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blindfox
so my RL game consists of just me, another player, and the GM. being in iraq we havent got much selection of players. i prefer a game to be serious interrupted every now and then with hilarity instead of the other way around. also, having been out of the rpg scene for a while we're still bumbling our way around the rules systems and setting.
now i understand that every group has its own style and i dont want to step on anyone's toes and ruin their fun.

how would you guys handle the situation?
Muspellsheimr
I would begin by asking you to explain what the situation is...
ICPiK
I've been in the same situation before, and found that stepping more into character and prompting the other PC's to speak in character by calling them by character name and hashing plans and using a lot of the SR slang it will maybe suck them in a little more. I'm just as guilty and on a good caffeine bender have been extremely prone to outbursts or tangents of silliness. Mostly i like it serious so we all get into character and have an edge of the couch kinda game. Hope my rambling helped a lil.

BlueMax
I am the Goof Off.

Best thing people can do is tell me they want me to be serious. People have to be stern and tell me what's what.
On the flipside, the folks best damned know what they request. Was told to stop goofing off in a game, went to brass tacks and then got a drubbing for not providing the usual color.

Just be honest. In the end, it always works best.
eidolon
That's bound to be rough, especially in a situation like yours. Even if you're not directly in the shit every day, you guys are still in an environment that's made of Serious Business, so it could be that the folks in your group are just reacting by going 180 degrees away from that.

I think the best thing you can do is just sit them down and have a frank, out of game discussion the way you're laying it out to us. "Hey guys, I want to have fun too, but I'd like to be able to get a little more serious during games," and see where it goes.

It may need to be a compromise. Serious games for a bit, and then a game where they can totally cut loose (maybe even a different system, or at least different characters/continuity).

I've been there, I know exactly what you mean. I'm actually a little worried that my current group (newly formed, going to start with the Necessary Evil campaign) is a little too light hearted for my play style, so I may end up doing the same thing. smile.gif
Backgammon
My first advice is that if you're going to talk in someone's back (even with the best of intentions), make sure said person does not regularly read DSF...
blindfox
well let me describe our group real quick:
GM: experienced gamer and an uber nerd, but hasn't played an rpg in a while. he's still learning the rules, but has a hard time focusing and grasping concepts. his settings and characters thus far lack depth, but since its been a while for all of us its still a work in progress.

the other player: one cool muldoon. hes funny, animated, and exuberant, but not exactly the brightest penny in the fountain. and he plays a troll bear shaman. now i love the guy to death, but he just has a hard time being serious and staying in character. he's like a 13 year old kid trapped in a beefy infantryman's body. by speaking with him you wouldnt expect him to do or have done the things we do. but still a super awesome dude and a good friend. his main experience lies with d&d where he plays the silly roles.

me: an experienced gamer and, sadly, a bit stuffy most of the time. (the shrinks call it "emotional numbing." bah.) i, too, have been away from rpg's for a long time and its taking me a while to get back into the swing of it. eventually i'll take over as GM so our current one can get some time playing, hence my addition to the forums so i can be ready and up to the task when my time comes.

at the table:
we blunder through rules and scenes, missing key mechanics and good rp opportunities. we're also having trouble getting our thoughts and actions in sequence of time, and our characters seem to lack grounding in the setting. we're all equally guilty of this at this point. a good time is had by all regardless, though. we seem to be missing the depth of the experience that i recall from 'back in the day.'

we are still having fun. none of us are rules lawyers but we end up questioning them and referencing the book more out of necessity than quibbling. our settings and character backgrounds are coming along slowly. ive done the '20 questions' plus a few, courtesy of bastard, and the others are beginning to do theirs. all the game elements are there for shadowrun but it just doesnt feel like shadowrun yet.

im not trying to force anyone to play other than their style, im just trying to find ways to overcome the rampant silliness and tweak our game into a more memorable experience. i really would like some tips from you guys to help us make it more enriching.

i hope im not being an elitist son of a bitch and if it sounds like i am, please tell me.
blindfox
QUOTE (Backgammon @ May 1 2009, 01:00 AM) *
My first advice is that if you're going to talk in someone's back (even with the best of intentions), make sure said person does not regularly read DSF...

and there's very little we dont know about each other. unit cohesion and all that smile.gif we have no problem telling each otehr what we think of each other and, in fact, encourage it. im not gonna be hurting anyone's feelings with this smile.gif
eidolon
Nah, you aren't. You're coming off as someone that's honestly interested in making the game better.

