for that entire Action Phase.
There are several things to keep in mind about recoil:
a) The first bullet never counts.
b) Every bullet fired in an Action Phase after the first incurs a cumulative -1 recoil dice pool modifier.
c) Each point of recoil compensation counteracts 1 point of recoil modifier.
Example #1:
Let's say you're firing a submachine gun in burst fire mode (3 bullets), with 1 point of recoil compensation. With your first Simple Action, you suffer a recoil modifier of -2 (first bullet is free, next two count). You have 1 point of recoil compensation, however, so that recoil modifier is reduced to -1.
On your second Simple Action, you suffer an additional -3 recoil modifier (three more bullets in the same Action Phase). You have a -1 recoil modifier carrying over from the first burst, so you're facing a total recoil modifier of -4. Your recoil compensation has already been fully applied (on the first burst), so your recoil modifier for the second burst is -4.
(Another way of looking at the second burst is to consider the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -3 for the second burst, for a total of -5. Subtract the 1 point of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -4.)
Example #2:
You are firing an assault rifle in full-auto mode. Your first attack is a regular 3-round burst, which incurs a -2 recoil modifier. You have 3 points of recoil compensation, however, so on this first attack you suffer no recoil modifiers.
For your second Simple Action, you fire a long burst of 6 bullets: an additional -6 recoil modifier. You have no recoil modifier carrying over from the first attack, but you do have 1 point of unapplied recoil compensation left (since you only used 2 of the 3 to negate the -2 modifier on the first attack). So on this second attack you suffer a -5 recoil modifier.
(Another way of looking at the second burst is to consider the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -6 for the second burst, for a total of -8. Subtract the 3 points of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -5.)
Example #3:
You are firing a medium machine gun in full-auto mode. MMGs count as heavy weapons, so all uncompensated recoil is doubled. Luckily you're using a gyro-mount that applies 6 points of recoil compensation!
On your first attack, a 3-round burst with a Simple Action, you're facing a -2 recoil modifier. Your recoil compensation eats that up, leaving you suffering no modifier.
On your second attack, a 6-round long burst with another Simple Action, you're facing an additional -6 recoil modifier. You have 4 points of your recoil compensation left (6 - 2), so that recoil modifier is reduced to -2. However, you're firing a heavy weapon, so it's doubled to -4.
(Again, you can look at the second burst via the total modifiers: -2 for the first burst and -6 for the second burst, for a total of -8. Subtract the 6 points of recoil compensation and you have a recoil modifier of -2, doubled to -4.)
Example #4:
This time you're firing your full-auto assault rifle against three targets. You take a Complex Action to fire a full burst, applying one 3-round burst against each target. Your recoil compensation is -2.
For the first target, you suffer a -2 recoil modifier. Your recoil compensation nullifies this, so you attack with no recoil modifiers.
On the second target, you pick up an additional -3 recoil. You have no cumulative recoil to apply from the first attack, and no recoil comp left, so you suffer -3.
On the third target, you pick up an additional -3 again. This time you have the -3 recoil from the previous attack to add to, and you used up your recoil compensation already, so now you're facing -6.
2. You would search for the targets commlink node (WiFi-Scan, likely a hidden node), and exploit it for the required level of access rights. If the cyberware is slaved to the commlink, it can be controlled via the master node.
Messing with the settings is a "change device settings" free action. The cyberarm-punches are a bit harder; a command device complex action, and you are limited to moving the arm - the rest of the body might actually oppose the attack.
I recommend that you check out Aaron´s hacker cards, as well as his cheat sheets. Those are great.
Unwired is a solid book, and the player of your TM would likely love it to death. Just saying.
As for starting with the matrix rules, I do hope that this approach helps.
Wait... He gets two simple actions on his first pass, right?
See, this is where I'm confused. Why aren't his first pass dicepools 18 and 16? Recoil Compensation does take out the full penalty from the first burst, right... and leaves one over from the second to absorb part of the -3?
And a long burst is only -5... Shouldn't that make his second Dicepools 16 and 13? (-5, reduced by 3 for -2 so DP of 18. Then -1 for a second shot, and -2 from the first actions recoil, and -2 from the second burst, for a total of 13?)
