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ker'ion
Is there a Quality covering surgical reconstruction or do I have to pay nuyen.gif for it at chargen?
He's an escaped clone and wants to change his looks to cut down on the chances of being caught.

Qualities thus far:
Gnome (25) - We represent the lollipop gkaa... *sounds of someone's head exploding*
Drake (65) - Oriental drakoform. *cue the Chinese music*
Escaped Clone (5) - What happens when you mix a gnome with a dragon? Dracoform gnomes!
Erased (10) - This is not the gnome you're looking for. And why are you even looking for a gnome?
Soy Allergy, Common, Mild (+10) - Easier to keep track of the clones if they need real food.
Flashbacks, escaped clone (+5) - Not the lab, anywhere but there. NOOOOO!!!!!
Paranoia, escaped clone (+10) - Do you work for the Lab? LIAR! I know you work for that bastard! Frag you!
Wanted, escaped clone (+10) - You'll never take me alive, White Coat!
Daylen
Theres only one man who would dare give me Raspberry!
ker'ion
QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 9 2010, 07:49 PM) *
[strike]Theres only one man who would dare give me Raspberry![/strike]
I don't think he's as worried about Lone Star as he is Saeder Krupp.
He's from Europe, they're from Europe. They're ran by a dragon.
I think it'll work.
Daylen
HEY, you ninja edited me!
CollateralDynamo
To answer the actual question...I think you need to just pay for it. Cosmetic modification isn't too expensive by RAW, so it is a more cost efficient solution anyways.
Professor Evil Overlord
Personally, as a GM, I wouldn't charge for cosmetic surgery that you had before the game started. I'd just consider it a background element and part of how your PC slipped into the shadows. Of course, this is assuming it carried no mechanical bonus and was just a function of your background.

If you wanted the surgery during play I'd make you pay for it with cash if it was a one time thing. If you wanted to constantly be changing, say before each run, I'd work it into lifestyle costs just to save on book keeping.

Keep in mind that changing your appearance makes escaped clone less useful (your DNA will match, but your appearance won't).
Caadium
Pg. 61 of Augmentation has rules regarding different types of cosmetic surgery, including costs and essence reduction.
wind_in_the_stones
I agree with Prof. EO about not charging for it. It's just background stuff. Even if there is a surgeon out there who knows what you really looked like...

However... You're a drake gnome. How much is that surgery going to help? And you forgot the distinctive style quality. nyahnyah.gif
Caadium
The only reason I'd consider charging a PC for that, and the reason I mentioned the cosmetic surgery rules, is because of the specific character background.

A magically active clone that has been surgically augmented either needs to limit it to minor, aka no essence cost, procedures or take the magic hit. This balances out how you try to hide from your past (which did give you quality points) IMHO.
ker'ion
QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 9 2010, 10:21 PM) *
I agree with Prof. EO about not charging for it. It's just background stuff. Even if there is a surgeon out there who knows what you really looked like...

However... You're a drake gnome. How much is that surgery going to help? And you forgot the distinctive style quality. nyahnyah.gif
I've already got my 35 points of Negatives.
And you can't tell a normal gnome from a drake-gnome unless you can peer into the spirit world. Then you see his dracoform.

And it's only a couple of grand.
The GM said I had to pay for it with my starting cash (I've got the max starting without picking up Born Rich, since I can't with my background).

But at 33 1/2 inches tall, I look like a five or six year old human kid after surgery. A very buff 6 year old, but a six year old none the less.
Stingray
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 10 2010, 07:11 AM) *
I've already got my 35 points of Negatives.
And you can't tell a normal gnome from a drake-gnome unless you can peer into the spirit world. Then you see his dracoform.

And it's only a couple of grand.
The GM said I had to pay for it with my starting cash (I've got the max starting without picking up Born Rich, since I can't with my background).

But at 33 1/2 inches tall, I look like a five or six year old human kid after surgery. A very buff 6 year old, but a six year old none the less.

Distinctive Style-negative quality what you get from gnome-metatype PC does not count againts
35 Bp negative quality limit..
Aerospider
QUOTE (Stingray @ Feb 10 2010, 09:02 AM) *
Distinctive Style-negative quality what you get from gnome-metatype PC does not count againts
35 Bp negative quality limit..

Correct. In fact, you don't even get the BP bonus for it.
Dahrken
One little observation : according to Augmentation, the Awakened qualities of a person/creature are not shared by clones, so making your character both a drake and a clone is pushing things quite a bit.
darthmord
Be that as it may, there's no game rule (I know of) that specifies a clone cannot be magically active / awakened.
wind_in_the_stones
But isn't Drake a race? Which would make a clone of a drake also a drake?

And also make a non-human drake a stretch, as far as the rules are concerned. Works in my book, though.
Oehler the Black
QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 10 2010, 09:58 PM) *
But isn't Drake a race? Which would make a clone of a drake also a drake?

