Well I didn’t get an answer in the chat so I guess I will ask it here and hope for better response. In the final Denver Mission (SRM02-25) my team received 3 points of Public Awareness (1pt for surviving and 2 for Waldo). Public awareness is a derived field (sum of Street Cred and Notoriety divided by 3 rounded down) Public awareness can be reduced by spending 2 pt of street cred to reduce 1 pt of notoriety but I can’t get rid of the the 3 pts I picked up directly (which I didn’t even know could happen until we got it at the end of this mission)

So my question is how can I get rid or buy off these 3 pts of public awareness once I go to NY?

There other two questions I had are:

I have a free sprite contact and a Technomancer contact, can I use the two of them to get the 40% discount for submersion

Finally can we use threading as a valid spec for software? And what else can a Technomancer use his software for in the missions?

Just as a player replying. . .
You get to NY with no contacts at all. You have to rebuild them. And as for what you can do in missions with your software, I would try to get Wasabi to respond. That man really knows how to have fun with a Technomancer in missions. He is the one I tend to run with and is great. And just remember a caster with the shape change spell is your friend! You can still hack in bird form just as well as human.

The questions are helping me decided if i want to take my current TM to NY or make a new one so the Contact question is a what if i make a new one.

Ohhh, new trick! Thank You!

PM sent

Since Unnamed TM needs basic info here is a by the book answer. If its not accurate please holler!
-Wasabi
________________________________________________________________________________


Unnamed TM,

Honestly most GM's haven't got the first damn clue about TM's so there isn't a widely used, set-in-stone method in place. Go by the book and show them the book to make it super easy on everyone. The rulebook, Missions FAQ, and of course Unwired are the sole references and some GM's will ask you how it works and watch you roll while others will look it up. To be courteous I'd suggest showing them the bit from Unwired pg144 quoted below, make your rolls, spend your Karma, and drive on with things that wont annoy the other players waiting to play.

A note of warning: Now that SRM's use SR4A your Extended Tests lose 1 die every iteration.

TIP: Spend post-mission Edge to get the needed hits faster on the Data Search roll listed below.
TIP: You can halve the interval to a half-day by glitching on 1's and 2's and if you have access to a machine sprite or other sprite with the Stability power you can then be immune to Glitches entirely thus getting your extended tests done in half the time. It is up to your GM at the time if you can compile one sprite and register another to assist in the Data Search. My personal fave is to use Courier sprites with the Marker power emblazoning a "LFG: Submerging" in resonance on their chest. Only resonance creatures can see Marker tags after all.
TIP: If you need TM's to help you with sprites you don't have in your stream [Paladin and Task come to mind] then bear in mind Registered sprites can be loaned out. Provided the loaning TM spends the lifestyle to get the sprite and counts it against his CHA-based limit you can use other TM's sprites to help you and you can do the same to help them. Co-op play isn't just at the table but it all has to be documented ahead of time on a cert or during a run amongst the players IN that run of course.


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Unwired, page 144:
"Temporary party networks are easier to find and require a Resonance + Data Search (8, 1 day) Extended Test, if an appropriate party is currently set up or is being formed (gamemaster's discretion)."
==================

Threading reference removed by Wasabi

If you get the Sift submerging technique, a few submerging levels, Sprite assistants, and thread it like the dickens you could potentially find a Party within 3-5 hours. A TM with Sift that has Submerged 8 times can do it instantly. Eat THAT, hackers! (/smirk)

I'm a player so take what I say with a grain of salt. Common sense would say that if its a single use for Software you could specialize in that singular usage so you get better at that one use for the Software skill but I as a player cant make rulings about interpretation. The SR4A entry for the Software skill lists "Special Utilities (specify)" and thats a bit broad. I have used a specialization in Threading since the Denver campaign started and haven't been told its not valid thus far but hey, that's not permission merely me relating my experience. I leave an official ruling to the Powers-That-Be.

Wasabi saying Threading attempts for a specific CF stack with each other removed

As for other uses for the Software skill, I do a lot with Cracked Software and forging Lifestyles and making hacked Permits via the rules in Unwired. If you have no need to do electronic forgeries you can probably limit your software skill.

UT--You did exactly as requested, and I thank you for that. Some of the questions did not get answered during the chat, and as promised I will be uploading all of the Q&A along. I'm asking for some patience. The information will be posted as soon as possible, and no later than this Saturday (one week from the chat).

I have answers to everything in the shorthand that I used during my discussion with Aaron to get formal responses, though to be honest I don't think: Y, SK2LB, N, C-FAQ will help anyone.

