'Lo again to the 'shock - it's summer, I'm bored, and whenever I get bitten by the boredom bug I find that there's nothing better than a kick ass game of Shadowrun to cure that shit. It's been awhile since I've run a game on DS, and I've always had a blast every time I played or GMed here, so I'm thinking about giving it another go-round. I forgot like half the rules already, and after doing some brushing up with the SR4 corebook, I realized how much I hate the SR4 rules. I remember I had a whole bunch of house rules drafted up to fix all my major beefs with the system, but then my computer got wiped by a virus and there's not a trace of it to be found anymore.

The solution: go back to old school and run an SR3 game. However, it's been awhile since SR got ported to 4th edition and I'm not sure if there's even anyone around anymore who knows how to play 3rd edition. Hence, this is a tentative casting call to gauge interest in a PbP SR3 game - if I were to run a game, would anyone want to sign up to be a sucker...whoops, I mean, player?

Sorry to hear about your computer. I had a blast gaming with you last year, in your Origins game, and I would sign up in a heartbeat except that I don't have any of my old SR3 books anymore (and have probably forgotten most of the rule-differences, anyway). I actually really like SR4, but I remember agreeing with a lot of the things you didn't like about the game's rules the last time around.

I could look into... er... finding some SR3 books, if you catch my drift, but I'm not sure if I'll have any luck, or how long it would take me to get up to snuff and be able to put together a character, again.

From some of the posts I have seen around here, I'm sure there are enough old-school SR3-fans to put together a game - so I'll probably lurk around, regardless.

P.S. Welcome back.

Heya BlackHat! I had a great time gaming with you too, so lemme know if you manage to procure yourself a copy of the SR3 rules, would love to have you as a player again. Beware though, "finding" stuff was how my comp got wiped out (goddamn you, pirated copy of Bioshock! ) Anyway, I'm way rusty with the SR3 rules after not having played them in ages, so if we get a game fired up, I fully anticipate working with the players to get things running smoothly. I'm thinking about just beginning with the BBB and adding in the supplements later if the game progresses beyond one mission.

Welcome back, Krayola! Origins rocked! I'd be interested in an SR3 game - I still have some characters lying around. I would probably go with either Ice Queen or Viper, since they would be easiest to convert to "basic book" characters (just need to change a few tiny things). Both are Sorceress/Face types, Ice Queen also being good at mundane healing (DocWagon background).

Cheers, Glyph!

Still working on the whole rules system thing. I used to love to play deckers and riggers - but the combination of the now "outdated" tech (can you imagine lugging a laptop around with you everywhere you go? ) and the idea of relearning a whole new subsystem is probably going to turn me off to the idea this time around. We'll see how much of it comes back to me after relearning the major differences, and how I need as much of it as I can get. I might surprise myself, or see some stuff that brings back great memories and I can't pass up.

Unfortunately, I might inadvertently make a character as laughably useless as my first-ever hacker - who insisted of dual-wielding pistols (and he was neither ambidextrous nor trained in firearms) because it looked badass, and I drew him that way on a piece of paper when I was creating him. As I recall, I once spent a week reading up on all the necessary checks to perform a paydata-run for a downtime-heavy session our GM had planned. The run went through without a hitch until I got to the end, where I had located and decrypted the data, but now had to download the damn thing to my deck and realized that my stupid hacker never bought a "download" program - so security caught up to me well before the progress bar hit 10% and I had to bail on the whole thing. >.<

I wouldn't mind the idea of starting with BBB only - but if we're planning to include other books later, it would be nice if I could maybe set aside some resources, ahead of time, in case the game goes beyond one mission. I like the idea of keeping it simple at first, but, as I recall, certain splat books (rigger-3, man and machine - probably the magic and decker books, etc) were arguably more important than the BBB to their respective archtypes - and, in some cases, it might be a pain to try to get that stuff post-character creation (cyber and spells being the biggest offender) if my memory serves me. At least, in my experience, Shadowrun has always been (and continues to be) a game where you pretty much play the character you created - and he or she does not advance too far beyond that point.

