Ronin, you played this yet? I expect the lowdown on it ASAP!
Full Version: Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising
I want to buy Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, because I does loves me some realistic tactical FPS face-shooty. But I don't know if it's any good, since there's no demo I can find, and I rarely trust reviews.
Ronin, you played this yet? I expect the lowdown on it ASAP!
Ronin, you played this yet? I expect the lowdown on it ASAP!
I don't know about OFP:DR but if you're interested in realistic tactical FPS, you might want to take a look at ArmA2 if you haven't done so already. I don't know if the bugs that crippled it at launch were corrected, but the demo was nice and I've heard good things about the full game.
I've got it. If you are in it for the single player game, it's probably not worth bothering with. And unless they fix whatever is wrong with multiplayer, it won't be worth borthing with, either.
General:
AI's LOS does not seem to be impeded by the grass, if you are officially spotted by the AI, they won't ahve any trouble shooting you if you are prone in the (tall) grass.
Squaddie command issuing thingy is slow and rather un-intuitive. (Republic Commando, of all games, is probably the best one I've played for easy to use squad commands)
Bug? prevents vehicle drivers from using mouselook, your view is stuck straight ahead.
Despite there being a lot of land modeled, the whole place seems very empty, in the they don't seem to have a lot going on. It looks like there's only ever two squads or so on each side in contact at any one time.
Engine looks nice, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of game to use it with.
Single player:
campaign is very short
You have no choices about what loadout you start with. This usually leads to you picking up a Chinese marksmans rifle and using it instead.
Almost all of your actual mission time is spent running somewhere.
The few missions that should fee like heavy combat missions don't, mostly because of the lack of enemy density. For a defend the village, you fave something like 6 or so fireteams that attack you from all directions and constantly respawn. But there's never more that the base number of guys on the map at onces.
Multi-player
Seem to be playnty of connection issues.
Ping times may not be reported correctly
Getting active server list sometimes doesn't seem to work
Joining a new can sometimes be difficult
General:
AI's LOS does not seem to be impeded by the grass, if you are officially spotted by the AI, they won't ahve any trouble shooting you if you are prone in the (tall) grass.
Squaddie command issuing thingy is slow and rather un-intuitive. (Republic Commando, of all games, is probably the best one I've played for easy to use squad commands)
Bug? prevents vehicle drivers from using mouselook, your view is stuck straight ahead.
Despite there being a lot of land modeled, the whole place seems very empty, in the they don't seem to have a lot going on. It looks like there's only ever two squads or so on each side in contact at any one time.
Engine looks nice, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of game to use it with.
Single player:
campaign is very short
You have no choices about what loadout you start with. This usually leads to you picking up a Chinese marksmans rifle and using it instead.
Almost all of your actual mission time is spent running somewhere.
The few missions that should fee like heavy combat missions don't, mostly because of the lack of enemy density. For a defend the village, you fave something like 6 or so fireteams that attack you from all directions and constantly respawn. But there's never more that the base number of guys on the map at onces.
Multi-player
Seem to be playnty of connection issues.
Ping times may not be reported correctly
Getting active server list sometimes doesn't seem to work
Joining a new can sometimes be difficult
Meh, I am sad to hear that, given that my two big choices (this and ArmA II) both seem crippled by awful bugs that will inhibit my ability to enjoy them.
Thank you for your assessment, though! You have definitely steered me away from purchasing it.
Thank you for your assessment, though! You have definitely steered me away from purchasing it.
QUOTE (Adarael @ Oct 7 2009, 03:09 AM) 
I want to buy Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, because I does loves me some realistic tactical FPS face-shooty. But I don't know if it's any good, since there's no demo I can find, and I rarely trust reviews.
Ronin, you played this yet? I expect the lowdown on it ASAP!
Ronin, you played this yet? I expect the lowdown on it ASAP!
I'm in the process of playing it through. I'd been considering writing a review upon completion.