See, this is where I'm confused. Why aren't his first pass dicepools 18 and 16? Recoil Compensation does take out the full penalty from the first burst, right... and leaves one over from the second to absorb part of the -3?
And a long burst is only -5... Shouldn't that make his second Dicepools 16 and 13? (-5, reduced by 3 for -2 so DP of 18. Then -1 for a second shot, and -2 from the first actions recoil, and -2 from the second burst, for a total of 13?)
Sorry, yeah. You're right, add 2 to all the DPs I gave. I noticed half my errors through my first batch of edits and forgot that Recoil is one less than the number of rounds. Machine Guns and larger double uncompensated recoil, though. Hence the "*2" in "(X-3)*2".
AH! Thank you Ryu!!
Thank you so much... I'm looking for the FAQ now. I didn't know that even existed. My eyes are opened.
(And I'm playing the TM... so I thank you!)
Thank you so much... I'm looking for the FAQ now. I didn't know that even existed. My eyes are opened.
(And I'm playing the TM... so I thank you!)
8(AGL)+6(skill)+2(specialization)+2(smart)=18
First pass:
first burst: -2 recoil from the burst. The gun covers 3, so you're safe. 18 dice
second burst: It's now -5 for recoil for the phase, and the gun covered 3 of those, leaving 2. It's a heavy weapon, so double all uncompensated recoil, for a -4. 14 dice
Second pass:
long burst: -5 recoil from the burst. Gun covers 3, the 2 left over is doubled, for -4. 14 dice
short burst: -8 total recoil for the phase. Gun covers 3, leaving 5 to be doubled, for -10. 8 dice
Third pass:
Suppressive fire causes no recoil penalty, and does not allow the use of targeting mods like smartlink. Roll 16 dice.
I highly recommend further recoil mods to the gun. Gas vent 3, stock, bipod, are easy mods. Tripod, when possible.
First pass:
first burst: -2 recoil from the burst. The gun covers 3, so you're safe. 18 dice
second burst: It's now -5 for recoil for the phase, and the gun covered 3 of those, leaving 2. It's a heavy weapon, so double all uncompensated recoil, for a -4. 14 dice
Second pass:
long burst: -5 recoil from the burst. Gun covers 3, the 2 left over is doubled, for -4. 14 dice
short burst: -8 total recoil for the phase. Gun covers 3, leaving 5 to be doubled, for -10. 8 dice
Third pass:
Suppressive fire causes no recoil penalty, and does not allow the use of targeting mods like smartlink. Roll 16 dice.
I highly recommend further recoil mods to the gun. Gas vent 3, stock, bipod, are easy mods. Tripod, when possible.
Comprehensive and succinct. Thank you very much, Wind.
Ryu, I think all this stuff you've linked me may answer my questions from my 'Matrix Example' post lower on the front page (still). I'd appreciate an opinion on what kind of opposition a hacker should expect trying to get their info back from LoneStar though. Care to take a crack at it?
Ryu, I think all this stuff you've linked me may answer my questions from my 'Matrix Example' post lower on the front page (still). I'd appreciate an opinion on what kind of opposition a hacker should expect trying to get their info back from LoneStar though. Care to take a crack at it?
QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Jan 1 2009, 08:19 PM) 
Second pass:
long burst: -4 recoil from the burst. Gun covers 3, the 1 left over is doubled, for -2. 16 dice
short burst: -7 total recoil for the phase. Gun covers 3, leaving 4 to be doubled, for -8. 10 dice
long burst: -4 recoil from the burst. Gun covers 3, the 1 left over is doubled, for -2. 16 dice
short burst: -7 total recoil for the phase. Gun covers 3, leaving 4 to be doubled, for -8. 10 dice
shoud be:
long burst: -5 recoil from the burst. Gun covers 3, the 2 left over is doubled, for -4. 14 dice
short burst: -8 total recoil for the phase. Gun covers 3, leaving 5 to be doubled, for -10. 8 dice
Oops, you're right! Sorry, JFixer.
I fixed my post above.
I fixed my post above.
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