I'm interested. Probably some muscle with a bit of electronics for b&e.

Ew to deckers and riggers. I never bothered to learn the rules for them since I almost never GMed back when I played SR3, and I don't really want to start now. I'll probably end up scrapping most of the rules for them and resolve all decking/rigging tests with a simple Computer/Vehicle skill roll, so if you really want to play one, it'll probably be a good idea to make your guy a hybrid who's cross-trained in other things. On the other hand, your dual-wielding hacker idea is actually feasible now.

On the plus side, the rest of the rules are coming back to me easier than I thought, so I'm prob gonna go ahead and allow the rest of the supplements. Excluding Matrix and Rigger 3, of course.

Okay, hint taken. To be fair, my old GM used to do basically the same thing. Until my dual-wielding hacker showed up, the team had never had a decker - and they had been playing that same game for the better part of the year. The decker always seemed to be off on his own, doing his own thing, with his own rule-system... and so the GM just made adventures that didn't *require* a decker and/or put in NPC deckers willing to help out for a share of the loot. My old decker did steal a lot of the limelight when he did his thing (since it took seconds in game, and more like 30-60 minutes in real life). In a forum-game I imagine it would roll out much the same way - only a decker could be stealing the show for weeks if not handled properly.

I'm looking over the BBB at the moment, and the old rules are coming back to me. I forgot about the combat pool. Lol. And target numbers! If nothing else, it will be fun to reread this stuff. HAHA, pagers? What magical technology they have in 2060.

Funny, I was just reading through Matrix the other day and thinking how sad it is that I will never get a chance to play an Otaku. SR3 almost totally passed me by, I only ever played it once but had a blast drawing the routing diagrams for all the gear in my Dwarfs twin cyber-arms.

It just dawned on me that SR3 used the priority system by default, with an option for point-buy (as opposed to SR4 which uses point-buy by default, with an option for a priority system).

Which of these do you prefer?

Also, I am thinking of attempting to do something in this game that couldn't really be done in SR4, particularly since SR4A (which, if I'm going to play SR3, seems like the right thing to do) - which is to make a Jack-of-all-Trades (via Skillwires) type character. I remember having a great time with a guy like that back in the day and having fun with it and as I recall, in SR3 they were not grossly over-expensive. Currently reading up on the relevant books, and re-learning the intricacies of SR3 computing - which, surprisingly, makes a lot more sense than some of the stuff in SR4 computing since its based off of existing technologies.

Lol, yeah, I remember having to draw up a diagram like that for a rigger character once.

Point buy, because Priority is for uncool people. I thought about giving BeCKS a whirl, but it seems like too much of a hassle to do all that math. Don't go off making characters yet though, because there will be definite house rules that may or may not influence your character creation decision process. More on this later.


See above.

Sounds fine. I haven't started adding anything up, but I have been trying to look at what's possible and not possible at character generation in 3rd edition (for example, availability <=8 rather than <=12, but maximum nuyen is like twice as much). If we were going to be using priority system, it would definitely put some limitations on some possibilities.

Also, if any of you guys have any personal beefs with the system, now is the time to voice them, cause I'm putting myself through a crash course with all the former edition rules right now and tweaking stuff I don't like.

Incidentally, does anyone know what happened with the SR3R project? There was a lot of good stuff there, but it seemed to have died.

Its still in progress (in spurts). The project was asked to leave dumpshock.
SR3R

How rude.

Aw poop, the last post is dated May 2nd.

Yeah, the main posters tend to contribute in spurts, feel free to contribute.

How do you guys feel about running Bug City? I've been playing a lot of Fallout 3, and it's making me think about running a more open-ended kinda game where the players don't get job after job handed to them on a plate, but instead have to go out there, talk to people, hunt down leads, and create their own adventures based on their own goals. Bug City seems like a perfect setting for such a game, and I've never run it before, so it'll be a new experience for me too. From what I hear from old-timers, it's one of the best written sourcebooks out there.