Quick answer: on the whole "good" tactical FPS complete with bullet drop, best AI I've seen so far, death by bleeding out, and suppression fire. *Not* the same engine as the original Bohemia Interactive Operation Flashpoint, definitely different than ARMA and ARMA II.
On default difficulty slain teammates respawn at checkpoints, but this does not happen on hardcore difficulty.
Many new Chinese weapons. They look like they're FAMAS knockoffs. Everyone has nice new ballistic armor.
Does not keep track of round in chamber.
On the whole worth the money if you like tactical gaming, especially considering the alternative would be Call of Duty. I enjoy it very much.
EDIT: Lots of reviewers said there were bugs, but so far I haven't found any. Some reviewers complain they had trouble hitting/killing enemy but I gather they were always using full auto mode instead of semi-auto like you'd usually use in real life. You can't free look in the jeep but I didn't consider that a bug and it didn't prevent me from using jeeps effectively IMO. Jeeps can fishtail and/or spin out if you attempt to turn sharply at high speed which is awesome. If anything jeeps and hummers are "too powerful" in that if you drive erratically with them enemy soldiers have trouble hitting you.
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Oct 24 2009, 05:52 AM)
The Chinese assault rifle (and related variants) are supposed to be the QBA-95 which has been in service for more than 10 years now.
Thanks for your links. I learned something today, woohoo! First time I've ever seen them portrayed in a video game. I was pretty excited that a simulationistic style game finally portrayed OPFOR with something other than AK variants.
That sounds pretty unrealistic. OPFOR would never carry something other than an AK variant.
~J
~J
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 24 2009, 05:16 PM)
That sounds pretty unrealistic. OPFOR would never carry something other than an AK variant.
~J
~J
Heh, your post made me think that of all the firearms that I own, if I had to defend against a home invasion the one I'd most like to use would be my AK 47 with the bayonet fixed. A medium sized 30 cal cartridge, solid design with wood and metal, and a bayonet. What could be more versatile in a close indoor setting?
A home invasion by who? Zee Germans?
Old women.
Alternate answer: the Italians.
~J
Alternate answer: the Italians.
~J
QUOTE (Mr. Man @ Oct 25 2009, 12:10 PM)
A home invasion by who? Zee Germans?
Zombie invasion has always been my chief concern. It's why I have 8 30 round AK mags.
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Oct 25 2009, 11:24 AM)
Heh, your post made me think that of all the firearms that I own, if I had to defend against a home invasion the one I'd most like to use would be my AK 47 with the bayonet fixed. A medium sized 30 cal cartridge, solid design with wood and metal, and a bayonet. What could be more versatile in a close indoor setting?
Since the Kel-tec RFB seems to have finally had some copies made, I'd consider it's much shorter overall length to come in handy. Perfect thing for deterring zee Germans.
Double Post
Something I'd wondered about: how does bullpup design interact with bayonet use? Seems like it'd be a bit on the inconvenient side for that…
Edit: though some random people on the intarwebs seem to think it's a nonissue. Any thoughts on the matter?
~J
Edit: though some random people on the intarwebs seem to think it's a nonissue. Any thoughts on the matter?
~J
bayonets, like swords, are pretty much ceremonial at this point. if you find yourself that close, with a nonfunctioning rifle, you draw your sidearm and put a few 9mm rounds someplace it will hurt.
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 26 2009, 09:52 AM)
Something I'd wondered about: how does bullpup design interact with bayonet use? Seems like it'd be a bit on the inconvenient side for that…
Edit: though some random people on the intarwebs seem to think it's a nonissue. Any thoughts on the matter?
~J
Edit: though some random people on the intarwebs seem to think it's a nonissue. Any thoughts on the matter?
~J
Probably too short to make it a good bayonet.
My Mosin Nagant from the 1940s is too long to fit in my gun safe and is really, really heavy. That thing is like a damn pole arm when I put the triangular spike bayonet on the end. I need to train in goddamned greatweapons to know how to use it; I have to go to a Reinfaire or something.
Then I imagine something like a P90 with a knife stuck on the end and it just seems really pathetic in comparison.