That said, though, I'm not sure that you need to do a whole lot. When I read
QUOTE (blindfox)
we are still having fun. none of us are rules lawyers but we end up questioning them and referencing the book more out of necessity than quibbling. our settings and character backgrounds are coming along slowly. ive done the '20 questions' plus a few, courtesy of bastard, and the others are beginning to do theirs. all the game elements are there for shadowrun but it just doesnt feel like shadowrun yet.


it seems to me like the group is getting there on its own. Shadowrun is a pretty complex game, not just in rules but the vastness of the setting. I'm not surprised that everyone is taking some time to get grounded.

Still, if you wanted to hurry things, you could have a discussion about everyone's view of the game/game world. You could tell them how you think it could stand to be more serious, and see what they think. Be ready to accept that you might hear that they have equally valid reasons to play it a little silly (you should really grab a copy of SR1 sometime and look at the archetypes, they rule), and that you might have to meet them halfway.

I'll stop waxing on now. biggrin.gif
Backgammon
I'd be wary of your "back in the day" memories. Memories tend to warp. It probably wasn't only what you remember.

In my experience, building a game take a long time. Before that solid feeling of being in a world, and not just playing a character that responds to challenges, take a lot of games.

That being said, personality types do come out in gaming. And if you're looking for a very serious game, and someone else likes to joke and goof off, that can certainly clash (and you're not an elitist asshat for thinking so). Honestly, the only thing you can do is talk to the player. Try to reach a middle ground. He isn't going to stop being a joker, but maybe he can tone it down to a point you can live with. If that doesn't work, find a new group (yes, I know how hard that is!). You can't force someone to change his personality, so your options are limited.
SincereAgape
Let the game develop. And mainly this falls on the responsibility of the GM. The GM is the storyteller and he or she is also the leader of the group. If the Gm wants a serious game, then he will direct it towards that.

1. Be patient. The three of you have just started. It's hard to take a game 100% serious when everyone is still learning the rules.

2. There is nothing wrong with slapstick and jokes. Much like anything in life, balance is the key.
eidolon
Moved to General Gaming.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled philosophizing. smile.gif
blindfox
we've discussed these issues and are indeed making some progress. after the first run our GM gave us practically a king's ransom in rewards. my character wouldnt have to take a job for another 6 months with the initial haul. i thought it was a little too much. we talked about it and axed some of the reward and have agreed to keep it a little more tempered. you know, give us just slightly more than we need, but not enough to get what we want. right now, my character's main motivation is not nuyen, but contacts. we had to explain to the other player that just because he's a troll he doesnt necessarily speak in fractured frankenstein-speak, as his INT is 4. he's still having a lot of fun with it (especially his axe)
thank you guys for soothing my fears of being too overbearing.
and the greatest tip so far is to just take it slow. i guess im just trying to bite off more than we can chew for the moment.

aside: there was a thread last week about SR-esque pics. i dl'ed every single one of them and we use them in player handouts. when the fixer gives us a dossier, the GM gives us a thumb drive. im very grateful to the board at large for these kinds of aids
Kliko
Rule Zero: Have fun!

For the rest don't focus on rule nitpicking, but use the ultimate GM-rule of handwaving (rule numer one?) and run your game in cinematic style! (until GM and players are more familiar with the ruleset).

Trust your GM not to screw over the players and as players don't srew over your GM (i.e. trust eachother, but given your in the same unit that should not be the issue).

Make sure everbody has his expectations lined up in regard to troupe-style. Where do you want to play in the spectrum pink mohawk-black? (there is an entire thread somewhere on the differences between both gaming/setting styles).

If your GM lacks time to prepare the runs, feel free to revert to the old sr3 missions. They're still around somewhere in the archives.
deek
I'd have to second the "back in the day" feeling. You are likely never going to get that feeling back. That's really just the way it is...but, you can still have a helluva lot of fun.