*Looks up from picking a super mutants nose with the Terrible Shotgun*

Chicago could be interesting, would we be starting after the wall comes up or as it happens? At this point I've revised my character concept, light Sam/tech wiz. Got this picture in my head of a guy with owl rim glasses and a smart riggered grenade launcher (think revolver from Triple X)

I'm thinking after, but just slightly after, so you guys will have a chance to influence the way things end up turning out, and maybe even become major players in the aftermath if you play your cards right.

I got to run Bug City once, it was a blast! Probably one of the best SR games that I ever ran. I got so nostalgic after initially reading your post about Bug City I dug out my insect spirit miniatures. As we speak...they surround my keyboard...enmasse!

Well, then you better submit a character when the official recruitment post goes up, or I'm gonna sneak into your house and steal all your miniatures.

I've never played bug city - but I *have* played a lot of fallout 3, and I like that a lot.

I'll probably have some questions, but I've heard about bits and pieces of what went down there. Enough to know that it takes a certain kind of runner to volunteer to go in. Are there other people (Wastelanders?) who still live there, or has anyone with any common sense evacuated or died? I got the impression that the city was quarantined and then they bombed the shit out of it, and sent in a lot of mercenaries to clean the place out. Are you thinking that we would be trapped inside, and just dealing with it however we can - or that we would be some sort of paramilitary team sent in to fix problems.

I guess, I'm curious if it would be like early fallout 3 in that we'd come across a lot of down-on-their-luck wastelanders who need things done, and are jsut trying to eek by... or is it more like late fallout 3 where the only people you ever see are wearing full power-armor and air-dropping in to either attack you, or assist you in attacking. =D

For Fallout 3, I initially tried making a character who was a charismatic thiefy-type in that game and quickly learned that my gun skills were almost the only thing that mattered. Sure, my charisma and thievery might net me a few more bottlecaps at the end of the day, but the only purpose those served was to buy more ammo so I could go back out there and fight.

When I started over as a firearm-focused character, it was a lot easier, and I had a lot more fun - but I suspect my character ended up being almost identical to everyone else's character, in the end.

It'll probably be a lot more like what you described as early Fallout 3 - although I'm only halfway through the game so I dunno what late Fallout 3 is like. I've only skimmed the sourcebook, but from what I can tell, there's still a lot of people trapped inside Chicago when the wall goes up, and since they're cut off from outside contact, they're forced to band together to survive the bugs, some shacking up in cooperative havens, others joining gangs. Resources are limited and it's dog eat dog out on the streets, with your fellow metahumans being just as big a threat as the insect spirits. You guys will probably play as Chicago inhabitants who have the misfortune of still being inside the Containment Zone when the quarantine comes down, as opposed to an outside strike team sent in to deal with the problem.

I've learned to always make gunbunnies when I play video games. Even though games like Fallout and Deus Ex try to add extra dimensions to the gameplay, shooting stuff up is usually still the best way to get stuff done. Video game technology simply hasnt advanced to the point where you can do whatever you want - but that's what I play SR for.

Yeah, I'll be sure not to spoil anything for you. Its not that the later game really has any less stuff in it - but, for me, I spent the first part of the game exploring this big huge world, and ignoring the main quest. That freed me up to meet other people, talk to them, see what they wanted done, etc. By the time I got around to doing the main quest (the later half), I had already seen most of what there was to be seen, so unless I needed to sell loot, or rest, I pretty much fast-traveled everywhere (so I wouldn't meet people) or ignored the ones I did meet, because I had already gotten what I could from them. That, and the difficulty of random monsters ramps up as you go along.

Someone who had intermixed the two might have had a more continuous experience.

But, yeah, what you describe sounds like fun. I'd be down for it - particularly if our characters can be shmoes who got caught in a bad situation (rather than the sorts of people who would willingly go there). It might make for some suboptimal characters, but it sounds like fun to me.