QUOTE (Fix-it @ Oct 26 2009, 01:36 PM)
bayonets, like swords, are pretty much ceremonial at this point. if you find yourself that close, with a nonfunctioning rifle, you draw your sidearm and put a few 9mm rounds someplace it will hurt.
My post from another forum (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87647&highlight=bayonet+home+defense)
QUOTE
So, there are lots of people who like to talk about home defense.
...
But I've never heard/seen anyone talk about mounting a bayonet on their shotgun. Which I think is pretty surprising. I mean, why consider a reflex sight before you consider a bayonet on a shotgun or carbine at that kind of close range?
The way I see it, most people who are in the middle of being home invaded are probably going to be terrified and/or enraged, their hands will be shaking, they'll have adrenaline, and their families will be at risk for death, rape, robbery, etc. In a physically aroused state something like a bayonet would probably be very instinctive to use, very terrifying for the home invaders, and a very easy "solution" for what to do if you have a jam, misfeed, or an empty magazine. Some people counsel firearms n00bs to use a revolver instead of a semi-auto because it's supposedly too hard to tap, rack, and boom under stress, but what about a carbine with at 10-30 rounds in the magazine and a bayonet as well? That's even easier. Under extreme stress it would be a lot easier to charge with a bayonet than to do a speed reload if you don't have a lot of training. People also talk about all the training you need to turn a corner with a longarm so you can retain the weapon and so on, and again having a bayonet on your carbine or shotgun would make it considerably easier for you to carve up someone who happens to be close enough to attempt to grab your weapon. You also don't need to worry about blinding yourself with muzzle flash or stunning yourself by hearing a gunshot indoors with unprotected ears.
Besides, with all the rage and terror, on some emotional level, you'd think someone would want to rip open a body cavity with a bayonet and would do that better with little training than squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, control those shots, don't endanger the neighborhood with stray rounds. What I mean is, unless someone is a real dedicated marksman who has trained so much for rifle combat that their rifle skills are an innate part of them, I believe that they would have more of an emotional desire and instinctive proclivity to rip someone apart with a bayonet because that would be closer to the flight or fight survival reaction that is hardwired into all of us from birth.
The more I think about it, the more a bayonet sounds like a very sensible home-defense accessory. Why don't people ever discuss/market home defense bayonets?
...
But I've never heard/seen anyone talk about mounting a bayonet on their shotgun. Which I think is pretty surprising. I mean, why consider a reflex sight before you consider a bayonet on a shotgun or carbine at that kind of close range?
The way I see it, most people who are in the middle of being home invaded are probably going to be terrified and/or enraged, their hands will be shaking, they'll have adrenaline, and their families will be at risk for death, rape, robbery, etc. In a physically aroused state something like a bayonet would probably be very instinctive to use, very terrifying for the home invaders, and a very easy "solution" for what to do if you have a jam, misfeed, or an empty magazine. Some people counsel firearms n00bs to use a revolver instead of a semi-auto because it's supposedly too hard to tap, rack, and boom under stress, but what about a carbine with at 10-30 rounds in the magazine and a bayonet as well? That's even easier. Under extreme stress it would be a lot easier to charge with a bayonet than to do a speed reload if you don't have a lot of training. People also talk about all the training you need to turn a corner with a longarm so you can retain the weapon and so on, and again having a bayonet on your carbine or shotgun would make it considerably easier for you to carve up someone who happens to be close enough to attempt to grab your weapon. You also don't need to worry about blinding yourself with muzzle flash or stunning yourself by hearing a gunshot indoors with unprotected ears.
Besides, with all the rage and terror, on some emotional level, you'd think someone would want to rip open a body cavity with a bayonet and would do that better with little training than squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, control those shots, don't endanger the neighborhood with stray rounds. What I mean is, unless someone is a real dedicated marksman who has trained so much for rifle combat that their rifle skills are an innate part of them, I believe that they would have more of an emotional desire and instinctive proclivity to rip someone apart with a bayonet because that would be closer to the flight or fight survival reaction that is hardwired into all of us from birth.