I'd also agree with the complexity of the shadowrun metaplot. I first started playing SR in the early-mid 90's and I really didn't know anything of the storylines going on. We didn't use magic and besides using the map in the back of the core book, didn't know anything about Seattle or anything else going on. We just played in our own microcosm, for for a bunch of DnDers, it was fun to play fantasy in the future...with all the tech and firearms.

I never played 2nd or 3rd edition, but am on my second 4th edition campaign. I always feel like I am missing some much flavor when we play, because I want the player to be immersed in the world...but really, that's not something that is going to happen for many more years to come. None of my players are knowledgeable when it comes to the metaplot, but all have played the game.

So, I just take it slow...introduce little things here and there...and over time, as the GM, the feel and flavor starts to come out. But it is a conscious thing the GM has to do. Shadowrun is easily played without any of the metaplot going on in the background. And at times, when I have run that way, then come to the boards and read all these posts about SURGE, politics, major NPCs and such...I feel like I am missing out because those types of things aren't considered in my games...but, it just takes time.

And some days everyone feels goofy and other days there is more seriousness...just keep playing and having fun and I am sure it will work itself out to a happy balance. Just be honest and if things get too silly, speak up (as it sounds like you have) and let them know. Obviously as GM, you can direct the tone a little more than as a player. And those that like the tone of your campaign will enjoy playing and likely talk about it to others, which should get like-minded players to replace those that don't "feel" it.
paws2sky
QUOTE (blindfox @ Apr 30 2009, 06:07 PM) *
at the table:
we blunder through rules and scenes, missing key mechanics and good rp opportunities. we're also having trouble getting our thoughts and actions in sequence of time, and our characters seem to lack grounding in the setting. we're all equally guilty of this at this point. a good time is had by all regardless, though. we seem to be missing the depth of the experience that i recall from 'back in the day.'

we are still having fun. none of us are rules lawyers but we end up questioning them and referencing the book more out of necessity than quibbling. our settings and character backgrounds are coming along slowly. ive done the '20 questions' plus a few, courtesy of bastard, and the others are beginning to do theirs. all the game elements are there for shadowrun but it just doesnt feel like shadowrun yet.

im not trying to force anyone to play other than their style, im just trying to find ways to overcome the rampant silliness and tweak our game into a more memorable experience. i really would like some tips from you guys to help us make it more enriching.

i hope im not being an elitist son of a bitch and if it sounds like i am, please tell me.


For what its worth, I think you're well within your rights to pine for "the good old days." But if everyone is having fun, as you say, and you're blowing off steam, its probably a good outlet.

Give it a bit more time. If you're just starting out, you're bound to blunder through the rules. In fact, if the rules are getting in the way of RP, maybe set them to the side a bit and make an off-the-cuff ruling. Make a note to refer back to the book during a break or after the game to see how something is supposed to be played. No edition of SR has been "rules lite."

If you need to, the out of character session might be a good idea. Or... maybe you could GM a couple adventures to give the other guys an idea of how your perceive the SRverse? That might be a better way to get across your POV.

-paws
Blade
"That's serious business! We're playing here!" wink.gif

QUOTE ("blindfox")
we blunder through rules and scenes, missing key mechanics and good rp opportunities. we're also having trouble getting our thoughts and actions in sequence of time, and our characters seem to lack grounding in the setting. we're all equally guilty of this at this point. a good time is had by all regardless, though. we seem to be missing the depth of the experience that i recall from 'back in the day.'


Rules and character grounding just take time. You can't expect a new character to have as much depth as a character you've been playing for years.
But I have the impression that you might also lack "in character" scenes. The GM should try to describe the situation as seen by the characters, and ask them what they do at a specific point in time.

For example, if the group has to catch someone between the time he's getting out of his car and the time he enters a building, once you've decided on what you'll do (which is better if done IC but is sometime hard to do) you shouldn't focus on the overall plan ("the guy gets out of his car, the mage stuns the bodyguard, the... oh yes before that we got our car close to where he'd stop.") but on the actual action ("You're in your car, and the target is already 10 minutes late. You wonder if he'll show up at all. Finally, his car arrives and stops in front of the building. What do you do?") playing it as the character rather than as some kind of omniscient entity that controls the PC as if they were minis in a wargame.
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