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Zolhex
So not only myself but one of my players who is a strong rules guy have looked (See Magus I was nice I didn't call you a rules lawyer oh nope wait yes I did sorry) spin.gif

Anywho on to the problem did the looking found nada thought maybe there might be mentor spirits that give this type of bonus but nope none do so thus the question?

Does the bonus from a mentor spirit for spellcasting , summoning , ect. , ect. also apply to the drain tests for said skill getting the bonus?

Or maybe something allong the lines of you can use the bonus to cast the spell or to resist the drain not both?

Thoughts? Ideas? some thing you found somewhere we didn't? please let us know.

Thanks.
Glyph
Mentor spirits add bonuses to using magical (and sometimes other) skills, not to Drain resistance. If it did the latter, it would be explicitly stated.

There are several options for improving Drain resistance, though. Fetish-limited spells, the focused concentration quality, and spellcasting foci can all be used to help soak Drain.
Marwynn
'Fraid not, the bonus is only applied for spellcasting unless specifically stated to be for Drain. And off the top of my head I can't recall a Mentor bonus just for drain.

But you know, no one is going to bust in on your game if you decide to allow the player to choose to apply the +spell dice as bonus drain resistance. Just like a focus you can let the player decide to apply it to the drain or the casting test.

hyzmarca
Bear provides bonus dice to resist all physical damage, including physical drain.
Zolhex
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Bear provides bonus dice to resist all physical damage, including physical drain.

Well sadly no where in the text does it say bear helps to resist physical damage from drain.

Of course it does not say it doesn't either it just says physical damage which could be read all physical damage but drain.

Which is the issue here none of the mentor spirits have anything that says yea or nay to drain.

None give any advantages or disadvantages to drain which leads to this idea:

Example +2 to spellcasting +2 to spirits of beast ok so you cast a spell all spells have drain there is no choice in this you must roll for drain so it is a side effect of casting a spell thus the idea of gaining the bonus from the mentor spirit.

Just my 2 nuyen's worth I have this question in with the powers that be to see what their take is on it and I think one of my players also e-mailed this question in to them so for now I'll just have to wait and see.

I am thinking it'll be left as a GM's call thus allowing for the difference in GMing styles.
Ol' Scratch
Damage and Drain are like Rectangles and Squares. The latter is always the former but the former isn't always the latter. If Drain were excluded by Bear's bonuses, it would be explicitly stated.
BattleJester
QUOTE
Damage and Drain are like Rectangles and Squares. The latter is always the former but the former isn't always the latter. If Drain were excluded by Bear's bonuses, it would be explicitly stated.


Though you are correct because of the way it is written, I would have to disagree. Given the flavor of Bear, I believe that they just forgot to say "+2 to Body for damage resistance tests," like they do for Bone Lacing and Bone Density Increase.

As for the question of the topic at hand:
"A magician gains bonus dice when acting or using Sorcery or Conjuring skills in accordance to the mentor’s ideals." (SR4 192)

Even though the statment just says Sorcery or Conjuring skills, I believe the flavor would allow the dice to also assist toward drain, meaning the bonus dice would act pretty much like Focus dice without breaking the rules in any sense.

But I do think that the "in accordance to the mentor's ideals" should not be overlooked. These bonus dice only come into play when you are doing just that.

I also think that a Weapon Focus' dice pool could be used for both offense and defense, even though it only speaks of using it for attacks in SR4. It's all about the "flavor." And then, it's all about what you think, since the rules are just guidelines.
toturi
QUOTE (BattleJester)
QUOTE
Damage and Drain are like Rectangles and Squares. The latter is always the former but the former isn't always the latter. If Drain were excluded by Bear's bonuses, it would be explicitly stated.


Though you are correct because of the way it is written, I would have to disagree. Given the flavor of Bear, I believe that they just forgot to say "+2 to Body for damage resistance tests," like they do for Bone Lacing and Bone Density Increase.

I'd disagree with that. It is precisely because of the way it is written that I'd say that it does give the bonus.
Jhaiisiin
Another thing to consider is that if the text was really supposed to say "+2 to Body for damage resistance tests," it probably would have been released as Errata by now.
Eryk the Red
I always assumed this is an unfortunate case of Shadowrun's overuse of the word 'Physical'. It's a type of spell, a type of damage, and a distinction between "physical" and "immaterial". So, if you wanted to be all "RAW is Law!" about it, that bonus should apply against any source of Physical damage, regardless of what it is (including drain from overcasting); it should also apply to damage resistance against any Physical spell (whether it causes Physical or Stun); and it should also apply to any source of damage that harms the physical body, regardless of damage type.

That's silly.

I assume they mean the third definition ('physical' means matter or energy causing harm to the body). To each his own.


Edit: I'm exaggerating a little. Figure I'd admit it before someone call me out on it. The bit about it referring specifically to Physical spells is a bit of a stretch. My point remains.
Buster
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin)
... it probably would have been released as Errata by now.

LOL. Timely and extensive errata releases? Synner, are you listening to this? biggrin.gif
Malachi
Take note that the text that stated Spellcasting Foci could be used to assist in resisting drain has been errata'd out. The "feeling" I'm getting from the rules is that Drain is something that should be assumed to be excluded unless explicitly stated.
Fortune
QUOTE (Malachi)
Take note that the text that stated Spellcasting Foci could be used to assist in resisting drain has been errata'd out.

The only Errata about Spellcasting Foci is this ...

QUOTE (Errata 1.5)
p. 191 Spellcasting Foci [4]
The second line should read: "These dice may be used to cast a spell more effectively as long as it of the category appropriate to the focus."


I believe the clarification is in reference to the specific category limitation (which was missing in the original printing). If you remove the ability of Spellcasting Foci to be used for Drain, they are almost useless when compared to even low level Power Foci, as this power is the one thing Power Foci do not add their dice to. They cost way too much (at least in Bonding cost) to be totally outclassed by something that doesn't cost all that much more.

Personally, I think the Errata needs an Errata. wink.gif
ThreeGee
QUOTE
If you remove the ability of Spellcasting Foci to be used for Drain, they are almost useless


Especially considering the limit of one roll, one focus. If you have a power focus the only thing you use your spellcasting foci for is resisting drain.
NightmareX
I always understood Mentor Spirit modifiers to apply to both casting/conjuring and resisting Drain.
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