And also make a non-human drake a stretch, as far as the rules are concerned. Works in my book, though.

According to the Runner's Companion on page 74, the drake quality is chosen after metatype selection and does not count against the 35 BP limit for the purposes of selecting positive qualities. I would assume this means the quality can be chosen regardless of metatype. But technically unless Saeder-Krump has cracked some meta-genetic secret to promoting Awakened clones, it would be very unlikely for a clone to ever manifest the drake quality, regardless of what race the original source genetic material was from.

Personally I'd say run with it, should provide plenty of plot hooks. Just remember to be careful walking around in public, without the Masking metamagic anything duel-natured or astral perciving will spot you like the proverbial elephant in the room.
wind_in_the_stones
So drakes occur by random expression?
CollateralDynamo
From what I've seen in the fluff drakes have two different ways of coming to be. Either they are created by a great dragon (which is exceedingly rare in the sixth world), or they spontaneously generate. Those that appear spontaneously are most likely expressing the metagene from back in the previous age of magic when they were turned into a drake by a great dragon...but it was so long ago that for all practical purposes you can say they appeared "at random".
Eimi
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 9 2010, 10:11 PM) *
I've already got my 35 points of Negatives.
And you can't tell a normal gnome from a drake-gnome unless you can peer into the spirit world. Then you see his dracoform.

And it's only a couple of grand.
The GM said I had to pay for it with my starting cash (I've got the max starting without picking up Born Rich, since I can't with my background).

But at 33 1/2 inches tall, I look like a five or six year old human kid after surgery. A very buff 6 year old, but a six year old none the less.


Actually, at 33 & 1/2 inches tall, you're about as tall as the average...two year old human. And a below-average one in terms of growth percentile.

Seriously, that's REALLY small. Small enough that it'd be hard to pass for human without some radical biosculpting, behaving like a completely harmless barely verbal child (even moreso than a five or six year old) and having an adult-looking 'prop' to be your 'escort' wherever you go in public. But on the other hand, you'd look REALLY harmless.
Dahrken
The main trouble I see with the concept is that you can expect a really hard time shadowrunning.

For exemple you're likely to be refused entry to the classical "Meet Mt Johnson in a night-club", even with a decoy "parent". In most places you cannot rent a place, drive a vehicle or shop physically without someone else to visually hold your hand...

Also many shadowrunners may simply refuse to work with you unless you bring something really unique and extremely useful for the runbecause you're extremely noticeable. Finding infos "the gruff orc with milspec shoes and lethal cyberware" in Seattle will net you most of the time "Which one ? There's hundreds of them", but a 6-year old 'runner ? Throw in the dragon aura for those who can see it, and there is exactly ONE match in the whole northern america, yourself...
ker'ion
Ok, I'll up him to max height, which is 100 cm or 3 feet 3 & 1/3 inches, so I can look like a short five or six year old.

And I'll just have a drone attend the meeting if I can't get in.
Or I could build a drone that I can drive or fly and come in it.
Dahrken
A question : what function in a shadowrunner's team do you plan for him to fulfill ? Some can make the limitations of the concept even more crippling than they already are.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Feb 12 2010, 06:48 AM) *
A question : what function in a shadowrunner's team do you plan for him to fulfill ? Some can make the limitations of the concept even more crippling than they already are.


This.

If being able to fly and have 4/4 hardened armor with enhanced senses isn't going to be an asset over and above being a gnome mage* or gnome adept* then you might want to drop the "drake" bit as you effectively spent 60 points to do nothing.

It appears to me that you went out of your way to create the least effective possible shadowrun character ever.

*Or are you going to go "magic, what magic?" despite being an awakened sueprnatural dragon? If your magic ever falls to 0 (which means any cyber/bio/gene augmentations) you lose access to your drake form. Not that augmentations help in dracoform anyway.

Edit:
Also, Drake is 60 points, not 65.
Dahrken
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 12 2010, 03:18 PM) *
Also, Drake is 60 points, not 65.

I checked in the Companion, it's 65.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Feb 12 2010, 12:53 PM) *
I checked in the Companion, it's 65.


I'm AFB, I must be mis-remembering.

Carry on.
ker'ion
I'm planning on a drone rigger/ demolitionist.
I'm not sure if taking the adept quality and bumping up his magic stat will ruin this, but I'm going to check the point costs.
Draco18s
...
............
Rigger/Demolitions!?

There's no point in being a drake at all if that's the route you're going.

Drakes get free magic (which, admittedly, can't be raised except by becoming a mage or adept), cyber/bio doesn't work in dracoform (genetech is questionable), lowers your magic (see previous point), you're not already a mage/adept and have maxed out your quality expenditures, and all those cool toys you get for being in drake form you're not taking advantage of.