A quick note: If you have a Rating 2 CF and thread up 2 hits you have a Rating 4 CF, if you choose to try and thread again, the results do not stack as Wasabi suggested. The proper order of operations would be to Thread, apply hits and Resist Fading. If you decide that you need more hits, drop the Thread and roll Threading a separate time. (I confirmed this with one of the Developers)

I would strongly recommend that a TM not be allowed to Thread more than once per Test to keep the flow of actions moving.

(Special Thanks to Backgammon for rattling my cage and getting me in here. I'm neck deep in revisions to drafts at the moment.)

Cool by me. I've been going off the books and lack access to devs.
They need to put the lack of Threading stacking with itself in an SR4A Errata.

[My above posts have been edited of now-incorrect statements about rethreading and a reply referencing this crossposted to the thread in the main SR forum where rethreading is discussed.]

Rethreading discussed: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry817043

If the GM decides such a thing is necessary for drama or pacing, or whatever. The Changes Document is poorly worded and makes this seem like it is a required rule, whereas the actual text of SR4A makes it a "suggestion", to be used if GMs wish to limit the number of rolls made in an extended test. It's not officially an Optional Rule (which would make its use in Mission invalid if I remember correctly), but neither is it completely RAW.

Kingboy--As Wasabi quoted, Shadowrun Missions uses the reduction in pool on Extended Tests. (Specifically, we apply it to all tests done between sessions as it becomes a simple mathematical question for whether you can or can't do something and does not require GM arbitration. See the Missions FAQ for more details.)

All--I am formatting the notes up now, and should have the questions/answers posted soon.

Ah--righto. I haven't bothered to keep up with the Missions FAQ. Our group has used a lot of the Denver stuff, but we long since stopped caring whether those characters were Missions compatible. Good to know though.

Q—How do Technomancer-created programs (not complex forms) interact with drones and nodes? Do Technomancers need to learn Software twice?

A—Technomancers have an inherent understanding of computer systems that is drastically different from standard hackers. To write an actual program, not a Complex Form (CF) for a drone or node, the Technomancer would follow the standard programming guidelines. This program will degrade per normal rules, and must be patched by the technomancer. (This would be very similar to Freeware.)

Q-How do Dice Caps apply to armor? A literal reading of the SRMFAQ Revised would not allow vehicles or trolls decked out in armor to receive their appropriate values.

A-In short, they don’t. Dice Caps apply to Skill Tests, whereas Armor is generally applied to Damage Resistance Tests. If, for some reason, your character was to roll a Skill Test that involved Armor (say an Athletics + Armor Test) then the standard caps for a Skill test would apply.

Q-Technomancers can do tasks to reduce the cost of Submergence and mages/shamans/adepts can do ordeals to reduce the cost of Initiation. How does this work in SRM?

A-All activities which are being completed between Missions follow the standard rules as laid in the SRMissions FAQ. (http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/srm_faq.shtml) Certain tasks, such as a Metaplanar Quest or Great Hack will not be compatible with this system and thus unsuitable for characters to utilize between Missions. Later Missions may provide opportunities for characters to undertake these ordeals/tasks.

Q-Also, magicians have to find other PCs with magicians to form magic groups. Is it the same for technomancers forming parties/guilds?

A- There is no specific requirement for a PC Magician to form a magic group with other PCs. This is encouraged and supported by the Shadowrun Missions team as a way to build more unity within the community and remove some of the hardship associated with finding a Magic Group normally. That said, Technomancer characters may form Guilds amongst them per normal rules, if they would like to do so. For parties, please follow the standard rules on page 144, Unwired.

Q-Another question I have in regards to the missions and Technomancers. I have a Free Sprite as a contact and I have a Technomancer group as a contact can I use the two contacts to get the 40% discount on Submersions?

A-There may be some confusion between a group as a contact and being a member of the group. If you are a member of the Network, you can qualify for the 20% discount from the Technomancer group. (Pursuant to the above stipulations about activities between Missions) To qualify for the second 20% discount, for a total of 40%, you would need to successfully undertake a Task.

I think you misunderstood my question, there is a task called Reassembling that requires me to sacrifice a registered sprite to a free sprite. Could I use my free sprite contact for this. Second I didn’t see anything in Unwired that said a TM needed to be part of a Network to get the 20% discount he only needed to be part of a party which if allowed I could get a party going with my TM group contact.

The Network/Guild/Party has to be larger based on the level of Submersion so eventually you'll have to do the Data Search way to build a Party anyways.