The more I think about it, the more a bayonet sounds like a very sensible home-defense accessory. Why don't people ever discuss/market home defense bayonets?
Besides for that, even for someone who trains a lot, I think that bayonets are deadly, easy to use, very instinctive, and probably a great and versatile tool for any combat taking place indoors. People always talk about hypothetical scenarios where you shoot a knife-wielder who is 10 feet away with your handgun but he still jumps forward and guts you like a rainbow trout because you can. But what if you were shooting him repeatedly while ramming a rifle with a bayonet hard into his diaphram? You might actually be able to fling him back.
You'd be able to create some distance if you had a rifle with a rifle with a bayonet at the end. If a guy with a knife came at you and you didn't have a melee weapon you'd be at a very serious dis-advantage. But if you had a rifle with a bayonet, even if for some reason you couldn't shoot, it would be relatively easy to pivot to the right or left, check the knife hand, and counter cut somewhere, or just pivot out and attempt to cut the tendons on the knife hand. It would be much much easier and more likely to succeed if you had a spear type weapon than if you just had a weirdly shaped club or a firearm you weren't using as a club.
Similarly if someone wanted to try and tackle you and disarm you or something in close quarters it would be much harder to do if you could shoot him and carve him open like a Thanksgiving roast at the same time than if you could only shoot him and sort of attempt to poke him with the barrel.
I always felt personally that training in firearms was incomplete without lots of training in hand to hand combat. Having your rifle also be an edged melee weapon would just aid the smooth transition from one mode of combat to the other as needed.
I almost TL:DR'd that post, but I managed to slog through it. my response is the following:
Home defense != modern infantry combat.
a bayonet might indeed be practical on a home defense weapon, and leaving the legal implications aside, as any competent lawyer would absolutely gut you (har har) in court if you used one on his client,
machine guns, IEDs, RPGs, have all changed the face of infantry combat, and from my armchair, the bayonet has no place. if you end up that close while clearing rooms or something, you can club him with the stock of your rifle, which is still plenty effective.
not saying you shouldn't be carrying an edged weapon of some type, just not on the end of your rifle.
we invented guns for a reason; knives on the end of sticks wasn't always effective enough.
guns are now effective enough that you really don't need to take a step backward.
as for doing bayonet TRAINING in basic, for aggression and H2H stuff? sure. fine. just don't make it standard practice to fix bayonets and charge enemy positions. we did that in WWI, and there was a reason we stopped.
Home defense != modern infantry combat.
a bayonet might indeed be practical on a home defense weapon, and leaving the legal implications aside, as any competent lawyer would absolutely gut you (har har) in court if you used one on his client,
machine guns, IEDs, RPGs, have all changed the face of infantry combat, and from my armchair, the bayonet has no place. if you end up that close while clearing rooms or something, you can club him with the stock of your rifle, which is still plenty effective.
not saying you shouldn't be carrying an edged weapon of some type, just not on the end of your rifle.
we invented guns for a reason; knives on the end of sticks wasn't always effective enough.
guns are now effective enough that you really don't need to take a step backward.
as for doing bayonet TRAINING in basic, for aggression and H2H stuff? sure. fine. just don't make it standard practice to fix bayonets and charge enemy positions. we did that in WWI, and there was a reason we stopped.
I've found references to bayonet charges in Afghanistan (the operations going on now, mind you, not the Soviets).
~J
~J
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 27 2009, 10:54 AM)
I've found references to bayonet charges in Afghanistan (the operations going on now, mind you, not the Soviets).
~J
~J
Just what I was thinking about:
Those crazy Scots.
Now, in all fairness, it's remarked upon because it's, well, remarkable. So it's still true that such actions aren't terribly common nowadays. It still happens, but when it does it's noteworthy.