Unless you're going to stip naked every time you plant a bomb just so you can have 2 extra dice (which you could have gotten via cyber or bio had you not been a drake, or gotten via mage/adept via spells/powers).

I honestly don't see the point.
Daylen
drake rigger demolitions... why?! why be something really cool then be in a role where it doesnt matter?
Draco18s
QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 12 2010, 08:21 PM) *
drake rigger demolitions... why?! why be something really cool then be in a role where it doesnt matter?


Echos my thoughts. Which is why my character is a drake infiltrator with SURGE for more reasons to be naked (go dynamic camo skin!)

I looked at every bonus there was to being a drake and went "where would these assets be most helpful? How can I get more in the same vein?"
Eimi
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 12 2010, 02:16 AM) *
Ok, I'll up him to max height, which is 100 cm or 3 feet 3 & 1/3 inches, so I can look like a short five or six year old.

And I'll just have a drone attend the meeting if I can't get in.
Or I could build a drone that I can drive or fly and come in it.


I'm just saying, at that height, that's two year old size. Even the smallest five or six year old would be around 39 inches tall. And they'd be at the point of dwarfism (the medical condition in humans, not the race), not able to pass for normal to anyone who's ever seen human children before.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, really, I'm known for my "out there" concepts. I'm all for it. I'm just saying that's what the data presents, and this is from 1977, let alone almost a hundred years later. Even a chronically malnourished barrens kid would be almost impossible to be that small...human development simply doesn't work that way.

Pediatric growth charts
Daylen
drake infiltrator... sounds cool. not sure how a drake would have SURGE, maybe I dont know what it is. Possible as I'm still in 3rd.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 12 2010, 10:07 PM) *
drake infiltrator... sounds cool. not sure how a drake would have SURGE, maybe I dont know what it is. Possible as I'm still in 3rd.


SURGE was a Year of the Comet thing that made "furries" and "catpeople." There's a whole host of new "metagenetic" qualities you can pick up to design your own genetic deviatiants. Such as: extravagant skin color (blue, purple, orange, red...), extravagant eyes (purple, slitted, etc), radar sense (aka echolocation), astral hazing (it's a negative quality, trust me, even if the effect is overwhelmingly beneficial), ears, beak, tail (vestigial, balance, prehensile*), claws, and a bunch of others.

My drake picked up dynamic camouflage skin, which basically makes him a gecko, albinism,** extravagant eyes and something else I'm not recalling at the moment.^

I figure that SURGE qualities would apply to both forms (I see no reason why not), so being in dracoform has serious advantages over the elf body (+2 AGL, flight, 4/4 armor,^^ enhanced senses, etc. etc.) including the fact that he'd be naked anyway, which gives +2 dice (4 when stationary) to infiltration from the camo skin.

*For the life of me I had a hard time remembering this word as I went to type it, thank god for google and knowing dolphin anatomy a little too well

**Even though he changes color, you can still have the downsides of being an albino, such as as that allergy to sunlight and a "default" skin color of white.

^Cat-like? Was that a metagenetic one? Bonus dice to Infiltration tests IIRC.

^^I picked up no worn armor at all. Just basic clothing.
Dahrken
There is an extra glitch to your idea : if you shift to a drake form, you can no longer use implants or even a 'trode net, and you cannot speak.

This means that you're now limited to controlling your drones through their pilot and manual operation (not even voice command !) of your comlink... assuming the comlink is Drake-adapted (in a pinch I guess a Troll-adapted one would fit the need for oversized controls but it would be BIG and look quite out of place on the character when he is not shifted).

Why did you absolutely want to make him a Drake ? I fail to see what this would add to the concept of an escaped, paranoid clone gnome rigger in hidding and burns A LOT of points.

Think about it : the character is tracked AND paranoid, is he going to Shift when he knows this will makes him much easier to locate for those guys in white coats looking for him ?
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Feb 13 2010, 12:47 AM) *
This means that you're now limited to controlling your drones through their pilot and manual operation (not even voice command !) of your comlink... assuming the comlink is Drake-adapted (in a pinch I guess a Troll-adapted one would fit the need for oversized controls but it would be BIG and look quite out of place on the character when he is not shifted).


My gm has declared that I need to swap contact lenses if I'm going to be using any AR that way. But so far I haven't been swapping forms at any point where it needs to happen instantly (eg. middle of combat). The rest of it is pretty much handwaved.
Dahrken
Well, I was a bit pessimistic didn't think about that option.

He could probably do with a google/glove (or lenses/gloves) interface (Drake-adapted obviously, which is definitvely not easy to find and a big pointer for anybody hunting him). But AR-only and no DNI commands means he would be a pretty slow rigger which kinda defeats the point of rigging.