Unnamed--The Reassembling Task (p. 142 Unwired) requires an Entropic Sprite. There are no known Free Entropic Sprites, per p. 179 Unwired. Was there a different Submersion Task that you were referring to?

The clarification for the Network is that you would either need to be a member of the Network to qualify for the discount, or follow the standard rules for a Party as found on p. 144, Unwired.

No problem. It is a fun way to combine magics.

it has the same result, different method of getting there. there is even a canon reference to a TM who codes regular software in a weird way, making it hard for competitors to copy it, iirc.


this was clarified shortly after unwired was released; the author was apparently thinking of free sprites, and said they used to be called entropic sprites iirc. in any event, entropic sprites do not have to reassemble, and free sprites do; it's fairly evidently not intended to refer to entropic sprites.

Jaid--As listed in the page references, the Reassembling Task requires an Entropic Sprite. My ruling was based on the facts as they are, rather than intentions. There was no revision listed in the Errata, correcting the verbiage and after confirming with Aaron, I am going to stand by the ruling. If a later errata changes the verbiage from Entropic sprite to Free sprite, then it will be possible.

To your first point, please let me know what the page reference was, neither Aaron nor I are familiar with it.

suit yourself on the entropic sprite thing (i have to admit, i'm surprised it wasn't errated yet as well, given it is technically impossible as well as being nonsensical)

[edit]: if it helps any, this is the answer to the question about entropic sprites, and this is where the question was asked. not sure if that helps any, but at least you can see i'm not just making stuff up i was wrong on the previous edition though, looks like it was a previous version of the text... (guess maybe we'll have to bug the devs about this and see if we can get it added to the errata) [/edit]

as to the reference to TMs coding software:



going back to the rules on the subject, the rules reference is:


reading this, i'm not sure how you can interpret it to mean that technomancer software skill cannot be used to do the same things as regular software skill. it doesn't say "this skill has a completely different effect" anywhere, it just says "this skill takes a different path of getting the same result". specifically, the part where it describes the rules effects (ie "in game terms") it states what the differences are: can't be found as a skillsoft, can't be taught to non-technomancers. if a technomancer takes the TM version of hardware, are they unable to modify hardware with it? if they take the TM version of hacking, do their matrix actions suddenly have different results? can they no longer exploit non-resonance based nodes? is TM cybercombat skill only good for attacking sprites and other TMs?

i expect your answer to all of those questions is that technomancers can modify regular hardware, exploit regular nodes, and attack regular icons. why is software going to suddenly have some other result? it will produce code that is a nightmare to decipher. in modern terms, TMs could use a lot of 'goto' commands, possibly at the end of every line. their variables may be named things like "0110111001", they probably have no comments, they might use commands in unusual ways, and put their own versions of functions that already exist in random locations, with names or images that are not the standard for those functions. they may not write from start to finish, nor even write each line consecutively, but rather in a 10-line program they might write line 4, then 7, then 2, then 3, then 10, etc, and it may be entirely written in binary or machine code. i can tell you now, if you were to hand something coded like that to a modern computer sciences major, you need not expect them to let you know how it works anytime soon, especially if the program was hundreds of thousands of lines long (given shadowrun's arbitrarily large storage capacity, it could even be millions of lines). but nevertheless, if you were to compile it, the program would still run.

Jaid--

Aaron and I have discussed the ruling and reviewed the information you provided. The Fluff certainly supports a Technomancer writing Programs, and the rules do not overrule it. If a Technomancer writes a program, treat it as Pirated Software with normal degradation. The Technomancer can Patch the program per normal rules in Unwired. The patching process would be marked on the calendar and be treated as standard activities done during off-time.

To patch a program that has degraded by one point it takes one hit on a Software+Logic [1 week] test. So a hacker needs 1 hit and lets say he has Logic 5 and Software 4 and a Programming Suite 5. This gives him 14 dice. In downtime he gets 3 hits when using the 4:1 rule. With his 3 hits he patches 3 degraded rating points on a program. Can he also use his three hits to patch 3 programs by one point each?

BY the rules, I'd say probably not, since I believe each program technically requires a separate test. I'd have to double check the Extended Test rules to be sure though.

For a ho0me game, I'd likely allow it, but for Missions, probably not so much.

Each Program being patched is a separate test. If you waited three months before Patching, you could fix all 3 points of degradation in one go.

Maybe I'm blind but in 3rd ed extra hits could reduce the interval of an extended test... has that been removed from SR4/SR4a? I can't find it if its still in there...

nope, it's gone. reasonable houserule, mind you, but it's not the default anymore.

Thanks, Jaid, wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.