Oh no, I don't plan for you guys to be schmoes. You'll be building your characters with all the skills and abilities of a standard shadowrunner, although you may choose to have a more legitimate profession when you're coming up with the concept. Just because you're trapped inside the city doesn't mean that you're helpless...there are many people with the training and capacity to fight back against the bugs and rally other survivors, and those who do it best may rise to become warlords with their own slice of turf inside the containment zone.

It has been a while since I played SR3 but I still have my books and wouldn't mind giving it another try. Looks like the only thing you are down on so far are the Matrix/Rigger aspects?

I actually managed to soak up the rigger rules in SR3 pretty quickly so I might be convinced to allow a rigger into the game if someone really wants to play one. However, I don't have Rigger 3, so a rigger might find himself outclassed rules and gear wise compared to the other characters if all he can do is rig.

Deckers, there's no point in even playing since as far as I know, Chicago gets cut off from the Matrix after the wall goes up.

Yes, this was more the idea I thought you meant. I just meant "shmoe" as in someone who came to the city under normal pretense and got trapped rather than the mercenaries I was talking about earlier.

Either way, this sounds like fun to me.

Still plan on playing a sorcerer, but I might do a brand new one, since it sounds like, with the house rules, I will need to do a new build anyways. Someone a bit more durable than Ice Queen. Still at least semi-face with some other skills - but that's why I love sorcerers in SR3. It's so easy to make them versatile.

Couple of questions, bug city happened in 2055, there might be some issues with gear. There was limited matrix access inside the zone, setup by survivors with salvage from corps.

The hard part I'm having with building this character is to not make him have huge stockpiles of supplies, its hard not to meta game. I propose this, we the players were put together in Seattle for a run in Chicago, as we're doing our run the walls go up and we're trapped in the city.

It also seems like anyone with a satellite link would be able to access the Matrix (unless there is some jamming interference, which would also hose riggers) but the utility of accessing the matrix is probably much smaller - since it may not be connected to a lot of systems in the city that used to be online. Again, I'm not that familiar with cannon-lore, but even in fallout-3 there were offline systems that certain characters could hack into.

Then again, Krayola had mentioned not being a fan of the decker rules, anyway, so I suspect those systems will not play a major part in whatever we might do.


I'm not sure how money works (is bug-city a sourcebook players are supposed to read up on? or GM only?) but I suspect that nobody will invest in credsticks or a high lifestyle at character creation, unless they have spare creds, or are committed to a concept in spite of the likely outcome.


I could get on board with this idea - or, if Krayola didn't necessarily need/want us to know one another beforehand, that could be just one of many excuses for a character to find himself there (and properly equipped).

I am Alive

Got a feeling its gonna be like that...

That will not be a problem. There will be resource restrictions during character creation, though I'm still hashing out the details as to exactly how that will work.


That'll be up to you guys to decide when you're figuring out your character histories. You can work together to integrate your backstories prior to the quarantine or not, I'll find a way to bring ya'll together even if you have completely divergent backgrounds.


If you're playing a long time resident of Chicago, you'll probably want to read up on the setting details in the book, since it's something your character would know. Everything else you probably wouldn't want to read to preserve suspense for yourself.

There is a certain logic to that. It makes knowing each other [at least a little] easyer, and gives a certain cohesion to the group at the begining. On the other hand, it makes sense for some of the locals to survive and join in with the points of resistance/tough people.

I just wanted to throw a few more things out there for digestion:
BeCKs V 2 I prefer this system of character creation the most, it leads to the most diverse (skill wise) characters.

I've also been a fan of Raygun's weapons found here.

BeCKS v2 will be an available option for character generation. Raygun's weapons are ridonkulously overpowered, so they will not be available in play as listed - if you want to use them just for flavor and match one of them up with the stats for an existing canon firearm, that's okay.