Also I hope they plan to have a decent hacker or TM on the team to protect his assets from unwanted interference, otherwise his drones are not going to be his for long - with all the points used by the Gnome metatype and the Drake quality and no implants I don't think he could manage to cover that angle by himself.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Feb 13 2010, 03:47 AM) *
He could probably do with a google/glove (or lenses/gloves) interface (Drake-adapted obviously, which is definitvely not easy to find and a big pointer for anybody hunting him). But AR-only and no DNI commands means he would be a pretty slow rigger which kinda defeats the point of rigging.


My infiltrator isn't hunted and has the background (if not the skill points*) to have modified his own equipment. Plus he's not a hacker (basic comlink and no programs), the only hacking he does is through hardware consoles.

*Hardware 1? biggrin.gif But hey, I did actually buy a nexus for his magical lodge.
Dahrken
I was talking about the OP's character, not your infiltrator.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Feb 13 2010, 04:05 AM) *
I was talking about the OP's character, not your infiltrator.


Yes, I know. I was making a comparison to my character. My character doesn't have to worry about those problems because I knew they'd be problems.

Note: I've been at work for 19 hours strait now, apologies if I'm not entirely lucid.
ker'ion
Okay, I think I'm punting the Dracoform idea out the window as it seems to be more of a hindrance for a rigger and will give me 65 more points to work with.

And according to those pediatric growth charts, average for a 100 cm European human is a bit older than 3 & 1/2, with the shorter kids (5th percentile) being 100 cm at 5. So he could look like a short 5 year old.
Draco18s
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 13 2010, 06:29 AM) *
So he could look like a short 5 year old.


Let me refer you to this:

QUOTE
(5th percentile)


That's really uncommon.
ker'ion
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 13 2010, 05:49 AM) *
That's really uncommon.
But not unheard of.
Draco18s
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 13 2010, 07:31 AM) *
But not unheard of.


While true, the whole point of being a criminal is to be inconspicuous. Having an appearance that stands out is generally not a good thing.

Being a "child" does stick out, but being the "really short child" stands out even more.
Eimi
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 13 2010, 06:09 AM) *
While true, the whole point of being a criminal is to be inconspicuous. Having an appearance that stands out is generally not a good thing.

Being a "child" does stick out, but being the "really short child" stands out even more.


5th percentile is very uncommon, but not freakishly so. It'd be, like, the smallest kid in your class, maybe even your school, rather than "gets a spot on a daytime talk show for being such an aberration". Enough to attract some more attention than typical, but not dramatically so. Children are hard to stat out accurately for this reason, because such a small difference in numbers can make such a large difference between normal and abnormal. Far more so than adults. Naturally, this makes gnomes (or other non-human beings) trying to pass themselves off as human children harder to do well, too.

But yes, 100 cm is a lot easier to work with than 85 or so. That 15 cm makes a huge difference in that height range.
ker'ion
And with the plastic surgery, he intentionally went for a babyface.

As for getting around in public, he tends to run around in his drone, so no one will see his face except for a few people.
All they see is a big black drone flying about 50 feet off of the ground with a trideo feed.
Daylen
why be ashamed of being a gnome? why hide it? I'd pimp it out with long pointy curly shoes a red flowing cape and a big pointy hat.
ker'ion
Because he's hiding from a Great Dragon?
Draco18s
QUOTE (ker'ion @ Feb 14 2010, 12:22 AM) *
Because he's hiding from a Great Dragon?


You can't hide from great dragons, if they want to find you, they'll find you.
Oehler the Black
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 13 2010, 11:29 PM) *
You can't hide from great dragons, if they want to find you, they'll find you.

And probably eat you.
ker'ion
Ok.
He thinks he's hiding from a Great Dragon.

I could go with more humanesque, but still kind of gnomely looking.
Dahrken
QUOTE (Eimi @ Feb 13 2010, 11:27 PM) *
But yes, 100 cm is a lot easier to work with than 85 or so. That 15 cm makes a huge difference in that height range.

You still have the problem of weight. With an average weight of 37 kg, this would put him on par with the 5% heaviest 8-year olds, so more than a little bit on the chubby side.

He would probably having an easier time passing for an adolescent dwarf rather than a human child, and this would grant him more personnal interaction options.

Running around in a freaking flying drone is likely to generate several additionnal complications.

First, it's expensive. Unless it's some kind of dirigible (slow, hard to maneuver and BIG - think tanker trailer size, to lift 30 kg of gnome you need 25.000 liters of hydrogen or 27.000 liters of helium) this means powered hovering and this suck up a lot of energy, far more than a ground vehicule of comparable size and performance.

Second don't expect to be allowed into most places riding inside it - if it fits though the door...

Finally interacting though video is likely to generate a lot of mistrust. Who are you really talking to ? Is someone even inside, or is it just a remote projection ?
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