QUOTE (Fix-it @ Oct 26 2009, 11:53 PM)
a bayonet might indeed be practical on a home defense weapon, and leaving the legal implications aside, as any competent lawyer would absolutely gut you (har har) in court if you used one on his client,
I agree that a bayonet would have negative attributes in the legal aspects of home defense, but it wouldn't be an automatic "man storms your house with a machine pistol looking to rape your wife in front of your kids, but you killed him with a bayonet so all of a sudden everything is on you" and a lot of how a jury would take that if it went to court would depend on the town and other circumstances. For example if a petite woman ended up using a bayonet to kill a gangbanger who was invading her home.
Outside of a home defense setting hand to hand combat will always have a place. It's terrific for building up physical strength and aggression. Unforseen circumstances where two people bump into each other will always happen. And knives are really, really effective at close range. If hand to hand combat was totally irrelevant the military wouldn't be spending money to overhaul and create new hand to hand cirriculums.
EDIT: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/10/army...erstar_100408w/
QUOTE
“He was fixin’ to shoot me and there’s no way I could have shot him first, so I just got in front of his weapon ... and he fired it off right next to my face,” Gibson told Army Times. “I tackled him to the ground and grabbed hold of his weapon ... and I started hollering for help. While I was doing that he ripped my helmet off.”
Before help could arrive, Gibson was in a full-scale hand-to-hand fight with the man, who was on his back and tenaciously fighting to get control of his AK47 assault rifle.
There was no room to maneuver in the ditch, and Gibson gained superiority by getting on top of the man and wrestling his rifle away. The man grabbed Gibson’s rifle, which was slung around his neck, and tried to keep Gibson from shooting him.
“He’s got my weapon, so I start to hit him in the face,” Gibson said. “He wasn’t trying to aim my weapon at me, he was in no position to do something like that.”
While Gibson was throwing punches, he could feel the man’s hand reaching down to “grab a knife or something to attack me and then he told me in English he said ‘bomb’ and I realized he had a bomb on him and he was trying to clock himself off.”
“It definitely dropped my morale, but it didn’t slow me down or anything,” he said.
“I kept control of his hand and he ... used his foot to push my chest plate up into my throat and it was beginning to choke me so I let all my weight down on him and I hit him in the face as hard as I could and knocked him out for just a second.”
With no time to waste, Gibson opened enough space between himself and the man to shoot.
“I buried my weapon into his gut and fired one off and he hollered and then that’s when I got off of him and neutralized him,” Gibson said.
Before help could arrive, Gibson was in a full-scale hand-to-hand fight with the man, who was on his back and tenaciously fighting to get control of his AK47 assault rifle.
There was no room to maneuver in the ditch, and Gibson gained superiority by getting on top of the man and wrestling his rifle away. The man grabbed Gibson’s rifle, which was slung around his neck, and tried to keep Gibson from shooting him.
“He’s got my weapon, so I start to hit him in the face,” Gibson said. “He wasn’t trying to aim my weapon at me, he was in no position to do something like that.”
While Gibson was throwing punches, he could feel the man’s hand reaching down to “grab a knife or something to attack me and then he told me in English he said ‘bomb’ and I realized he had a bomb on him and he was trying to clock himself off.”
“It definitely dropped my morale, but it didn’t slow me down or anything,” he said.
“I kept control of his hand and he ... used his foot to push my chest plate up into my throat and it was beginning to choke me so I let all my weight down on him and I hit him in the face as hard as I could and knocked him out for just a second.”
With no time to waste, Gibson opened enough space between himself and the man to shoot.
“I buried my weapon into his gut and fired one off and he hollered and then that’s when I got off of him and neutralized him,” Gibson said.
A good story, and then he has to go and ruin it. "Neutralize"? Plusungood euphemism.
(Perfectly good in situations where time is of the essence and it doesn't really matter what was done to the target as long as it's no longer a threat, but when telling the story to a reporter or someone like that there's simply no place for such things)
~J
(Perfectly good in situations where time is of the essence and it doesn't really matter what was done to the target as long as it's no longer a threat, but when telling the story to a reporter or someone like that there's simply no place for such things)
~J
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